VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #214

[seestr8]

It’s a fitness app - it’s detecting elevation gain/stairs climbed. It’s not going to say “you walked down stairs and back up stairs, so that cancels out”, it’s going to count the stairs you walked up even though it might be a net 0. Similarly, they started out on the same level as the bridge. They went down the hill, then up 20 feet. The 20 feet gets logged.

JMO

Correct, but the metadata would still show a detection of a 60’ decline followed by a 40’ incline resulting in an elevation change of 20’. The maths still need to be math’ed in the back end of the fitness app. It wouldn’t just magically detect a 20’ elevation change. It would detect those changes over time. However, I am not a forensic scientist, this is just my understanding of how these apps work, as I’ve dealt with GPS tracking apps in my line of work, which admittedly may be different than fitness apps. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

For those who have no interest in seeing the photos of the girls’ bodies, this is an accurate representation of what they look like.

What I see is a stick placed across the necks of the girls in an attempt to cover up their wounds. Other sticks have been placed to hold each lone stick in place.

I like the “undoing” observation that one investigator made on the stand.

ETA: And no, those aren't antlers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1851675988905857445

 

[Salah11]

Not the defense's job to prove a defendant innocent as defendants are already presumed innocent by virtue of our judicial laws. It's a defense's job to best defend their client by ensuring that the facts presented are accurate, that the defendant is tried by the laws of trial and to present any contradictory evidence through expert witnesses, cross examination etc. but it is not their job to prove that the defendant is innocent.

Well, they failed so guilty all the way. Justice will only be served when he can no longer hurt another child.

Moo

 

[LookingForClues]

This is simply not true.

I’m referring to journalists who have credentials upon graduating from a reputable school of journalism. It is most definitely a profession.

There is absolutely a code of ethics. I can recall several journalists who were fired because they crafted fake stories or added in some bogus information to make their stories scintillating. One even was a Pulitzer Prize winner.

Mainstream media journalists also have gotten fired when they cross a line.

No one fires YouTubers because no one hired them. They are just ordinary people who can get on the internet.

https://www.politico.com/story/2012/07/10-journos-caught-fabricating-079221

Journalism ethics and standards - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thank you for saying this. I am a former journalist who no longer works in that profession because people want to get their news from Facebook, podcasts and YouTube. People don't read newspapers anymore, and they barely watch broadcast news.

We websleuthers follow various cases and lament the inability to find accurate details. I can't imagine how devastating it is for a victim's family and friends to see their loved ones treated like nothing more than a competition for the craziest conspiracies and clicks. Here, in this case, we are talking about two precious young girls. Do you have family members their age? I do! Granddaughters, three of them! How dare the murder of these young girls get lost in the jaded world of social media! It makes me so angry.

I think the local reporters have made every effort to be as accurate as possible. Overall, I think they've done a very good job. It's so hard to find accurate news even from those who try their darnedest because deadlines aren't the standard "news" deadlines set by print and broadcast news, but by social media. Instant news! There's little to no time to check for accuracy because they're up against non-journalists who don't give a darn about accuracy, respect for victims, etc.

We are lucky that Libby and Abby lived in an area where local journalists are invested in shining a light on what happened to them. I am hopeful that the jurors are driven by that same integrity.

This has been a difficult week on so many levels. I guess I sound like a crazy old lady. I just want justice. It's distressing when people twist the facts to make the perpetrator a victim.

 

[Arkay]

For those who have no interest in seeing the photos of the girls’ bodies, this is an accurate representation of what they look like.

What I see is a stick placed across the necks of the girls in an attempt to cover up their wounds. Other sticks have been placed to hold each lone stick in place.

I like the “undoing” observation that one investigator made on the stand.


View attachment 543902

https://twitter.com/x/status/1851675988905857445

Thanks, @MassGuy.

I’ve seen this sketch before, here on WS, but I have never seen the actual crime photos and I absolutely do not want to see them. As a mom and grandma I just couldn’t bear it if I saw it as it actually was.

