Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #207

[katydid23]

I think the issue of powering on and off has already been resolved.

The step tracker stopped tracking her steps at 2:32 that afternoon. It was assumed that she was across the creek and did not move after that. Brad didn't get home until 3 or 3:30 (depending on which news source), If she was already dead by 2:32.. ? I can't make that work.

Why would you say 3 or 3:30? BW said he was off work at 2:00 and worked 25 minutes away.

 

[m00c0w]

Do we have any sort of corroboration of what time he arrived? I think this might be a reason for why then state doesn’t want the geofence data allowed in

Do you have a source that the state doesn’t want the geofence data in?

 

[photographer4]

Yes. The minute "not guilty" from the jury is read by the judge.

Yikes. Ok! Thank you for clarifying I thought so but then I was wondering - for someone with the major mental health issues he appears to have had I guess I had hoped there would be a transition of some sort to help ensure stability / safety (from the angry people if he is acquitted I mean)….

 

[photographer4]

BA ego would never take a pea.

Wonder if they have in other cases they’ve represented? Just curious.

 

[gremlin444]

That seems a little far fetched of a claim for anyone to make.

It's already been done in the case--in regard to a third party suspect (someone else punching out a time card).

 

[smamda]

Looks like "Guilty and acted alone" is up quite a bit today.

The poll is a the top of the trials forum main page. Can't get the link to work.

Here is a snapshot of current numbers, the poll is on the TRIALS page as RANCH said.

 

[otto]

2:30-2:32ish is when the elevation change happened according to Cecil. The last recorded movement of the phone was not long after that elevation change. Several threads ago, I posted topo maps of the area and going from the creek to up the bank where they were found is consistent with an elevation increase of ~20ft.

That last few minutes before the phone stopped recording activity is when they were moved across the creek and up the bank to the murder scene.

All my opinion.

Thank you! Found these topo maps. PDFs can be downloaded. Orange arrow is my best estimation of where the bodies were discovered. Please let me know if the location should be adjusted. These maps illustrate your point - across the river (North), part way up the ravine at 2:30 (elevation change), then the phone stopped working at 2:32.

The man who lives near the bridge (South side of creek) was no where near the girls when they stopped moving.

https://www.yellowmaps.com/usgs/topomaps/drg24/30p/o40086e6.jpg

Delphi topographic map 1:24,000 scale, Indiana

Delphi topographic map in Indiana viewable online in JPG format as a free download. Digital topo map DVD and paper map purchase of the Delphi USGS topo quad at 1:24,000 scale. Gazetteer of geographical features showing elevation, relief.

www.yellowmaps.com

 

[SouthEnd]

refusing outside (fbi or other) help, etc, etc, that is so depressing I feel like I can set my watch to it. On top of that to me it seems like a top down refusal to take accountability for these things as well overall

Snipped by me; are there any links that Indiana refused FBI help? From what I recall during the trial the D kept implying it and the LE refuted those claims. Where is that information coming from, do we have documented proof that the relations between the agencies broke down?

A genuine question, since I've only seen DT alleging it without any data thus far.

 

[katydid23]

Exactly! Some of us veteran members on this site have heard enough expert testimony to know that there is a big difference in the wounds if you use a serrated blade vs. a smooth blade. I've never heard of a box cutter having a serrated blade. RA was probably asked if he used a box cutter during one of the many, many confessions so naturally, he says that yes, I used a box cutter. JMO

Some box cutters DO have serrated blades. We posted pictures of some on Amazon in earlier threads.

 

[INfisherman]

Just a quick observation - I think the timelines and various witness statements are all incredibly hard to follow and reconcile for regular people who haven’t been studying the details of the case for years. I know I have trouble with it, and I have been following pretty closely since the arrest.

Being an attorney yourself & given how important the timeline is to this case, wouldn’t you expect the P to provide that, say, in closing or somewhere thereabouts in order to make it clear? He’s gone to all this trouble to build the story up to the point that the major bricks are being slammed on top of all the other evidence to drive home his points. I find it hard to imagine the P slipping & making a mistake like that which would make all his work open for speculation. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the cell phone data being tied in with all that for corroboration.

JMO

 

[m00c0w]

Libby German's phone data analyzed at Delphi double-murder trial: 'You need to call me now!'

The analysis comes as defense attorneys are trying to introduce the Odinism theory into Richard Allen's double-murder trial.

abc7chicago.com

Actually Moo, not to nit pick but this link says both. The elevation changed AND the phone stopped moving at 2:32pm. It changed elevation at 2:31 then:

“By 2:32 p.m., Cecil testified the phone stopped and never moved again. He told the court it didn't ping anywhere outside the trails, Deer Creek and the site where the girls' bodies were found the next day.”

If the phone was already across the creek by the time BW got home from wherever he may have been, how could RA have seen him/ the vehicle? I’m confused and very sleepy so maybe I’ve missed something? Pls send coffee! Ty. Not moo - am actually asking because I think I misunderstood something.

BW left at 2:02, and the drive is 20-25 minutes. This puts him getting home at 2:22-2:27.


