Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #211

[MiniMoo]

How was it "clean"?
If it's the lack of DNA you are referring to, the elements helped tremendously.

JMO

And yet there was blood...

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Vern]

Question: Would an alcoholic be able to leave a crime scene so clean?

Obviously, "yes".

IMO.

 

[Ravenmoon]

And yet there was blood...

JMO MOO JMT

Indeed.
Copious amouts from dying girls.

 

[arielilane]

The artist is too kind. moo


(Courtesy: Li Buszka)

 

[Megnut]

IMO, I think she recognized that photo of BG as being her spouse - RA.

I think she asked him about it and he denied having been on the bridge at all that day. "That's not me Kathy; I wasn't on the bridge that day, I was only on the trail". (The photo is obviously taken on the bridge - one can see the bridge clearly).

Kathy believes him and encourages him to talk to LE because he was on the trails. RA himself stated that he came forward at the encouragement of his wife ... Had it not been for her, he wouldn't have said a darn thing about it or tipped himself in IMO. But he was caught out by her so he had to.

She knows he's talked to LE ... and life goes on swimmingly for 5 long years. So, in reality she's had 5 years to believe him as there has been zero repercussions to his chat with LE.

Than, BAM, they find themselves being questionned - RA is now a POI and her reaction is, "But you told me that you weren't on the bridge Richard". With this statement she has indicated that she had queried him about that photo - about it being him. He denied it. She believed him for 5 years. Where she's at now is another ball game.

He played her. KA was another of RA's victims ... at least for 5 long years.

And, the fact that he lied to her about being on the bridge that day, despite admitting to LE that he was on platform one of that bridge is yet just another bit of "guilty knowledge" on RAs part.

IMO.

Your post reminded me of the press conferences.

IIRC:

The first one, BG, trail cam, LE wants to talk to him to see what he may have seen/heard.

2019 interview, going in another direction, YBG sketch. Not looking at OBG. We've interviewed you before. You've told somebody.

Were they trying to take the heat, so to speak, off OBG in the hopes family would turn him in, not as the perpetrator but as a witness?

I don't think LE was confused. Even though the sketches differ, the timeline suggested all the witnesses were describing one individual, seen multiple ways (and not multiple men! Or the group of juveniles saw 3 or 4 different men which we knows isn't true, just one man, described differently!). LE knew YBG and OBG were one person... they just needed a name. Needed someone to tip him in.

It's almost like they were speaking directly to KA.

But KA had RA lying to her. She had to think LE investigated RA's self-report, plus RA insisting he'd never been on the bridge. Possibly she was relieved when the YBG sketch came out since RA wasn't 18 with poofy hair.

IMO consciously or otherwise her mind has been looking for ways for RA not to be BG for years. Denial is a powerful force.

JMO

 

[CS2C]

The artist is too kind. moo

View attachment 542981
(Courtesy: Li Buszka)

Is that ET?

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

RA's wife must be going thru excruciating cognitive dissonance... it's striking that she said to him in the interrogation room 'you told me you weren't on the bridge' !!

So she didn't understand that the BG pic is him even tho MOO it plainly is .... & as he tipped himself in after the pic came out, imo HE recognized himself in it.

She knew he was at the scene, could not possibly have avoided seeing the BG pic, & yet somehow she thought it was not him !! Mindblowing
MOO

I wonder too if the pixelation of the video and public speculation turning attention towards RL, TK, KK, JC and others could have helped with this too?

One of the things about the video that I did appreciate is how well defined BG’s clothes are compared to his face due to the pixelation. The clothes IMO fortunately played a big role in identifying and matching witness statements regarding what BG looked liked that day and maybe tracking his movements. At the same time the outfit was also pretty common and unfortunately it may have been one of the reasons that led some members of the public to begin suspect or target negative attention towards RL, who was innocent by the way, because he wore a jacket that appeared similar to BG’s during one of his earlier interviews.

