Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #206

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  • #761
I think the only inference that makes sense is they had good reason to believe that an independent assessment would conclude that RA was competent. They had nothing to lose and everything to gain if RA was found incompetent. It would delay the trial until competency was restored, possibly indefinitely, depending on his response to treatment.

MOO
What better way to make your client look guilty than to question his competency to stand trial. I wouldn't have had an assessment done for him either if I were his lawyer. It has the effect of being prejudicial to the jury imo. MOoo.
 
  • #762
Is court still in session for the day? Haven't heard one way or another yet.
 
  • #763

Testimony from the 3 day hearing this summer. Just for a refresher.

Harshman was assigned to review his calls and monitor them and review confessions.

He said in early March Mr. Allen began reading his bible..

He spoke about finding Jesus Chris and finding God on March 21, 2023.. was talking a lot about making sure he could be with his family in heaven. He testified saying the confessions started just a few days later.. First ones to his wife and mother were met with shock.. wife often telling him to quit talking.. his mother telling him they are messing with his head.

I am curious about those first confessions. Seems they were way before April 5th. Seems things were actually going well in March if he was reading his bible and talking about finding God and watching to make sure he sees his family in Heaven and so on.

Also just because the discovery was delivered to the jail, does not mean RA had access to it or to all it. Wasn't there an issue with figuring out how he could view it because he couldn't have it in his cell? I also recall something about one of his attorneys didn't even bring it there, an aide did and then the prison didn't have a way to let him see it. I could be wrong on this so I'll go look for where I might have read this.. pretty sure it was here on WS.
 
  • #764
What better way to make your client look guilty than to question his competency to stand trial. I wouldn't have had an assessment done for him either if I were his lawyer. It has the effect of being prejudicial to the jury imo. MOoo.

Because then the jury would know the client was malingering?
 
  • #765
No matter how many trials I've followed, it's always interesting to see how others interpret "reasonable doubt".

jmo
 
  • #766
Is court still in session for the day? Haven't heard one way or another yet.

Lawyer Lee just posted on YouTube they just got out of court several minutes ago.
 
  • #767
Catching up on today… my biggest question to anyone who thinks there was a 2nd person present at the murders- why would RA not have given them up by now? Genuinely, what is the reasoning there?
Only thing I can think of is he wasn’t involved at all?? Because he’s facing DP for kidnapping and murder- not like he’d have anything to lose - but then we’d be back to a mysterious person or two getting in and out of the crime scene undetected- which is not impossible- and if BG not RA and witnesses saw different people- but that ground has been covered- only scenario I can think of if more than one person was involved is if RA was not involved- which is hypothetically possible but not the most probable scenario …. moo
 
  • #768
No matter how many trials I've followed, it's always interesting to see how others interpret "reasonable doubt".

jmo
Agreed. This is still BARD thus far, according to my very subjective opinion, but I get the ppl who are on the fence.

What blew my mind was seeing ppl claiming that the Idaho BK evidence is very far from BARD atm. If that's the standard, empty out the prisons, no one is guilty... all moo
 
  • #769
Only thing I can think of is he wasn’t involved at all?? Because he’s facing DP for kidnapping and murder- not like he’d have anything to lose - but then we’d be back to a mysterious person or two getting in and out of the crime scene undetected- which is not impossible- and if BG not RA and witnesses saw different people- but that ground has been covered- only scenario I can think of if more than one person was involved is if RA was not involved- which is hypothetically possible but not the most probable scenario …. moo
is he facing the death penalty? i thought it was 130 years max sentence.
 
  • #770
  • #771
Because then the jury would know the client was malingering?
I wonder, if they recorded him in his cell with video and audio - will the jury see that? Hard to assess malingering or not without seeing it imo...
 
  • #772
Only thing I can think of is he wasn’t involved at all?? Because he’s facing DP for kidnapping and murder- not like he’d have anything to lose - but then we’d be back to a mysterious person or two getting in and out of the crime scene undetected- which is not impossible- and if BG not RA and witnesses saw different people- but that ground has been covered- only scenario I can think of if more than one person was involved is if RA was not involved- which is hypothetically possible but not the most probable scenario …. moo
I can think of at least one other alternative - he acted alone.

