Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #206

[SouthEnd]

I'm not sure the defense didn't ask for an evaluation.<modsnip>

My recollection is that the P was asking for mental health assessment / for it to be shared with the P, during their rebuttal and after D made the first FM stating how bad his mental health was, but the D never requested one. ...could someone dig NM's rebuttal, because I am too weak for such a task...

All MOO

 

[Simply Caustic]

It’s my personal opinion that RA’s distress upon receiving legal mail (perhaps discovery?) is similar to many defendants I have interviewed whilst in custody (criminal paralegal). They have very little idea what is going on “in the real world” as it’s called in jail, and learning some of what they’re facing - or what they didn’t know was known - can be stressful, scary, maybe even ruinous depending upon the contents of the information they received. This is IME and IMO, but I think it’s a natural progression to want to confess if you feel the weight of the pros case is much heavier than expected. JMO

 

[SouthEnd]

It’s my personal opinion that RA’s distress upon receiving legal mail (perhaps discovery?) is similar to many defendants I have interviewed whilst in custody,

Is it the same reactions, whether they are eventually found guilty or not, or does it sway one way more than the other? Sorry, pure curiosity on my part.

 

[dub]

I don’t know- because if you discount the bullet (which without hearing all the testimony I could personally go either way) then nothing ties BG or RA to the killings - even if RA=BG -

Asking who else could have done it? Isn’t the same thing as proving guilt - it’s more an argument from silence- no one saw the killer(s) so therefore there wasn’t anyone else and it had to be the guy that people did see- that is not exactly lock tight BARD - to me- moo

There is way, way more to it than “it had to be the guy that people did see”.

But also to be clear I’m not in the camp that thinks the case so far is lock tight BARD, even though I am just about 100% sure RA did it.

I feel like if this went to the jury at this exact moment it would be hung at something like 9 guilty/3 not.

 

[CamilleBSP]

If there was a competency assessment asked for, it would be part of court record. There was none asked for.

MOO

I'm not keeping an eye on the record, so thanks for confirming that!

 

[steeltowngirl]

But one could argue that a crazy person would say they’re not crazy, and he’s just repeating what others have said to him.

“Crazy people don't know they're crazy. I know I'm crazy, therefore I'm not crazy, isn't that crazy?”​

― Captain Jack Sparrow

 

[ItCantRainAllTheTime]

Anyone know if RA said where he went after leaving the bridge that day? Sorry if it’s been mentioned, I’m trying to keep up with the pace of the thread and with my toddler so I might have missed it

 

[SouthEnd]

Anyone know if RA said where he went after leaving the bridge that day? Sorry if it’s been mentioned, I’m trying to keep up with the pace of the thread and with my toddler so I might have missed it

Nope RA and his before arrest life remains curiously absent from the opening statement and all of the filings the DT has made. We will have to wait and see.

Moo

 

[steeltowngirl]

Anyone know if RA said where he went after leaving the bridge that day? Sorry if it’s been mentioned, I’m trying to keep up with the pace of the thread and with my toddler so I might have missed it

We have not yet heard where he was that night.

Welcome to Websleuths @ItCantRainAllTheTime

 

[technicallymissing]

Catching up on today… my biggest question to anyone who thinks there was a 2nd person present at the murders- why would RA not have given them up by now? Genuinely, what is the reasoning there?

Absolutely nothing we've heard about RA before arrest or whilst in prison suggests to me he is stoic or "noble" enough to take the fall for someone. If he’s distressed enough in prison to be (allegedly) faking psychiatric symptoms, spreading feces around his cell, eating paper, feeling that the only chance he has to be reunited with his family is in heaven and begging God for forgiveness, being heard repeatedly begging his wife and mother not to abandon him "no matter what he's done", etc., why on earth would he not flip on whoever is supposed to have been there with him after two YEARS? Does it all just come down to the idea that he's being threatened by a cult/conspiracy and therefore scared into silence..?

I’m being serious, I’m very curious to understand the train of thought. I understand the crime scene is odd etc., I understand the feeling that there has to be a missing piece here somewhere. I'm specifically and only interested in why RA would be staying silent if there was a 2nd party rather than cut a deal.

eta: "Because RA simply had nothing to do with the murders" is not at all realistic at this point and not a real answer, jmo, but thanks to those of you who are sharing your thoughts, appreciate the discussion regardless.

 

[Simply Caustic]

Is it the same reactions, whether they are eventually found guilty or not, or does it sway one way more than the other? Sorry, pure curiosity on my part.

IME so many cases are plead out before trial that I couldn’t say.

 

[oviedo]

Ha! I guess you’re off the fence then. I was never on it, so although I’m happy to see stuff like this, I want more specific ones that leave no doubt in the mind of the jury.

I just see counter arguments there.

I’m waiting for -details only known to the killer - early on before discovery was served ..
JMO

 

[SouthEnd]

Catching up on today… my biggest question to anyone who thinks there was a 2nd person present at the murders- why would RA not have given them up by now? Genuinely, what is the reasoning there?

Absolutely nothing we've heard about RA before arrest or whilst in prison suggests to me he is stoic or "noble" enough to take the fall for someone. If he’s distressed enough in prison to be (allegedly) faking psychiatric symptoms, spreading feces around his cell, eating paper, feeling that the only chance he has to be reunited with his family is in heaven and begging God for forgiveness, being heard repeatedly begging his wife and mother not to abandon him "no matter what he's done", etc., why on earth would he not flip on whoever is supposed to have been there with him after two YEARS? Does it just come down to the idea that he's being threatened by a cult and therefore scared into silence..?