As for BG’s face, due to the pixelation, I used to perceive the nose as bit more blunt or thick, like JC’s or KK’s, who are also not suspects of this horrific crime, compared to YBG sketch and RA’s profile.

I guess my point overall was that I think maybe it is easier and feels safer for the brain and eyes to see similarities that allude multiple dangerous elements outside the outside the home than one sitting next to you everyday. Like despite your instincts or personal doubt there is a comfort and further encouragement that with all the fingers pointing at POIs none of them have yet to point at you or your spouse/partner

 

[Deleted member 229974]

The trail timeline to identify Richard Allen as Bridge guy is absolutely key here and I just don't think the prosecution are doing enough to get their facts across to the jury.
The fact a day or so after the murders he said he was there between 13:30 & 15:30. But 5 (FIVE!) years later he changed that time frame to much earlier. Ask yourselves what is likely to be the more vivid memory? Days after or multiple years?
No photos in court showing the perspective Betsy Blair would've had from her vantage point to the first platform. It was about 100 yards wasn't it. Very difficult to give an age approximation from that distance. She did so anyway and the defense have been hanging on it.
As far as I can see they haven't presented exactly where the group of girls saw him on the trail and I also think at trial they didn't ask the witnesses from that group in which direction he was travelling?

When asked in 2022 if he had ever crossed the full length of the bridge on previous trips to the trails he said it was treacherous and not something he had done for years. The girls were murdered 'years' before this interview!
There are many more details that haven't been mentioned imo.
The prosecution are really showing a lack of thorough investigation to me.
They are tiny details, but in the scheme of things put together they are huge ...but I don't get the impression the prosecution are getting it across.

 

[Vern]

@defense_diaries

#RichardAllenTrial UpdateMonday morning and the trial is about to get started. Seems likely that the Defense will be calling Brad Weber to the stand today. Brad Weber has become a critical witness for the State’s new theory that #RichardAllen saw Weber’s van at approximately 2:32 p.m. on 2/13/17 and it spooked him causing him to abandon his plan to S.A. the girls. Problem for the State is that Weber had made a prior inconsistent statement to FBI Agent Pohl early on in the investigation stating that he has serviced multiple ATM machines after he clocked out at 2:02 p.m., which had him arriving home after 3:10 p.m. on 2/13. The defense filed a motion on 11/1/24 to allow Agent Pohl to testify remotely this past Saturday from Texas as he has a medical condition which prohibits him from flying. Judge Gull denied the motion. The defense now has the challenging task of trying to impeach their own witness. Stay tuned.


8:30 AM · Nov 4, 2024

Meh. They stated that to BW while he was on the stand last week too and he flat out denied it, "that's just not true!" and further stated that the ATMs were in the morning and that he just dropped off a trailer after work.

So, IMO, the problem might not actually be for the State, but for the Defense. I sure hope they didnt rely on SM rumours about BWs return time to his house (3:30pm) because it turns out those rumours were wrong. Ergo the dramatic show of slapping down the supoena while he was still on the stand under cross.

Still wonder why the D-Team isn't bothering to actually speak with the first LE who spoke with RA ... on the 13th of February 2017 approx 1730hrs ... when the girls were still just 'missing'.

IMO.

 

[somequestions]

RE WHITE van
Allen, according to Wala's note, said he intended to rape the girls, but he didn't because he saw a white van driving nearby. Instead, he crossed Deer Creek, killed them and left, avoiding the main trails as he walked back to his car.
Defense calls first 2 witnesses after state rests its case in Delphi murders trial

It is the last part that is strange. If Richard Allen walked back to his car after the crimes and he stayed off the trails, the only other way he could get back to his car is by walking in the woods, but off the road so between the trail path and the road.