Just me, I know others feel differently.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I wish we had a Poll for what we all think the verdict "might" be. @Tricia

I did enjoy seeing how the numbers changed throughout the weeks.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I will be amazed if it’s not a guilty verdict.

The Defense did a very poor showing. They didn’t get him off the bridge or give him an alibi elsewhere. Just seemed to imply he was crazy when he confessed so he can’t be guilty which is ridiculous.

IMO

Personally, I’m predicting a hung jury. I mean, just look at all us here.
Imagine us all in a room together! lololol

 

[getthefax]

We have 0 idea what evidence they have against other people, hopefully if Richard is acquitted they can bring the FBI back in and start with a fresh look at the case.

I believe, like the investigative team did until 2022, that there was more than one person involved. People talk and when they do the fbi will be there to listen.

JMO

We have a TON of evidence that they investigated tips and leads for five whole years before RA was arrested. Five years! If people were going to talk, why didn’t they talk before now? There is zero evidence that any other person was involved in this crime. They will not be reopening the case—not with the FBI, and not with anyone else. Period.

By the way, if you think it was too hard for one person not to leave fiber/DNA/fingerprint evidence, how easy do you think it would be for 2-3 or a whole group of people not to leave behind something?

It’s absurd. Absolutely absurd. SMDH.

MOO

 

[Melted]

Yes. Orthodontist horse cult. A ridiculous name for an absurd theory.

We have evidence right in front of us, and I don’t understand this need to ignore the obvious and indulge fantasy.

I believe the defense did lean way too heavily into the cult angle of that instead of just calling them what they are, a Neo Nazi prison gang that larps as odinists so they can have a religion and the prisons are forced to let them convene. JMO

 

[Melted]

We have a TON of evidence that they investigated tips and leads for five whole years before RA was arrested. Five years! If people were going to talk, why didn’t they talk before now? There is zero evidence that any other person was involved in this crime. They will not be reopening the case—not with the FBI, and not with anyone else. Period.

By the way, if you think it was too hard for one person not to leave fiber/DNA/fingerprint evidence, how easy do you think it would be for 2-3 or a whole group of people not to leave behind something?

It’s absurd. Absolutely absurd. SMDH.

MOO

People did talk, about 3 of them did.

JMO

 

[Pyrite]

I wonder how long Judge Gull will force them to keep deliberating if they can't settle on guilty or not guilty. Too bad there isn't a choice of "unproven" since it's the state's responsibility to prove. I guess that is the same as a hung jury but still "hung jury" has such a negative connotation.

The reality is most not guilty verdicts are more of an ‘unproven verdict’ than an ‘innocent didn’t do the crime’ verdict, in my opinion.

 

[Pyrite]

Does anyone think the jury will hang? Or will a verdict be reached?

I do think it will hang. I think there are people who can’t get around his confessions. There are other people that will see his 13 months in solitaire as slow motion torture and throw his confessions out. I don’t see BARD Without the confessions. All my opinion.

 

[Arkay]

We websleuthers follow various cases and lament the inability to find accurate details. I can't imagine how devastating it is for a victim's family and friends to see their loved ones treated like nothing more than a competition for the craziest conspiracies and clicks. Here, in this case, we are talking about two precious young girls. Do you have family members their age? I do! Granddaughters, three of them! How dare the murder of these young girls get lost in the jaded world of social media! It makes me so angry.

I so admire that you were a journalist!

I’ve been a grandma since I was 47, and I have three grandchildren. Two are girls, the oldest of whom is now 20 and the youngest is 10.

When I see Abby I see my daughter, who’s about to turn 43 but has a build like Abby. Her eldest daughter, the 20-year old, has a build like Libby from her father’s side of the family.

When I see these girls I have two lumps in my throat—-one of grief for Abby and Libby, and one of fear if anyone I love should fall prey to a similar fate.

My guess is that everyone here with offspring feels the same.

