VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #213

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Fair enough!

But no one called to say it was Richard Allen's voice and the only call that did come in about Richard Allen was from Richard Allen himself - just to let them know he had been to the trail that day.

JMO MOO JMT
EXACTLY. It seems he began confessing from the jump.

" only call that did come in about Richard Allen was from Richard Allen himself - just to let them know he had been to the trail that day."
 
I don’t think it really says anything about anything that no screams were heard. There could be a lot of reasons.
Unless the reasons are made clear, why is it still being discussed? It’s an absolutely horrific mental picture, that serves no purpose in determining RA’s innocence or guilt.

jmo
 
It’s ridiculous for anyone to even try to make a comparison based on 2 seconds of poor audio quality.
I have a question for you - do you think that the totality of Wala's behaviors amounts to acting as an Agent of the police or in Agency for the prosecution?

Wala held herself out to Allen as "healthcare provider and therapist" but her actions researching the case, discussing the case with others, trolling for information, breeching the DoC computer, etc., then talking to Allen about the case instead of his healthcare, and the reporting to the police or prosecution - all of this IMO and IANAL is tantamount to legal Agency (and trickery or fraud in Agency). Judge Gull's ruling allowing thus tainted testimony is certainly an appeal point. What do you think?
 
Unless the reasons are made clear, why is it still being discussed? It’s an absolutely horrific mental picture, that serves no purpose in determining RA’s innocence or guilt.

jmo
Yeah, my test for if something matters is... if hypothetically, it was some other monster that did this, would it make a difference to his guilt? The answer to a scream is no. So it's a non issue. It's neutral to his guilt. All it does is put it like these sweet children should have done something differently. Which they definitely did the best they could and did much better than most would! I have never followed a case where a victim got their killer on film, when it was a sneak attack. They did an amazing job!!! They deserve sooooo much credit for him being caught.
 
My Own Experience: I had fake blood up my nose, and was lying down - the liquid got to my throat and I started choking, took me at least a few minutes of coughing before I was able to as much as breathe. Depends on how the poor girls were placed, how the blood flowed.

Questions and images that haunt me, personally.

All MOO
I'm lost! Why is screaming an issue? If they didn't scream, the killer wasn't RA? Huh?

jmo
 
Let’s pretend Abby should have screamed as she lay bleeding profusely from her neck. Maybe she tried, and her windpipe was full of blood. That is what the jury would picture.

Maybe she did try, and no one heard her. That doesn’t lead to RA must be innocent.

What was the intended point by defense? Back to the narrative where the girls were moved and brought back?

It was a vile way to try and make a roundabout point.

jmo

There is some reason RA got on top of her after Libby was slashed first. Abby may have screamed so he straddled her and possibly covered her mouth with his forearm before he slashed her.
There was a faint line by her mouth/chin but there was no tape residue.
Haunting to think about.
 
Now that the evidence is in, I really do not have a firm opinion about whether Richard Allen is the killer. I was hoping for more convincing proof from the State, but they did not deliver IMO

Here are just some of the problems/questions I have about the State’s case:

  1. Many of their witnesses seemed to tailor their testimony for trial, changing testimony from what they had said previously.
  2. There were problems with the testimony of most, if not all, of their experts.
  3. They did not firm up the timeline, but actually cast more doubt about it. If the HH video ~1:30 was Richard Allen’s Ford Focus, it was driving in the wrong direction for RA to be entering the trails, but would have been more consistent with RA leaving the trails and heading home.
  4. All of the witness descriptions of BG or whoever they saw do not even remotely describe RA, and importantly no one identified him in court.
  5. Since all the interview recordings for the first couple of weeks were lost, I’m not sure I believe that RA initially said he was on the trials from 1:30-3:30.
  6. I think the State unethically tried to enter the “confessions” as truthful when they knew they were unreliable and while RA was psychotic.
  7. The bullet expert couldn’t get consistent marks by cycling the bullet through RA’s gun.
  8. It was never verified where RA parked or at what time or what time he left.
  9. And importantly I do not think this was a fair trial. I think the defense should have been permitted to put in their defense, and I think the judge’s evidentiary rulings in the trial were very biased from the reporting I’ve read.
  10. While not related to the trial specifically, the behavior of the prosecutors pre-trial was abominable IMO Trying to disqualify RA’s attorneys, not turning over evidence timely, opposing motions to transfer RA to better conditions, etc.
With all that in mind, I do not trust much of the State’s evidence and I think they have failed to prove RA was the killer.
 