I’m being serious, I’m very curious to understand the train of thought. I understand the crime scene is odd etc., I understand the feeling that there has to be a missing piece here somewhere. I'm specifically and only interested in why RA would be staying silent if there was a 2nd party rather than cut a deal.

It is not my belief, but I think they think - that there's an all powerful conspiracy that has scared RA into silence. It was even alleged in the FM, that nefarious forces in prison were forcing RA to take the fall. Personally, I don't buy it, but from following SM that seems to be the vibe. JMO

 

[rez125]

Catching up on today… my biggest question to anyone who thinks there was a 2nd person present at the murders- why would RA not have given them up by now? Genuinely, what is the reasoning there?

Absolutely nothing we've heard about RA before arrest or whilst in prison suggests to me he is stoic or "noble" enough to take the fall for someone. If he’s distressed enough in prison to be (allegedly) faking psychiatric symptoms, spreading feces around his cell, eating paper, feeling that the only chance he has to be reunited with his family is in heaven and begging God for forgiveness, being heard repeatedly begging his wife and mother not to abandon him "no matter what he's done", etc., why on earth would he not flip on whoever is supposed to have been there with him after two YEARS? Does it just come down to the idea that he's being threatened by a cult and therefore scared into silence..?

I’m being serious, I’m very curious to understand the train of thought. I understand the crime scene is odd etc., I understand the feeling that there has to be a missing piece here somewhere. I'm specifically and only interested in why RA would be staying silent if there was a 2nd party rather than cut a deal.

Maybe because he wasn't involved.

 

[CamilleBSP]

Catching up on today… my biggest question to anyone who thinks there was a 2nd person present at the murders- why would RA not have given them up by now? Genuinely, what is the reasoning there?

Absolutely nothing we've heard about RA before arrest or whilst in prison suggests to me he is stoic or "noble" enough to take the fall for someone. If he’s distressed enough in prison to be (allegedly) faking psychiatric symptoms, spreading feces around his cell, eating paper, feeling that the only chance he has to be reunited with his family is in heaven and begging God for forgiveness, being heard repeatedly begging his wife and mother not to abandon him "no matter what he's done", etc., why on earth would he not flip on whoever is supposed to have been there with him after two YEARS? Does it just come down to the idea that he's being threatened by a cult and therefore scared into silence..?

I’m being serious, I’m very curious to understand the train of thought. I understand the crime scene is odd etc., I understand the feeling that there has to be a missing piece here somewhere. I'm specifically and only interested in why RA would be staying silent if there was a 2nd party rather than cut a deal.

More than likely because he's simply innocent.

 

[ItCantRainAllTheTime]

We have not yet heard where he was that night.

Welcome to Websleuths @ItCantRainAllTheTime

Thank you!

 

[MrsWatson]

If there was a competency assessment asked for, it would be part of court record. There was none asked for.

MOO

BBM

And yet his defense team has stressed so often how terrible his metal health was during that time. If it was such a distressing concern to them, why wouldn't they demand an independent evaluation? If he was that mentally ill, wouldn't his defense team (and his family) be completely alarmed that he wasn't be provided for mentally during his incarceration and have filed motions to have him examined by a neutral party?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Catching up on today… my biggest question to anyone who thinks there was a 2nd person present at the murders- why would RA not have given them up by now? Genuinely, what is the reasoning there?

Absolutely nothing we've heard about RA before arrest or whilst in prison suggests to me he is stoic or "noble" enough to take the fall for someone. If he’s distressed enough in prison to be (allegedly) faking psychiatric symptoms, spreading feces around his cell, eating paper, feeling that the only chance he has to be reunited with his family is in heaven and begging God for forgiveness, being heard repeatedly begging his wife and mother not to abandon him "no matter what he's done", etc., why on earth would he not flip on whoever is supposed to have been there with him after two YEARS? Does it all just come down to the idea that he's being threatened by a cult/conspiracy and therefore scared into silence..?

I’m being serious, I’m very curious to understand the train of thought. I understand the crime scene is odd etc., I understand the feeling that there has to be a missing piece here somewhere. I'm specifically and only interested in why RA would be staying silent if there was a 2nd party rather than cut a deal.

eta: "Because RA simply had nothing to do with the murders" is not at all realistic at this point and not a real answer, jmo, but thanks to those of you who are sharing your thoughts, appreciate the discussion regardless.

Maybe he’d figure he’d be going to prison anyhow, and if he flipped on someone they’d see to it that his life in prison was a living hell. Or go after his family.

jmo

 

[iamshadow21]

BBM

And yet his defense team has stressed so often how terrible his metal health was during that time. If it was such a distressing concern to them, why wouldn't they demand an independent evaluation? If he was that mentally ill, wouldn't his defense team (and his family) be completely alarmed that he wasn't be provided for mentally during his incarceration and have filed motions to have him examined by a neutral party?

I think the only inference that makes sense is they had good reason to believe that an independent assessment would conclude that RA was competent. They had nothing to lose and everything to gain if RA was found incompetent. It would delay the trial until competency was restored, possibly indefinitely, depending on his response to treatment.

MOO

 

[Deleted member 296739]

There is way, way more to it than “it had to be the guy that people did see”.

But also to be clear I’m not in the camp that thinks the case so far is lock tight BARD, even though I am just about 100% sure RA did it.

I feel like if this went to the jury at this exact moment it would be hung at something like 9 guilty/3 not.

Agreed- to both the hung jury and that’s there’s a lot more to the story- it’s not as tight of a case as I was thinking it would be- and not BARD at this point- moo