The first thing you need to remember is that SC saw a man on W 300 N at 3:57pm walking who she thinks was bridge guy. In order to avoid the Hoosier Harvest store surveillance camera, Richard Allen would have had to walk off the road before the Hoosier Harvest store camera. I think one possible scenario could be he left the road, but then once past the Hoosier Harvest store surveillance camera went back onto the road to finish walking back to his car. Then SC sees him walking along W 300 N? Was it the Hoosier Harvest store surveillance camera or the witness SC that made Richard Allen leave walking along W 300 N?

In February there would probably be no leaves on any of the trees so walking in the woods between the trail path and the road would not give a lot of cover. But it is not impossible that Richard Allen got back to his car because many times people do not pay attention.

With the people that were already at the trails walking along the trail path looking for Abigail Williams and Liberty German around 4pm, I thought that knowing how Richard Allen got back to his car was an important question to answer.

 

[ClearAhead]

Richard Allen's sister and daughter say he never molested them, despite confession | Day 15 of Delphi murders trial

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

Defense's 12th witness, Dr. Polly Wescott, a forensic psychologist​

9:10 a.m. - The defense's 12th witness is Dr. Polly Wescott, a neuropsychologist who specializes in forensic psychiatry.
In May of 2023, Wescott started working with Allen's defense team at a rate of $450 an hour.
Wescott has testified as a witness for both the state and various defense teams.
Wescott said she worked with inmates at Wabash Valley Prison and the Indiana Women's Prison. Wescott has also worked with police crisis intervention teams.
Wescott said when the defense team reached out they wanted her to do three things:

1. Look at Allen's mental health history.
2. Do a neuropsychological exam
3. Determine the breadth and context for his mental decline during the time of his confession.

Wescott started off with Allen's mental health history and records. Wescott said she watched and listened to Allen. She also watched "extensive video footage" and "listened to phone calls" Allen made from prison.
Wescott said it is "very unusual" to get to see 20 hours of video footage of a patient and review suicide watch notes.
Wescott said she saw Westville and Wabash Valley video and information through March of 2024.
Wescott met with Allen in August of 2023 and performed an evaluation. Wescott said this was a two hour evaluation and a five hour test over two days.

 

[Yuletide]

Question: Would an alcoholic be able to leave a crime scene so clean?

In my opinion, yes. He was dressed in layers. He may have had gloves on. The crime scene wasn’t clean. He left behind a bullet from his gun and a cell phone that had incriminating evidence on it. He was spotted by multiple witnesses.

 

[Notthisshipsister]

Alcoholics often skip meals before drinking so they can get a buzz quicker
. I think he left his mom’s house in a rush so he could start his nefarious plans and complete them and hide the evidence before KA returned home from work. This would also explain why he was seen walking with a purpose.
Also I am wondering if skipping meals in Westville is as also done purposefully to help him achieve a “high or altered state” faster.
Jmo

Also (not sure if this has been addressed earlier) do we know the size of the beers he consumed? I don't drink beer but a quick Google shows that beer comes in can sizes ranging from 7.5oz - 32 oz.

 

[ClearAhead]

Richard Allen's sister and daughter say he never molested them, despite confession | Day 15 of Delphi murders trial

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

Part 2 of 3
Wescott also met with Kathy Allen several weeks later.
Wescott said she also asked for medical logs, more records, and then wrote a lengthy report. Wescott's report was entered as evidence. It included the following:

• Allen has "extensive mental health history"
• Intense anxiety and fears about school and around other people. The fears are focused on what others are thinking about him.
• As an adult, Allen started medicine for anxiety and depression.
• Allen felt like he was letting down his family and that no one likes him. Allen felt that way from his 20s through his time in prison.
• Allen's anxiety caused his depression.
• Under external stress, Allen "crumbles & falls apart - literally crawling up in a ball."
  • Wescott sited Allen's work history. Allen got promoted by the added stress sent him into more anxiety and depression.
• Always a time when Allen was suffering from some level of anxiety or depression
• Wescott also found Allen has Dependent Personality Disorder
  • Allen really needs other people to feel like a whole person. He relied heavily on his wife and mother.
  • Someone with this disorder can't function, make decisions, or exist on their own
  • Constant feeling of abandonment and rejection, need loved ones around
  • "He would fall apart when they were not physically there."