State makes its case​

McLeland went first, delivering closing arguments that lasted a little more than an hour.

He described how Abby and Libby went to the trails on Feb. 13, 2017, and never came back. He described it as a “day this community will never forget.”

He said Libby’s older sister drove them to the trails and dropped them off at 1:48 p.m. When Libby German’s father arrived to pick them up around 3 p.m., they didn’t show up at the prearranged meeting spot. More alarmingly, no one could contact them.

He went looking for the girls but didn’t find them. He called Libby’s grandmother, Becky Patty, at 3:30 p.m., leading to additional family searches. Still, no one could find or contact the girls.

The search grew throughout the day and lasted until 2 a.m., when it became too dark and too dangerous.

“No one thought anything bad had happened to Abby and Libby,” McLeland said. “That doesn’t happen around here.”

Searcher Pat Brown found the bodies on Feb. 14, 2017, and said they “looked like mannequins.”


‘Bridge Guy’ and a bullet​

Next, McLeland showed crime scene photos, telling the court that “these next pictures are hard to see.” While processing the crime scene, investigators found Libby’s phone and the bullet that became central to the state’s case.

McLeland mentioned the “Bridge Guy” video found on Libby’s phone and played it for the jury. The video was taken at 2:13 p.m. and, in McLeland’s estimation, showed the “moment Abby and Libby were kidnapped.”


He said “Bridge Guy” ordered them down the hill and used a gun to intimidate them. He played an “enhanced” version of the video with the “down the hill” part amplified.

He recounted numerous witnesses who saw someone on the high bridge and mentioned Sarah Carbaugh, who told investigators she saw a man who was “muddy and bloody” walking along the road around 4 p.m.

McLeland noted that descriptions from the witnesses varied somewhat, but all were “adamant” they’d encountered “Bridge Guy.”

McLeland mentioned Steve Mullin, the former Delphi police chief and investigator for the prosecutor’s office, who looked at video from the nearby Hoosier Harvest Store. Forensic experts analyzed Libby’s phone, which indicated the girls arrived on the trails at 1:48 p.m. and walked to the Monon High Bridge.


At 2:32 p.m., the analysis found, Libby’s phone stopped moving and stayed where it was.

McLeland then brought up a map and reviewed the timeline of events. One witness and her friends encountered “Bridge Guy” at 1:26 p.m. Another witness saw “Bridge Guy” and passed the previous witnesses, he said.

“If we determine who ‘Bridge Guy’ is, we can find out who killed them,” McLeland said.


Suspicion falls on Allen​

He recounted how in September 2022 Kathy Shank, a volunteer who helped police organize tips related to the Delphi murders, came across a “tip sheet” from 2017 that indicated a person told a DNR investigator he’d been on the bridge between 1:30 p.m. and 3:30 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017.

The man’s name was Richard Allen. It appeared no one had followed up on him.

Further investigation found Allen owned a black 2016 Ford Focus SE. McLeland said, only one such model of that car was registered in Carroll County in February 2017. Investigators believe the car matched video from the Hoosier Harvest Store.


Police called Allen for an interview. He said he was wearing clothes similar to “Bridge Guy.” The interview started out polite but soon turned hostile, with Allen refusing to let investigators look at his phone or search his house.

Police obtained a search warrant. The search turned up knives, box cutters and a blue Carhartt jacket.