1:31 pm – 2:08 pm – 1,682 steps (707.34 meters)
2:08 pm – 2:18 pm – 414.38 meters
2:25 pm – 2:32 pm – 66 steps (50.64 meters)
2:31 pm – two-floor elevation change


Cecil’s testimony explained the iPhone uses 10 feet as its estimation for distance for a “floor,” meaning the two-floor elevation change would be about 20 feet. The Health App, he explained, doesn’t record a duration for the elevation change. He said that it happened during the steps taken from 2:25 pm to 2:32 pm.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/he-was-covered-in-mud-and-blood-bridge-guy-witness-testimonies-continue/

The movement from 2:25-2:32 would be consistent with BW coming home and interrupting RA, sending the girls up the creek bank resulting in a 20ft elevation change.

 

[somequestions]

After today's testimony from Dr. Walla, it looks like the case is over. I think the probability of Richard Allen being convicted went up to 99.9%.

Richard Allen gave a confession to Dr. Walla where he talked about being interrupted during the crime by a person driving a van. The state then presented someone who happened to be arriving home at the same time as the crime who lives near the crime scene area who was driving a van.

Then the investigators showed that only 1 2016 black Ford Focus SE was registered in Carroll County, Indiana to a Richard Allen so even if the police cannot identify who was driving or the license plate, it seems like it was most likely Richard Allen who was caught on camera driving past the Hoosier Harvest store.

I thought Richard Allen might be innocent. The way he denied killing Abigial Williams and Liberty German so vehemently, I really believed it.

 

[sunshineray]

BA ego would never take a pea.

Do you think the judge is polling the defendant about his council?

 

[Momofthreeboys]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

“In the meantime - However, Walla's involvement in the case became a focus during cross-examination. The defense questioned her decision to access the Department of Corrections database and participate in online discussions, podcasts, and social media pages about the case, raising concerns about her impartiality.“

Delphi Double Murder Trial Day 11: Allen's former psychologist takes the stand

DELPHI, Ind. (WLFI) – Day 11 of the Delphi double homicide trial for Richard Allen, accused of the 2017 murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, got underway Wednesday.

www.wlfi.com

How do we know what their database has in it? Is there info on witnesses? Their statements? Cars noted in the area? I don’t think she helped the states case as much as they hoped. Moo.

I wonder about that also. Plus a dx of psychosis during solitary confinement for ann extended period of time and the use of Haldol injections could complicate the opinion of the veracity of the confessions.

 

[Tealgrove]

Pure theatre.

JMO

Agreed

 

[SouthEnd]

Has anyone thought about the fact that Brad Weber just testified under oath and placed himself at the scene of the crime at the correct time?

It was not the correct time to be BG tho, IMO. He couldn't have been there for the video, since he clocked out at 2:02 and the drive was 20 to 25 mins.

 

[m00c0w]

Thank you! Found these topo maps. PDFs can be downloaded. Orange arrow is my best estimation of where the bodies were discovered. Please let me know if the location should be adjusted. These maps illustrate your point - across the river (North), part way up the ravine at 2:30 (elevation change), then the phone stopped working at 2:32.

The man who lives near the bridge (South side of creek) was no where near the girls when they stopped moving.

View attachment 541905

https://www.yellowmaps.com/usgs/topomaps/drg24/30p/o40086e6.jpg

Delphi topographic map 1:24,000 scale, Indiana

Delphi topographic map in Indiana viewable online in JPG format as a free download. Digital topo map DVD and paper map purchase of the Delphi USGS topo quad at 1:24,000 scale. Gazetteer of geographical features showing elevation, relief.

www.yellowmaps.com

They were a little further south than that. This is the map I posted the other day in a prior thread, source is USGS:


That was my best estimation from the GPS coordinates in the RL search warrant affidavit.

When BW interrupted them, though, they would have been on the other side of the creek. The gray line going through that area is essentially his driveway. The bridge is not on the map, but the interruption (based on today’s testimony) would have likely been on the flat area south of the crime scene on the opposite side of the creek. The road being up on the ridge right there is consistent with RA’s description of seeing the van.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

BW clocks out at 2:02. It's a 20-25 minute drive. So he arrives at 2:22 - 2:27. RA sends the girls over the creek to a more private location and resumes whatever he was doing for another hour.

Ok, sounds like the D is thinking he wasn’t back in time to see RA (if it was RA). Ty

 

[sunshineray]

I wonder about that also. Plus a dx of psychosis during solitary confinement for ann extended period of time and the use of Haldol injections could complicate the opinion of the veracity of the confessions.

Dr Wala's testimony during the 3 day pre-trial hearing revealed that she did not think RA was always being truthful with her about his condition. In fact after being treated because of acting out by self harm, RA improved a lot, it helped. Some intervention was obviously necessary to stop RA from hurting himself and it was successful.

 

[Momofthreeboys]

When I was in therapy, my therapist took notes by hand while we talked.. it was more personal that way. She told me she would write up these notes to store online later.. not sure if that is a word document or what, but she took the notes she made and typed them up. I dont think it's odd that this is what they do in the prison.. I'm not sure she could bring her computer to the prison cells.. likely notes made it easier to refer to later in her office to type them up.

Of course the defense would make this act of "Destroying" her notes seem nefarious. I bet if you asked she did the exact same thing for every single patient she has.

I would think it depends on the timing. If there was a court order to everyone involved in the case at a specific point in time then I would assume that would include all the people responsible for his care that they were required to keep all written notes and correspondence related to the case then she may have violated a court order.