Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212

Status
Not open for further replies.
At one point, the defense team left the courtroom, which remained silent for a long period of time before Allen’s attorneys returned. The prosecution and defense ultimately had no objections to jury instructions. Richard Allen will not testify in his own defense.


Rozzi asked Special Judge Fran Gull for additional time to submit a proposal on how to judge the credibility of Allen’s incriminating statements; Gull said the defense had until the “end of business” to submit one.



Updated: Nov 6, 2024 / 12:35 PM EST
 
I'm no fan of RA but his attorneys did him a real disservice IMO. He was never a stable, ordinary CVS worker. He was fragile, volatile, needy, and as such, dangerous. He brought that to the bridge, he carried it until he was arrested and he brought it with him into his cell.

It might have been an act of mercy (and law) to broker a guilty plea, on his behalf. No theatrics, no threats. In prison, RA will have access to therapy, medical care, perhaps AA or something of the kind. He will likely be afforded a one-man cell, for even if he's no longer a risk to himself or staff (something that can still change on a dime), he will always be a risk in gen pop, two-fold. Prison justice is real, but also, he's easily provoked. He needs to be protected from that if he's to live out LWOP and die of natural old age, whenever that might be.

He wanted to confess and he was blocked. His family wouldn't believe him, wouldn't talk to him, his attorneys were basically vacant, working apart from him and arguably against his free will. Inventing harmful, fanciful tales, incriminating innocent people, all while their client couldn't handle the truth of what he'd done and the fear he'd effed up too far this time. And yet, he set his sights on eternity, even considered he might have to let KA go...

The conflict was never Odinism, guards, name-your-conspiracy. The conflict was always RA. RA himself, a deeply conflicted man, who needed to feel powerful that day, for reasons we may never know, and it ended in the brutal slaughter of two beautiful young lives.

There is no sorry to repair that. But a confession and a guilty an entire year ago would have spared everyone this profane circus.

FRANKly, his attorneys should have listened to him.

I am ready to turn the page on him. Abby and Libby, their lives, their laughter, and the lives they should be living -- that will stick with me.

Bring on another double rainbow.

JMO
 
I feel the quicker the deliberation, the more likely guilty. The longer, I would be more concerned with not guilty or hung jury.

MOO
There’s just a lot more nuance here than in most murder cases. There’s also no smoking gun like many cases have (DNA).

Generally the shorter the deliberation, the better for the prosecution. I just don’t see this being quick though, so even if it goes a couple days I wouldn’t be worried about a not guilty.
 
A phone call comes in. The phone vibrates to alert, either with or without the ringer sound on. If there is moisture or dirt on the external edge of the headphone jack, the vibrations jolts them enough that they move inside headphone jack, completing the circuit and making the phone think something was plugged in.

Personally, I vote for moisture, which then evaporated enough later on for that circuit to no longer be completed.

I don't think the phone got drenched crossing the creek. I think it was damp and the case it was in afforded it some protection. But it doesn't take a lot of moisture to confuse an audio jack--far less than an amount would register as water damage to the phone or show up as lasting damage to internal circuitry.
Snipped
Libby’s phone -- in its Harry Potter-themed case -- was found underneath Abby’s body, Olehy said.

She was a HP fan…..

Jmo
 
When they say he was given involuntary injections of Halderol, how does that work? Did they strap him to a medical cot and physically force him to take this medicine? Did RA even know he had been given the shot and/or what it was? Sounds like they did this multiple times. I would think after the first time that he would know what was coming and physically resist. So would they force him to let them strap him down by wrestling him into the straps or what? I just don't know how all that works, but it sounds like it could have been a messy, violent process. I guess I didn't realize that we ever forced detainees to take meds.
 
I think you're correct. I don't think sketches or anything else was released to the public until the 17th. (I may have to track down a link for that, though... my memory could be wrong on that aspect)

The sheet said that on Feb. 16, 2017 -- three days after the murders -- a person listed as "Richard Allen Whiteman" self-reported being on the trails between 1:30 p.m. and 3:30 p.m. on the day of the crime. According to Shank, the self-reporter listed seeing three girls.



jmo
I had it in my head RA talked to DD a day or two before the BG pic came out. I lost all my links I had saved for stuff and I'm flying blind having to start collecting all over. Do you know the date of the BG photo being released?
 
I am shocked at how little the prosecution brought to this trial. There is no way you can convict RA beyond a reasonable doubt based on what was brought to trial. Before the trial I believed RA was guilty. After the trial, I believe he is an innocent man that was railroaded.
 
There’s just a lot more nuance here than in most murder cases. There’s also no smoking gun like many cases have (DNA).

Generally the shorter the deliberation, the better for the prosecution. I just don’t see this being quick though, so even if it goes a couple days I wouldn’t be worried about a not guilty.
I should probably have been more clear with what I would consider a longer deliberation. Multiple days, probably more than 3-4 (something considered grueling by most standards) . I’m not an experienced trial follower/observer so my opinion isn’t worth the dirt on my shoe treads as far as that goes. Just takes one juror that sees something differently, and that’s really my only concern TBH.