“Surprise, surprise,” McLeland said, “Same as ‘Bridge Guy’ was wearing.”

The search turned up a .40 caliber round kept in a “hope box” and a Sig Sauer P226 handgun. McLeland described it as the “‘Bridge Guy’ starter kit.”

Investigators recovered numerous electronic devices from Allen’s home, but they didn’t find the phone he had in 2017.

An Indiana State Police crime lab technician determined that the bullet found at the crime scene was cycled through Allen’s Sig Sauer.

“Oh, and her results were verified,” McLeland said of the analysis from Melissa Oberg.

During a follow-up interview with police, Allen said he never loaned his gun to anyone and had no explanation for how a bullet matched to his gun ended up at the scene of one of Indiana’s most infamous murder cases.

Police suggested that Allen racked his gun to intimidate the girls into doing what he told them. Allen grew angrier during the interview.


 

State makes its case​

McLeland went first, delivering closing arguments that lasted a little more than an hour.

He described how Abby and Libby went to the trails on Feb. 13, 2017, and never came back. He described it as a “day this community will never forget.”

He said Libby’s older sister drove them to the trails and dropped them off at 1:48 p.m. When Libby German’s father arrived to pick them up around 3 p.m., they didn’t show up at the prearranged meeting spot. More alarmingly, no one could contact them.

He went looking for the girls but didn’t find them. He called Libby’s grandmother, Becky Patty, at 3:30 p.m., leading to additional family searches. Still, no one could find or contact the girls.

The search grew throughout the day and lasted until 2 a.m., when it became too dark and too dangerous.

“No one thought anything bad had happened to Abby and Libby,” McLeland said. “That doesn’t happen around here.”

Searcher Pat Brown found the bodies on Feb. 14, 2017, and said they “looked like mannequins.”


‘Bridge Guy’ and a bullet​

Next, McLeland showed crime scene photos, telling the court that “these next pictures are hard to see.” While processing the crime scene, investigators found Libby’s phone and the bullet that became central to the state’s case.

McLeland mentioned the “Bridge Guy” video found on Libby’s phone and played it for the jury. The video was taken at 2:13 p.m. and, in McLeland’s estimation, showed the “moment Abby and Libby were kidnapped.”


He said “Bridge Guy” ordered them down the hill and used a gun to intimidate them. He played an “enhanced” version of the video with the “down the hill” part amplified.

He recounted numerous witnesses who saw someone on the high bridge and mentioned Sarah Carbaugh, who told investigators she saw a man who was “muddy and bloody” walking along the road around 4 p.m.

McLeland noted that descriptions from the witnesses varied somewhat, but all were “adamant” they’d encountered “Bridge Guy.”

McLeland mentioned Steve Mullin, the former Delphi police chief and investigator for the prosecutor’s office, who looked at video from the nearby Hoosier Harvest Store. Forensic experts analyzed Libby’s phone, which indicated the girls arrived on the trails at 1:48 p.m. and walked to the Monon High Bridge.


At 2:32 p.m., the analysis found, Libby’s phone stopped moving and stayed where it was.

McLeland then brought up a map and reviewed the timeline of events. One witness and her friends encountered “Bridge Guy” at 1:26 p.m. Another witness saw “Bridge Guy” and passed the previous witnesses, he said.

“If we determine who ‘Bridge Guy’ is, we can find out who killed them,” McLeland said.


Suspicion falls on Allen​

He recounted how in September 2022 Kathy Shank, a volunteer who helped police organize tips related to the Delphi murders, came across a “tip sheet” from 2017 that indicated a person told a DNR investigator he’d been on the bridge between 1:30 p.m. and 3:30 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017.

The man’s name was Richard Allen. It appeared no one had followed up on him.

Further investigation found Allen owned a black 2016 Ford Focus SE. McLeland said, only one such model of that car was registered in Carroll County in February 2017. Investigators believe the car matched video from the Hoosier Harvest Store.