Even if a fellow WSer is not a parent, I would wager no one can think of these girls without overwhelming sorrow.

I believe that RA did it and I feel no empathy for him whatsoever.

JMO

 

[m00c0w]

Correct, but the metadata would still show a detection of a 60’ decline followed by a 40’ incline resulting in an elevation change of 20’. The maths still need to be math’ed in the back end of the fitness app. It wouldn’t just magically detect a 20’ elevation change. It would detect those changes over time. However, I am not a forensic scientist, this is just my understanding of how these apps work, as I’ve dealt with GPS tracking apps in my line of work, which admittedly may be different than fitness apps. MOO

The actual barometer makes these measurements, sure, but the actual data that’s logged into the health app is flights climbed. The only data that’s stored and available to extract are “flights climbed”. If they were actually recording some sort of fitness activity that was using GPS and specifically saving elevation changes, it would be available. But this seems to have been the regular, passive monitoring present all the time via the health app.

Screenshot attached is of the relevant section in my own health app.

JMO

 

[zvzvzvzv]

I disagree with your interpretation of the sticks. What stuck me most about the photo was the arrangement of the sticks, they all seem to have some meaning. The large branch over Libby's left arm is particularly bizarre. It is way more like ritualistic symbols than I imagined even after seeing the illustrations because of course there's some artistic license there. It is without a doubt not any attempt to cover the bodies but a deliberate pattern with some meaning to whoever did it.

 

[Inthedetails]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I thought the drawings you posted were super helpful in confirming the branches were NOT "runes."

The branches were placed as camouflage, not as ritual. imo

jmopinion

 

[MassGuy]

I disagree with your interpretation of the sticks. What stuck me most about the photo was the arrangement of the sticks, they all seem to have some meaning. The large branch over Libby's left arm is particularly bizarre. It is way more like ritualistic symbols than I imagined even after seeing the illustrations because of course there's some artistic license there. It is without a doubt not any attempt to cover the bodies but a deliberate pattern with some meaning to whoever did it.

If you see the actual photo I'll bet you have a different take. I see no meaning at all, other than trying to cover the wounds and perhaps a feeble effort to conceal the bodies.

And even if it did have some meaning other than that, what does it matter? Only he can know what need he was fulfilling.

 

[Inthedetails]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> I thought the drawings you posted were super helpful in confirming the branches were NOT "runes."

The branches were placed as camouflage, not as ritual. imo

jmopinion

To clarify, I edited my post to read NOT runes. I do not think the branches were runes, especially after seeing the drawings.

Thank you to the kind WS who alerted me to my dumb mistake.

jmo

 

[fred&edna]

What murderer carries their "special-secret-meaning" branches with them when they are out to kill? They appear too large (in the sketch) to be considered simply sticks - and at least one appears to be the approx height of the body... which would be about 5ft (at least).

ETA: If killer didn't bring the secret branches with them, did they really spend time selecting their secret-rune-branches. None of this is logical.

jmo

 

[Tortoise]

I disagree with your interpretation of the sticks. What stuck me most about the photo was the arrangement of the sticks, they all seem to have some meaning. The large branch over Libby's left arm is particularly bizarre. It is way more like ritualistic symbols than I imagined even after seeing the illustrations because of course there's some artistic license there. It is without a doubt not any attempt to cover the bodies but a deliberate pattern with some meaning to whoever did it.

I'm sure if we asked fifty people what they think the arrangement of the branches means there would be fifty different answers. The only reliable answer would be from the person who put the branches on the girls.

Allen confessed during a time when he was judged by the professionals treating him to be non-psychotic, that he "covered their bodies with branches"

I'm content that that was what he intended.

IMO

link

Delphi Murders trial: Day 11 live blog

Richard Allen, accused of murdering two teenage girls in Delphi, Indiana, is on trial and Day 11 of the trial began with testimony from several witnesses including Steve Mullin, John Galipeau, Ethan Drang, and Michael Clemons.

wishtv.com