 

[ClearAhead]

Richard Allen's sister and daughter say he never molested them, despite confession | Day 15 of Delphi murders trial

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

part 3 of 3

Wescott said she had six conclusions about Allen.

1. "He was a fragile egg," Wescott said. Allen had a long history of mental health issues.
2. Allen was not faking or exaggerating his mental health issues.
3. Allen had clear cognitive decline. Wescott said his thinking was slowed down, his probably solving was low, and Allen was stuck in a loop thinking over the same things.
4. Allen had a clear distinction of decline in mental and physical health within four months of arriving at Westville. Wescott included psychosis in this, including hallucinations and delusions and "false beliefs about things that aren't true." The judge told the jury this was "not substantive evidence."
5. Wescott diagnosed Allen with Major Depressive Disorder (MDD).
6. Wescott said that MDD and high levels of stress can cause psychosis.

 

[ClearAhead]

Richard Allen's sister and daughter say he never molested them, despite confession | Day 15 of Delphi murders trial

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

The defense attempted to enter a clinical MCMI test that was administered to Allen. The state objected that they did not get a detailed copy, only a summary. The defense said the State didn't take the time to depose Wescott in the last 18 months, and that the results were available to them for months. The defense said they asked for assessment tools and told no. The judge sustained the objection, blocking the results.

 

[Warwick7]

It is very odd and the reason I think the girls had another phone that they handed over to him.

If so, wouldn't it had showed up in the geofence thingy? It doesn't sound like it did. So my guess is there wasn't another phone over.

 

[ClearAhead]

A bit more from the same link

Previous testimony from state's witnesses working at the Indiana Department of Corrections had mention "serious mental illness" (SMI) for Allen. Wescott said SMI is only used in prison. In clinical settings, they are called "severe mental illness" or "chronic mental illness." Wescott said Allen met those definitions before prison and while he was in prison.

Wescott said she received Dr. Wala's notes. Wescott said the confession description read like a story. Wala's notes about the confession seemed like there was a logical story with a beginning, middle, and end. Wescott said she saw a discrepancy between Wala's notes and what Wescott saw in the suicide watch notes and video tape from the same day.

Wescott said that in psychosis or delirium a person doesn't know what's real and what isn't because of changes in the brain.

The state objected saying Allen was never diagnosed with delirium. The judge overruled the objection.

Wescott said someone put in solitary confinement for a long time with sensory deprivation can lead to delirium.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I wonder too if the pixelation of the video and public speculation turning attention towards RL, TK, KK, JC and others could have helped with this too?

One of the things about the video that I did appreciate is how well defined BG’s clothes are compared to his face due to the pixelation. The clothes IMO fortunately played a big role in identifying and matching witness statements regarding what BG looked liked that day and maybe tracking his movements. At the same time the outfit was also pretty common and unfortunately it may have been one of the reasons that led some members of the public to begin suspect or target negative attention towards RL, who was innocent by the way, because he wore a jacket that appeared similar to BG’s during one of his earlier interviews.

As for BG’s face, due to the pixelation, I used to perceive the nose as bit more blunt or thick, like JC’s or KK’s, who are also not suspects of this horrific crime, compared to YBG sketch and RA’s profile.

I guess my point overall was that I think maybe it is easier and feels safer for the brain and eyes to see similarities that allude multiple dangerous elements outside the outside the home than one sitting next to you everyday. Like despite your instincts or personal doubt there is a comfort and further encouragement that with all the fingers pointing at POIs none of them have yet to point at you or your spouse/partner

In my experience alcoholism can change the facial appearance. Especially the nose and cheeks.
Depending of RA was in the midst of a drinking streak or in recovery may explain the changes in his face over the years. Including weight loss and gain.
JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

NM is going to ask witness on cross if it possible for someone with SMI, an admitted alcoholic to commit murder and remember it. JMO