Police called Allen for an interview. He said he was wearing clothes similar to “Bridge Guy.” The interview started out polite but soon turned hostile, with Allen refusing to let investigators look at his phone or search his house.

Police obtained a search warrant. The search turned up knives, box cutters and a blue Carhartt jacket.

“Surprise, surprise,” McLeland said, “Same as ‘Bridge Guy’ was wearing.”

The search turned up a .40 caliber round kept in a “hope box” and a Sig Sauer P226 handgun. McLeland described it as the “‘Bridge Guy’ starter kit.”

Investigators recovered numerous electronic devices from Allen’s home, but they didn’t find the phone he had in 2017.

An Indiana State Police crime lab technician determined that the bullet found at the crime scene was cycled through Allen’s Sig Sauer.

“Oh, and her results were verified,” McLeland said of the analysis from Melissa Oberg.

During a follow-up interview with police, Allen said he never loaned his gun to anyone and had no explanation for how a bullet matched to his gun ended up at the scene of one of Indiana’s most infamous murder cases.

Police suggested that Allen racked his gun to intimidate the girls into doing what he told them. Allen grew angrier during the interview.


Continued

Confessions central to state’s case​

McLeland said Allen was moved from a county jail to a state prison for his own safety. Once housed at Westville Correctional Facility, “he starts to confess,” the prosecutor said. He mentioned calls Allen made to his wife and mother. He played some of them in court.

“I did it. Just know I did it,” Allen said in the call. “I killed Abby and Libby.”

“They’re screwing with you there,” his wife, Kathy Allen, said.

“I think I did it,” Allen told his wife. “I wish they would kill me or let me apologize to the families at least.”


McLeland recounted the testimony of Dr. Monica Wala, the prison psychologist who treated Allen at Westville and heard him confess. He told her his motive was sexual in nature and he took the girls’ lives “in order to preserve his own.” He eventually gave Wala a more detailed account about Feb. 13, 2017, and said he saw a white van that startled him.

Wala said Allen admitted he’d killed the girls and made sure they were dead so they “didn’t suffer.”

McLeland played another phone call.

“Did Kathy tell you I did it?” Allen asked his mother.

“We’re not going to discuss this, okay?” she answered. “We love you, you know that, don’t you?”

“I’m worried that you guys aren’t going to love me because I said I did it,” Allen replied.

The prosecutor described Allen’s admissions as “unprovoked.” He mentioned a letter Allen sent to the warden and another statement he made about throwing a box cutter in a CVS dumpster.


He pointed to testimony from ISP Master Trooper Brian Harshman, who listened to Allen’s phone calls and noticed the detail about the van in Allen’s confession.

McLeland described it as “a detail only the killer would know.”

McLeland said the van was that of Brad Weber, who owns property across from the crime scene. Weber testified he clocked out of work around 2:02 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, and drove by the crime scene on an access road around 2:30 p.m.

According to the state’s theory, that’s around the time of the murders. The state suggested Allen saw the van, which spooked him, and then killed the girls.

Harshman also testified, after listening to hours of phone calls from Allen, that the voice on the “Bridge Guy” video belonged to Allen. Harshman had “no doubt” in his mind.

McLeland’s closing​

McLeland said he had proved elements of each count Allen faces.

“The day started out like any other day,” the prosecutor said. “But that day ‘Bridge Guy’ stole the youth and light out of Abby and Libby.”

He said no one out on the trail that day matched the description of “Bridge Guy” except for Allen. He estimated Allen had about seven minutes with the girls before Weber drove down the access road and spooked him.


He told the court Allen slashed Libby’s throat first and then killed Abby.

“If that’s not enough to convince you, we have his confessions,” McLeland said.

He said he believes the evidence showed Allen was responsible for killing the girls, asked the jury to consider all the evidence and implored them to find him guilty.

McLeland wrapped up at 10:22 a.m.

 
Totally agree. I used to work with clients in Indiana and occasionally traveled there or through Indiana and it's a nightmare to keep track of what time it is where LOL. I haven't even taken the time to find Delphi on a map as that is a town apparently I never drove through and didn't ring a "location" bell in my head.
 
