Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212

[lonetraveler]

Are they not supposed to talk amongst themselves?

No. Jurors are not to discuss the trial until they are in deliberation.

 

[RexLuther]

There probably would not be any 'damage' in the audio port by the time they began extracting. It is just condensation/droplets and or dust/dirt that gets in to the port and can trigger the notification that something is plugged in. There would not be any major clues left behind.

Coincidental that it occurred at 1745hrs, milliseconds after an attempted voice call was made to that phone?

 

[AugustWest]

No. Jurors are not to discuss the trial until they are in deliberation.

Jurors are allowed to do so in Indiana:

Indiana Jury Rule 20:

(8) that jurors, including alternates, are permitted to discuss the evidence among themselves in the jury room during recesses from trial when all are present, as long as they reserve judgment about the outcome of the case until deliberations commence. The court shall admonish jurors not to discuss the case with anyone other than fellow jurors during the trial.

Redirecting...

www.in.gov

 

[Tortoise]

Lauren's doing a live - the prosecution has already finished with its rebuttal witnesses.

 

[Davemac1]

I believe it was before

It wasnt

 

[arielilane]

@angelaganote

The defense for double murder suspect Richard Allen rest their case. Prosecutors will bring a few witnesses back for rebuttal and then each side will deliver their closing arguments on Thursday. Each side will get two or two-and-a-half hours to deliver closing arguments.

The latest breaking details here: https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-defense-rests-its-case/


10:19 AM · Nov 6, 2024

 

[INfisherman]

You have to be careful about calling witnesses to testify on your good character. It opens the door to the other side bringing in information about how bad your character is.

Is it common to avoid work records, friends, coworkers, etc. in your experience or that you’ve noticed, if at all? The OP picked up on that & it really wasn’t discussed much that I recall. I do understand your point above but if the accused is so innocent as claimed by the P’s opening statement, where’s the support of the "fragile egg"?

I hope I’m clarifying my question & surprise. I’m not trying to take cheap shots at RA - just thinking what the jury may wonder. Here sits a supposedly innocent man & we’ve heard nothing so far from anyone who would associate with him other than his step sister & daughter. Just seems like that could be interpreted as trying to cloak reality. Hard to explain it, as I’m trying to perceive this unbiased from my personal opinions & all. I suppose it’s all the burden of proof thing again & the state didn’t open those "personal life" doors either, just stuck to their accusations.

 

[scapa]

Disappointed and so ready for this to be done, which is not how I expected to feel after waiting all these years for answers. We still won't know what happened and that is frustrating, and I'm disappointed at the circus atmosphere that developed after RA's arrest. I have disappointments about the court procedures too, but those will be worked out through appeal to determine of the errors are substantial.

I really wanted to feel completion and honestly some camaraderie for those of us who identified with the victims as just regular kids having fun together. I don't feel either completion or camaraderie as there are too many arguments, imo, about fantastical theories.

I expect a guilty verdict and that will be that. For a long time, this case was on my mind - the only one I've ever discussed with people "in real life." Now, I just want it finished.

jmo

Great answer -- I feel much the same.

For me, this case will be over, though not quite complete. Not with a BAM!!! but a whimper, as it were.

But I really, really hope that for the families and friends of Abby and Libby, it will be both. They deserve that -- and much, much more.

 

[MassGuy]

Lauren's doing a live - the prosecution has already finished with its rebuttal witnesses.

Prosecutor called 3 rebuttal witnesses:

Bre Wilbur who was on the bridge. Just went over what she saw.

Harshman talked about what he saw and different jails Allen was in and what a one man cell means, etc.

Dr. Martin was Allen’s psychiatrist in Westville. Incredibly interesting, kind of long winded. Very detailed and articulate. Lots of objections. Explained when he noticed psychosis, and documented each visit. Medications. Dosages. How it worked out.

At very end he mentioned a date and said no evidence of psychosis. So good he took him off all medication. On free will said Allen said he wanted to apologize to families.

 

[photographer4]

Amazed the defense didn't call any of Allen's friends or work colleagues to testify what a stand up fella he is?

Maybe he isn't?

Why open the door to character for the State?

 

[m00c0w]

Lauren's doing a live - the prosecution has already finished with its rebuttal witnesses.

Wow - that bit about the psychiatrist is very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

If the state, judge and jury was caught off guard about the D resting so soon, that's kind of unusual----usually they'd be updating every morning about how many witnesses remain, so the judge has a way manage the time. If it was a surprise, that could be one of two things.

Maybe the D purposely pretended to keep going---then suddenly quit so the P would not be ready for their rebuttal?

OR maybe the D just ran out of witnesses or decided to just quit while they felt they were on a high note?

Or….maybe RA finally stood up to them and told them to stop. I doubt that though.
I think the defense has always known they could not defend RA in trial. That he was factually guilty, the opposite of what they originally said.
They are more interested in the appellate phase. The truly want to get this child murderer off on a legal technicality. I don’t believe they will succeed there either.

 

[photographer4]

And CVS time sheets for Feb 13th and several days following. Vacation/called in sick, instead we know nothing.

If he had called out sick or whatnot in the immediate aftermath, I kinda think the State would have been sure to point this out and admit work records accordingly. I imagine they'd have wanted to point out any HR issues as well (eg: IF there had been conflict between him and any colleagues etc ever). But... none of this was entered into evidence or testified to so I'm left to believe nothing there of concern. Couldn't find anything to infer guilt from like they tried to do with his google searches..... MOO.

 

[MassGuy]

Wow - that bit about the psychiatrist is very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

That’s devastating. His name had come up but I don’t think the jury had heard from him until now.