MOO
 
I am shocked at how little the prosecution brought to this trial. There is no way you can convict RA beyond a reasonable doubt based on what was brought to trial. Before the trial I believed RA was guilty. After the trial, I believe he is an innocent man that was railroaded.
Indeed-I couldn’t agree more
 
When they say he was given involuntary injections of Halderol, how does that work? Did they strap him to a medical cot and physically force him to take this medicine? Did RA even know he had been given the shot and/or what it was? Sounds like they did this multiple times. I would think after the first time that he would know what was coming and physically resist. So would they force him to let them strap him down by wrestling him into the straps or what? I just don't know how all that works, but it sounds like it could have been a messy, violent process. I guess I didn't realize that we ever forced detainees to take meds.
He was wearing some sort of suicide prevention clothing referred to as a kimono, so that might have made the whole ordeal appear less violent/concerning. Hard to definitively address that in detail given the situation with the media IMO

ETA context
 
As this winds down, I can't help but to think of the courage between Abby and Libby, facing hell that day. The video, the phone, the handprint.

Had RA's tip not gotten lost in the flurry of an uncoordinated blow up of a shifting investigation, no doubt RA would have started with denial and then anger. Anger hovers barely below his surface. The right pair of detectives, RA would have incriminated himself and walked himself right into handcuffs.

If there is any reward here, it ought to go to the estates of Abby and Libby who fought the face of evil that day. The delay in justice, while unfortunate/devastating, it did break open the largest CSAM investigation in Indiana history. Saving other lives.

Crying softly for their lives...

A trial doesn't bring them back.

JMO
 
Last edited:
Martin said all three psychologists agreed Richard Allen was psychotic and he proceeded with the first treatment on April 14, 2023.

He testified that he gave Allen 5 milligrams of short-acting Haldol and that the maximum dose is 100 mg.

Martin said he administered such a small dose because he wanted to make sure Allen didn’t have a reaction.

After that, Allen was injected with a 15 mg dose of long-acting Haldol one every four weeks, with the first dose administered on April 18, 2023.

Martin said he saw Allen one week later and that Allen was “still psychotic” but there was “some improvement.”

He described the “improvement” as there being no evidence of smearing feces and that Allen would recognize him but he did not know the date.

Martin told the court that Allen knew he was in prison and asked for his wife and Taco Bell. There was also improvement in Allen’s coherence, eating and sleeping.

He said that he believed April 13 was the height of Allen’s psychosis.

Martin said he saw Allen several times in May, and each time, Allen was “coherent” and there was “no evidence” of psychosis By the end of the month, Allen was eating meals and had spoken to his wife.

On June 20, Allen had gone seven weeks without showing signs of psychosis and Martin decided to stop the Haldol injections.

Martin said Allen told him that day, “I would like to apologize to the families of my victims.”

He told the court Allen was “not psychotic” at the time of the statement.
Delphi Murders trial: Day 17 live blog

In another call to his mother, Janis Allen, on May 17, 2023, Allen seemed to be anxious that his family would no longer love him because he'd confessed to killing Abby and Libby. Here's what they said:

Richard Allen: "I'm just worried you guys aren't gonna love me because of the fact that I said that I did it."

Janice Allen: "Just saying it doesn't mean you did it."

RA: "Well, it does when I did."

JA: "Rick, don't talk like this. I think they're just messing with you."

RA: "No, mom. They're not."
Defense calls first 2 witnesses after state rests its case in Delphi murders trial
 
I'm no fan of RA but his attorneys did him a real disservice IMO. He was never a stable, ordinary CVS worker. He was fragile, volatile, needy, and as such, dangerous. He brought that to the bridge, he carried it until he was arrested and he brought it with him into his cell.

It might have been an act of mercy (and law) to broker a guilty plea, on his behalf. No theatrics, no threats. In prison, RA will have access to therapy, medical care, perhaps AA or something of the kind. He will likely be afforded a one-man cell, for even if he's no longer a risk to himself or staff (something that can still change on a dime), he will always be a risk in gen pop, two-fold. Prison justice is real, but also, he's easily provoked. He needs to be protected from that if he's to live out LWOP and die of natural old age, whenever that might be.

He wanted to confess and he was blocked. His family wouldn't believe him, wouldn't talk to him, his attorneys were basically vacant, working apart from him and arguably against his free will. Inventing harmful, fanciful tales, incriminating innocent people, all while their client couldn't handle the truth of what he'd done and the fear he'd effed up too far this time. And yet, he set his sights on eternity, even considered he might have to let KA go...

The conflict was never Odinism, guards, name-your-conspiracy. The conflict was always RA. RA himself, a deeply conflicted man, who needed to feel powerful that day, for reasons we may never know, and it ended in the brutal slaughter of two beautiful young lives.

There is no sorry to repair that. But a confession and a guilty an entire year ago would have spared everyone this profane circus.

FRANKly, his attorneys should have listened to him.

I am ready to turn the page on him. Abby and Libby, their lives, their laughter, and the lives they should be living -- that will stick with me.

Bring on another double rainbow.

JMO
Well said, @Megnut!

However, not sure how much help he will receive for his mental health issues while he is incarcerated.

He is in desperate need of help.

Maybe he is already receiving help and I missed that info.

It is too bad as a society that more assistance for mental health issues isn't available to those who struggle with a mental health condition. Depression alone is challenging for many.

Perhaps, the murder of two innocent children could have been prevented?

idk, dont have the answers.

I only know that Abby & Libby should be here, alive and well.

jmo
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
112
Guests online
820
Total visitors
932

Forum statistics

Threads
625,990
Messages
18,518,129
Members
240,922
Latest member
corticohealth
Back
Top