Last edited:
This is a very good point.

I started this Trial because I have a daughter who was the same age as Abby when this occurred and at the time it impacted the sense of foreboding I had as a parent allowing her to explore and be a kid in our very rural area. It was sort of a wake up call to me that I could not assume safety. In a way, it stripped from me the feeling that I was providing a place for my kids to grow up with similar freedom and innocence as I had the gift of growing up in.

However, I did not follow this when it was a case. I was not privy to the frustrations in the investigation. I was unaware of any other POI, or theory. I quite literally started this trial as close to a juror as could be. I knew the basics. 2 girls on a hike end up leaving this life in a brutal fashion. I had seen the 2 sketches, and other than a passing wonder, how could they appear so different, no additional thought. I had heard the creepy DTH audio, and saw a still of BG but could not have described his clothing even remotely. I did not even know the defendants name.

Because I was this way and there were so many threads, I decided to try this trial in a way I have not previously. I have tried to skim the threads, and read the MSM posting of the testimony. I have not gone back to motions, or theories to consider what was previous. I have had some exposure to it from general discussion in skimming the threads, but other than the Odinism name in the threads I still do not know what exactly that is supposed to suggest happened.

With this in mind I can tell you I was shocked as I learned the COD was from sharp force trauma. I was first introduced to the idea of a box cutter from the testimony. I did pick up that was an afterthought, but then I think most reports will have additions or afterthoughts for clarity as time passes and experts reflect on their findings, so I do not find this point to be a problem. I then learned for the first time that RA reports being on the trails. I learn of witnesses that clearly identify BG as someone they saw. I agree that witness testimony is not completely aligned, but I am open in my thoughts since I too, played the game in college where we got exposed to something and then after the incident had passed were challenged to describe the person or thing. I tend to view eyewitness testimony as guidance because of this.

By this stage I was thinking. Yes, BG was on the trails. RA was on the trails, and RA seems to be wavering on his time at the trails. That wavering makes me curious, but not sure it is him.

I then hear how the crime occurs from DTH to where the crime finished. The testimony was clear, and heartbreaking, but left me with no doubt BG is the killer. But BG is not necessarily RA.

Then the bullet. I am inclined to accept the bullet marks as identifying. This may be from my background in failure analysis and decades of seeing microscopic marks and trying to assign identifying features that identify where a failure is occurring, it also could be the one time I broke my try to be a juror approach and did my own anecdotal test on cartridge extraction. Either way, I place a high value on the cartridge being linked to the gun RA owns. Especially with the unique identifier pointed out where the ejector has an anomaly which was also highlighted in a juror question to the Defense expert. I am now at RA=BG=Killer.

Then I heard confessions, and in some ways this began to make me reconsider my thoughts. I think there was plenty of crazy utterances and "confessions" that were not worthy of being presented. However, once the white van confession was presented, and the logic in how that confession started the search for a white van, and that white van was indeed found and placed near the crime scene, and at the time just right to explain the distraction mentioned in the confession. I can not accept that confession is not based on knowledge only held by the killer. Psychosis or not the details support the veracity in my opinion. I was moved and impacted by the defense and their experts. I absolutely feel there was excited utterances of guilt and that is likely due to psychosis. I also agree the isolation may have caused or exacerbated those. It still does not change the details that were backed up by the van being there at the right time in the right place.

I have listened to the defense I considered their counters. I find the counter ejector mark expert weak, in many ways he discounts his own expertise by discounting approved accepted standards, to then simply say the most important tool he has is himself....

So I as a juror would be entering the deliberations from the perspective that the state proved the case and vote guilty.

Sorry for the novel, but thought it would be interesting sharing the perspective having come in without background knowledge on all the details.

Obviously my opinion only.
Great Post !!!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts today !!
 
I think the jury will spend the day tomorrow reviewing notes and things they feel need clarification.

