Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #206

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1851277234750783740

 

[Bergmann]

If RA is going to be judged as guilty regardless of the decision of the jury I really struggle as to what the point of the trial is at all for some.

I'm personally not convinced whatsoever by the state's case but I do give the prosecutor a lot of credit for how he's carried himself so far in the trial and done a good job IMO. Also he hasn't merely kept repeating that RA is guilty ad nauseum and insisted 'but it has to be him' - he has tried to put a case on and explain the logic of his opinion even if I think he's been let down by the original investigation to be able to back this up.

He's also avoided falling into the trap of bickering with defense etc.

I don't have to agree with him but I do think he has done a professional job.

All JMO

 

[justtrish]

They said there was no DNA on the scarf.

"She told the jury that the green scarf from the creek “may not have been related to the timing of the crime.” She says there is no DNA on it."

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-states-dna-expert-takes-the-stand/

I don't know how anyone could get from this that the scarf wasn't tested.

 

[flashy09]

BG was there that day looking for a target. He was dressed for it, armed with a gun and knife.

Oh for sure, what I was trying to say in reply to another poster is I don't think he made a choice between BB and Libby and Abby. I think he simply let BB go before he even saw Libby and Abby.

 

[mrjitty]

One other point to note - and this cannot be henpecked - the HHS video is internally consistent.

So we know what time BB arrived relative to the girls.

Add in the time-stamp from the juvenile girl's photo, text message from libby to the juvenile girl, and time stamp of the bridge guy video, and the fitbit data - you don't need any of the identity evidence. All you need to know is that RA agreed he saw the group of girls, and that he was on platform 1.

For instance, one of the juvenile girls is incorrect about what time it was - but that doesn't matter because we know what time it actually was.

 

[sunshineray]

If RA is going to be judged as guilty regardless of the decision of the jury I really struggle as to what the point of the trial is at all for some.

I'm personally not convinced whatsoever by the state's case but I do give the prosecutor a lot of credit for how he's carried himself so far in the trial and done a good job IMO. Also he hasn't merely kept repeating that RA is guilty ad nauseum and insisted 'but it has to be him' - he has tried to put a case on and explain the logic of his opinion even if I think he's been let down by the original investigation to be able to back this up.

He's also avoided falling into the trap of bickering with defense etc.

I don't have to agree with him but I do think he has done a professional job.

All JMO

The content and sheer number of confessions may help to change a lot of minds I think. JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

The Murdersheet did a multipart series speaking with a number of his coworkers.

I think the one conclusion one could draw is that he did not socialise with his coworkers, and that indeed, no one (who was at least willing to talk) knew him.

MOO

“It doesn’t matter, it’s over”

It was reported RA and his wife bought their house in 2006 so in the absence of other information, he must’ve lived in Delphi for 16 years until the time of his arrest. In small communities people who avoid mixing with others are often referred to as “oddballs’. If for 16 years he didn’t associate with anyone, I’d wonder why or even if he really cared what his co-workers and neighbours thought?

Who is Richard Allen? Suspect in murders of Libby & Abby is pharmacy tech and longtime Delphi community member

Richard Matthew Allen, the primary suspect in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German, has lived in the Delphi community for at least 16 years.

www.wrtv.com

 

[MassGuy]

The state enters into evidence two video interviews with Allen, from October 13 and 26, 2022. Judge Gull tells the jury that parts are redacted, as they do not pertain to the investigation.

The judge allows both videos, one with Mullins and Liggett and the other with Holeman.

At 9:14, the jury enters the courtroom and the video is on the screen. Judge Gull says the jury was able to have supervised use of their phones last night and were able to look at work emails.

The state plays the October 13 video first. Mullin and Liggett explain in the video why they are talking to Allen, they read him his rights and tell him he can leave at any time. Allen says he understands.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog

Day 10 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins at 9 a.m. Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest developments.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Bergmann]

The content and sheer number of confessions may help to change a lot of minds I think. JMO

I'm less confident than I think you might be in terms of changing minds. I think no matter which way these confessions go some opinions seem very entrenched.