JMO
 
  • #773
No because anytime you question someone's mental competence, imo people automatically assume <modnote - derogatory name for mental illness>. I wonder, if they recorded him in his cell with video and audio - will the jury see that? Hard to assess malingering or not without seeing it imo...
IMO, and any atteys pls correct me, but it is a great get out of the jail card for confessions if you can prove the client is incompetent at the time. See BM's efforts to get his client assessed as not competent in the Garcia case.
 
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  • #774
What better way to make your client look guilty than to question his competency to stand trial. I wouldn't have had an assessment done for him either if I were his lawyer. It has the effect of being prejudicial to the jury imo. MOoo.
I disagree. It's a basic thing that a defendant must be able to understand what's going on and participate in their own defense. This safeguards against unfair convictions. It is part of defense's duty of care to raise competency if they feel it is an issue preventing them from collaborating with their client.

Why or how would a jury learn about a competency assessment? They only came up in Letecia Stauch's case because she was pleading NGRI.

MOO
 
  • #775
No because anytime you question someone's mental competence, imo people automatically assume <modnote - derogatory name for mental illness>. I wonder, if they recorded him in his cell with video and audio - will the jury see that? Hard to assess malingering or not without seeing it imo...
We have the sworn testimony of the prison guards who were tasked with monitoring him. They have zero reason to lie under oath, and zero reason to have fabricated those contemporaneous notes.
 
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  • #776
No because anytime you question someone's mental competence, imo people automatically assume <modnote - derogatory name for mental illness>. I wonder, if they recorded him in his cell with video and audio - will the jury see that? Hard to assess malingering or not without seeing it imo...
I haven't seen that in the cases i've seen that have had competency exams. The perception usually is that it is a means for someone to claim they're insane but they're not actually insane. Like Lori Daybell. or Letecia. Lori was incompetent but "restored to competency" so she could stand trial and aide in her defense.

IMO RA's attorneys have done him a huge disservice not getting his competency evaluated very early on or at least when his behavior really took a nosedive. This would discredit all the confessions. Guess they were too busy investigating the Odinism angle to waste time on that......
 
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  • #777

Testimony from the 3 day hearing this summer. Just for a refresher.

Harshman was assigned to review his calls and monitor them and review confessions.

He said in early March Mr. Allen began reading his bible..

He spoke about finding Jesus Chris and finding God on March 21, 2023.. was talking a lot about making sure he could be with his family in heaven. He testified saying the confessions started just a few days later.. First ones to his wife and mother were met with shock.. wife often telling him to quit talking.. his mother telling him they are messing with his head.

I am curious about those first confessions. Seems they were way before April 5th. Seems things were actually going well in March if he was reading his bible and talking about finding God and watching to make sure he sees his family in Heaven and so on.

Also just because the discovery was delivered to the jail, does not mean RA had access to it or to all it. Wasn't there an issue with figuring out how he could view it because he couldn't have it in his cell? I also recall something about one of his attorneys didn't even bring it there, an aide did and then the prison didn't have a way to let him see it. I could be wrong on this so I'll go look for where I might have read this.. pretty sure it was here on WS.
BBM

I wouldn't take him reading the Bible and talking about meeting his family in heaven as a good sign of mental health if he wasn't into that earlier, personally. But I'm not a specialist and not trying to diagnose him in any way.

In some cases it can be a red flag, that's all I'm saying.
 
  • #778
We have the sworn testimony of the prison guards who were tasked with monitoring him. They have zero reason to lie under oath, and zero reason to have fabricated those contemporaneous notes.
Yeah, these aren’t inmate statements about what he said, which is always questionable because of their significant motivation.
 
  • #779
I'm still very curious about the legal mail he got right before he started to... express symptoms of being insane. His own defense said he was not provided discovery by that date, but that seems to be what triggered a dramatic change in behavior. Coincidentally two days before his attorneys file a motion trying to get him moved based on deteriorating mental conditions, complete with citations of research being conducted by the attorneys which seems strange for only having like a two business day lead.

I digress...

JMO
 
  • #780
Because then the jury would know the client was malingering?
Some mental illnesses affect competency differently than others. Him being competent doesn't necessarily mean he's faking.
 
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