Anyone know how they get clarifications?

For example, if some of their notes say the reported confession included "white van" and some say it was just "van", how is that clarified, since they cannot look at transcripts (which just seems strange to me).
 
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Abby's trachea was intact so I think that means she possibly could have screamed. I swear I also thought RA said something about that in a confession, but now I can't find it.


Rozzi then asked if the 5-10 minutes it would take to die from the cuts would have given Abby time to react. Rozzi mentioned running or screaming. Rozzi noted Abby's trachea was intact.

It doesn't matter because if she did scream no one heard her. But I remembered this testimony so thought I would post.
 
Continued

Confessions central to state’s case​

McLeland said Allen was moved from a county jail to a state prison for his own safety. Once housed at Westville Correctional Facility, “he starts to confess,” the prosecutor said. He mentioned calls Allen made to his wife and mother. He played some of them in court.

“I did it. Just know I did it,” Allen said in the call. “I killed Abby and Libby.”

“They’re screwing with you there,” his wife, Kathy Allen, said.

“I think I did it,” Allen told his wife. “I wish they would kill me or let me apologize to the families at least.”


McLeland recounted the testimony of Dr. Monica Wala, the prison psychologist who treated Allen at Westville and heard him confess. He told her his motive was sexual in nature and he took the girls’ lives “in order to preserve his own.” He eventually gave Wala a more detailed account about Feb. 13, 2017, and said he saw a white van that startled him.

Wala said Allen admitted he’d killed the girls and made sure they were dead so they “didn’t suffer.”

McLeland played another phone call.

“Did Kathy tell you I did it?” Allen asked his mother.

“We’re not going to discuss this, okay?” she answered. “We love you, you know that, don’t you?”

“I’m worried that you guys aren’t going to love me because I said I did it,” Allen replied.

The prosecutor described Allen’s admissions as “unprovoked.” He mentioned a letter Allen sent to the warden and another statement he made about throwing a box cutter in a CVS dumpster.


He pointed to testimony from ISP Master Trooper Brian Harshman, who listened to Allen’s phone calls and noticed the detail about the van in Allen’s confession.

McLeland described it as “a detail only the killer would know.”

McLeland said the van was that of Brad Weber, who owns property across from the crime scene. Weber testified he clocked out of work around 2:02 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, and drove by the crime scene on an access road around 2:30 p.m.

According to the state’s theory, that’s around the time of the murders. The state suggested Allen saw the van, which spooked him, and then killed the girls.

Harshman also testified, after listening to hours of phone calls from Allen, that the voice on the “Bridge Guy” video belonged to Allen. Harshman had “no doubt” in his mind.

McLeland’s closing​

McLeland said he had proved elements of each count Allen faces.

“The day started out like any other day,” the prosecutor said. “But that day ‘Bridge Guy’ stole the youth and light out of Abby and Libby.”

He said no one out on the trail that day matched the description of “Bridge Guy” except for Allen. He estimated Allen had about seven minutes with the girls before Weber drove down the access road and spooked him.


He told the court Allen slashed Libby’s throat first and then killed Abby.

“If that’s not enough to convince you, we have his confessions,” McLeland said.

He said he believes the evidence showed Allen was responsible for killing the girls, asked the jury to consider all the evidence and implored them to find him guilty.

McLeland wrapped up at 10:22 a.m.


I thought people were claiming the van info came from Wala. Yet here we read Harshman found that tidbit in one of his phone calls. So was the van detail even something that was in Wala's report or not?
 

"During a call on Nov. 14, 2022, Allen told his wife if the situation became “too much,” he’d talk to investigators and tell them what they wanted to know.

His wife, Kathy, replied, “You need to just hang in there.”

“I’m sorry, baby,” Allen responded. “It’s just one more thing I 🤬🤬🤬*** up for you.” He told her he loved her."

Sorry if this has been discussed, but I don't remember that part! That's almost sounding like a confession.
 
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