Sounds pretty devastating. I’d love to know if there were juror questions/what they were.

 

[MassGuy]

Among witnesses, psychiatrist who treated Richard Allen at Westville Correctional Facility says he diagnosed an antipsychotic drug in April 2023 after Allen showed signs of psychosis. Drug administered lasted until June 2023

Allen had improved enough to stop the involuntary injections. That was June 20, 2023.

Same day, doctor says, Allen confessed, saying he wanted to “apologize to the families of my victims.”

Doctor says it came under no duress or pressure. 4/

After 7 weeks of no signs of psychosis, doctor says…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854220751521317367

 

[fred&edna]

I believe it was before

I think you're correct. I don't think sketches or anything else was released to the public until the 17th. (I may have to track down a link for that, though... my memory could be wrong on that aspect)

The sheet said that on Feb. 16, 2017 -- three days after the murders -- a person listed as "Richard Allen Whiteman" self-reported being on the trails between 1:30 p.m. and 3:30 p.m. on the day of the crime. According to Shank, the self-reporter listed seeing three girls.

Delphi suspect went to police 3 days after murders, but 'fell in the cracks' for years, sheriff says

On day seven of the Delphi double-murder trial Friday, a firearms expert took the stand to testify about a bullet found between the bodies of Libby German and Abby Williams.

abc7chicago.com

jmo

 

[AugustWest]

Is it common to avoid work records, friends, coworkers, etc. in your experience or that you’ve noticed, if at all? The OP picked up on that & it really wasn’t discussed much that I recall. I do understand your point above but if the accused is so innocent as claimed by the P’s opening statement, where’s the support of the "fragile egg"?

I hope I’m clarifying my question & surprise. I’m not trying to take cheap shots at RA - just thinking what the jury may wonder. Here sits a supposedly innocent man & we’ve heard nothing so far from anyone who would associate with him other than his step sister & daughter. Just seems like that could be interpreted as trying to cloak reality. Hard to explain it, as I’m trying to perceive this unbiased from my personal opinions & all. I suppose it’s all the burden of proof thing again & the state didn’t open those "personal life" doors either, just stuck to their accusations.

The prosecution isn't allowed to use character evidence to prove a person acted in a certain manner because he did so or has in the past. Prosecution isn't allowed to use past crimes either. This is the essence of Rule 404:

Evidence of a person’s character or character trait is not admissible to prove that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character or trait.

The only way this evidence can be introduced is by a defense offering up character evidence themselves.

(A) a defendant may offer evidence of the defendant’s pertinent trait, and if the evidence is admitted, the prosecutor may offer evidence to rebut it...

So as a defendant you are better off just not offering up character evidence, or the neighbor down the street who doesn't like your dog barking is making you look like a bad person. It's just a strategic decision.

Rule 404. Character Evidence; Other Crimes, Wrongs, or Acts

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[INfisherman]

The prosecution isn't allowed to use character evidence to prove a person acted in a certain manner because he did so or has in the past. Prosecution isn't allowed to use past crimes either. This is the essence of Rule 404:

The only way this evidence can be introduced is by a defense offering up character evidence themselves.

So as a defendant you are better off just not offering up character evidence, or the neighbor down the street who doesn't like your dog barking is making you look like a bad person. It's just a strategic decision.

Rule 404. Character Evidence; Other Crimes, Wrongs, or Acts

www.law.cornell.edu

Thank you - appreciate the detailed response. I was overthinking it.

ETA - You never responded about all the beaten dead horses. Will there be a case & any chance you’d represent them? Only kidding - levity purposes only.

 

[m00c0w]

The defense attorney also suggested the girls may have gone up an access road, gotten into another vehicle and were killed elsewhere before being taken back to where their bodies were discovered near Deer Creek.

Baldwin cast doubt on the state’s theory. He argued that the state’s timeline of the killing doesn’t fit if security video evidence showed Allen’s car had left the area of the Monon High Bridge Nature Trial before the murders occurred.

Baldwin walked the jury through the defense team’s version: that Bridge Guy and perhaps others accosted the girls at the south end of the bridge, loaded them into a vehicle and drove away, only to return twelve hours later to kill the victims near Deer Creek.

The attorney said fruitless searches of the area the night before, activity on Libby’s cell phone twelve hours after investigators believe the girls were dead and the complexity of the crime showed the murders would be beyond the ability of one man of modest stature to carry out with two different knives.

The defense made some big claims and I’m not sure they provided much to actually support these claims. And most importantly, they never really accounted for Allen during all of this. That’s rough.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/state-defense-deliver-opening-statements-in-delphi-murders-trial/

 

[Tortoise]

I think you're correct. I don't think sketches or anything else was released to the public until the 17th. (I may have to track down a link for that, though... my memory could be wrong on that aspect)

The sheet said that on Feb. 16, 2017 -- three days after the murders -- a person listed as "Richard Allen Whiteman" self-reported being on the trails between 1:30 p.m. and 3:30 p.m. on the day of the crime. According to Shank, the self-reporter listed seeing three girls.

Delphi suspect went to police 3 days after murders, but 'fell in the cracks' for years, sheriff says

On day seven of the Delphi double-murder trial Friday, a firearms expert took the stand to testify about a bullet found between the bodies of Libby German and Abby Williams.

abc7chicago.com

jmo

https://www.facebook.com/WRTV6/posts/10154526933569092

15th Feb 2017

For some reason it's blocked the image, but it can be seen at the link ISP: "We're going to track them down"

Indiana State Police released the photo below on Wednesday. They say this man was on the Delphi Historic Trail around the time that Abby and Libby were there. They want to speak to him about what he may have seen.