My hope is that as much of the detail as possible is laid out for the jury to make sense of, with minimal editing or leading of the witness. Give the jury as much room to make their own minds up about content, validity, context etc.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

We know that the 3 juvenile girls saw Bridge Guy at around 1.30

We know approximately what time BB says Bridge Guy on the platform from fitbit and the HHS video. (I don't know these exact times sorry - i don't have the fitbit data). We also know exactly what time the girls video Bridge Guy. We also now know pretty much exactly when the girls arrive thanks to video and digital evidence. (especially BB seems them outbound).

There are only two possibilities.

1. RA was on the trail ahead of BB. In which case he must be the man on the platform. Then there is no way for him to get back down the trail without seeing the girls

2. RA was behind BB on the trail - but in which case she would have seen him on her return leg. So this simply isn't corroborated by his interview.

There is no way to make an innocent version.

I quote from the legal docs and approved sources. I give links to both.
The timelines don't match. Even Kelsi's testimony to the time she dropped the girls does not match the time in the PCA. shrug...

 

[Cyber sleuth]

It's really quite amazing just how much they didn't do.

This is what happens when you don't follow the evidence. It's tunnel vision.

Yes one piece of evidence should have been followed directly to RA 7 years ago.
It still wouldn’t have created evidence at the crime scene (DNA) , or additional witnesses and may not have been able to seize the weapon or bloody clothes in time from RA before he disposed them. I bet he got rid of them before he met up with Dan Dulin in February 2017.
It’s a shame a mistake was made. But it doesn’t make RA any less guilty. And it doesn’t take away the significance of the case the state is presenting.
A mistake on a tip shouldn’t mean that a brutal murderer of children goes free. To possibly commit again.
While I will agree a mistake was made I do not believe that LE haven’t “done” any investigating in the 5 years leading up to the arrest.
The mountain of discovery that the defense has loudly complained about is evidence of this.
All my opinion

 

[Trebor5591]

Maybe even earlier than April 2023.
BBM

Allen’s first alleged confession came in the early weeks after his arrest, according to law enforcement. In a November 2022 phone call to his wife, Allen is alleged to have said, “If this becomes too much for you, just let me know and I will talk to the detectives and tell them everything they want to know.”

State: Allen made 61 Confessions over 60 days – Judge rules jury can hear them all - Carroll County Comet

Sixty-one times Richard Allen allegedly confessed to killing Abigail Williams and Liberty German, Prosecutor Nick McLeland said during a 3-day hearing in early August. Thursday, attorneys learned those confessions will now be heard by a jury. Special Judge Fran Gull filed her order late in the...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

That is a very iffy "confession" if you ask me. One could easily interpret it as a grandiose offer to "fall on one's sword" and plead guilty to the murders just to take pressure of the trial off of RA's spouse, not because he actually murdered the girls. IMO

 

[sunshineray]

The state enters into evidence two video interviews with Allen, from October 13 and 26, 2022. Judge Gull tells the jury that parts are redacted, as they do not pertain to the investigation.

The judge allows both videos, one with Mullins and Liggett and the other with Holeman.

At 9:14, the jury enters the courtroom and the video is on the screen. Judge Gull says the jury was able to have supervised use of their phones last night and were able to look at work emails.

The state plays the October 13 video first. Mullin and Liggett explain in the video why they are talking to Allen, they read him his rights and tell him he can leave at any time. Allen says he understands.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog

Day 10 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins at 9 a.m. Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest developments.

www.wishtv.com

What in world could be redacted in a murder investigation's LE interviews? Holeman already testified to the rapport building chit chat. Why redact anything? It can possibly mess with context. Maybe it was just names of family and co-workers? Those I could see but anything else and the whole tone of what happened and how could be removed. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

If RA is going to be judged as guilty regardless of the decision of the jury I really struggle as to what the point of the trial is at all for some.

I'm personally not convinced whatsoever by the state's case but I do give the prosecutor a lot of credit for how he's carried himself so far in the trial and done a good job IMO. Also he hasn't merely kept repeating that RA is guilty ad nauseum and insisted 'but it has to be him' - he has tried to put a case on and explain the logic of his opinion even if I think he's been let down by the original investigation to be able to back this up.

He's also avoided falling into the trap of bickering with defense etc.

I don't have to agree with him but I do think he has done a professional job.

All JMO

The point is that I don’t need a jury to tell me if he’s guilty or not. It’s about satisfying my own curiosity, and hoping they get it right.

Knowing someone is guilty is very different than being able to prove it.

I know he’s guilty, but if I was on that jury it would be a completely different ballgame.

 

[Melted]

But, according to RA he didn't go off trail after BB, wearing her fitbit, witnessed him standing on the platform; he walked back up the trail and sat on a bench.

Nope - he would have had to pass by A&L. Why the lies if one's innocent self is self-snitching to seeing the same group f girls that saw him, to also being on the trails at the right place, at the right time, and in dressed in the very similar "overdressed" clothing for that unseasonably warm day.

If there was no one on else on the trails who is the man the second witness described as BG walking near freedom bridge at 2:15 pm?

2 minutes after the down the hill video began recording.

 

[tlcya]

SBM - tlcya

The state plays the October 13 video first. Mullin and Liggett explain in the video why they are talking to Allen, they read him his rights and tell him he can leave at any time. Allen says he understands.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog

Day 10 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins at 9 a.m. Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest developments.

www.wishtv.com

but I thought the defense said RA being read his rights was not on video? And yet, apparently it was? How interesting. IMO
------------------------------------------
Court docs show that on Oct. 13, 2022, Allen and his wife drove from Delphi to ISP’s Lafayette Post to pick up a car that had been seized 13 days earlier by troopers. However, when they arrived, Allen says he was separated from his wife and taken inside for questioning.

Allen’s attorneys argue that during this interview, ISP Trooper Holeman violated multiple basic police procedures including not reading Allen his Miranda Rights Warning, not telling him he was free to go at any time and not telling him that the interview was being recorded.
https://fox59.com/indiana-news/rich...ver-read-miranda-rights-during-interrogation/

 

[Bergmann]

I know he’s guilty,

I'll wait till we've heard all the presented evidence before deciding.

IMO there's often a gulf between being certain and being right.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

That is a very iffy "confession" if you ask me.

I'm curious. How else would you interpret that statement to his wife?

 

[MassGuy]

but I thought the defense said RA being read his rights was not on video? And yet, apparently it was? How interesting. IMO
------------------------------------------
Court docs show that on Oct. 13, 2022, Allen and his wife drove from Delphi to ISP’s Lafayette Post to pick up a car that had been seized 13 days earlier by troopers. However, when they arrived, Allen says he was separated from his wife and taken inside for questioning.

Allen’s attorneys argue that during this interview, ISP Trooper Holeman violated multiple basic police procedures including not reading Allen his Miranda Rights Warning, not telling him he was free to go at any time and not telling him that the interview was being recorded.
https://fox59.com/indiana-news/rich...ver-read-miranda-rights-during-interrogation/

It’s so fricken stupid, but we knew this would be the case because of previous defense tactics.

 

[Melted]

Just another perspective, I think being accused in the brutal murderer of two young girls would elicit an expression of more than just embarrassment to my friends or coworkers. I'd be furious, demanding answers and providing anything necessary I had to in order to prove LE had the wrong guy, IF I were innocent.

IMO, RA knew the jig was up, he'd gotten away with 5+ years of freedom with the threat looming overhead that one day that could all change. RA was done and he knew it when LE came knocking on his door Oct 13th 2022 and then the 'few more questions' on Oct 26th 2022, which ended in his arrest.

Maybe RA was ready for it to be done if his confessions and statements are to be believed.

As always, JMO

There’s an old saying:

If you’re guilty, you need a lawyer.
If you’re innocent, you really need a lawyer.