VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #214

[Boxer]

For those who have no interest in seeing the photos of the girls’ bodies, this is an accurate representation of what they look like.

What I see is a stick placed across the necks of the girls in an attempt to cover up their wounds. Other sticks have been placed to hold each lone stick in place.

I like the “undoing” observation that one investigator made on the stand.

ETA: And no, those aren't antlers.


View attachment 543902

https://twitter.com/x/status/1851675988905857445

Looks like starting to build up a bonfire got interrupted to me.

 

[KSwizzle]

I just don't think they proved it beyond a reasonable doubt, place your anger at LE who did shoddy investigating, lost leads, dismissed the FBI, had volunteers in positions that handled sensitive information and should have been actual LE, failed to test items for DNA even if they believed it wasn't relevant. They believe he was scared by a white van but then he still apparently while scared still murdered them, changed clothes (at some point never explained?), and tried to cover them up. And then on top of that the poor treatment, even if he is the killer which he obviously could be, we need to have a higher standard than what was given.

I don't know what else to say outside of small town LE with big egos and a high profile case, MOO

 

[Boxer]

Also MOO a box cutter is most likely a weapon of opportunity, like a golf club, something available as things move to murder.

 

[CS2C]

Does anyone have a link to where the items of clothing were found by any chance? I’m sure I remember a number of items being recovered from the south side of the creek.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Vaderman]

Also MOO a box cutter is most likely a weapon of opportunity, like a golf club, something available as things move to murder.

I was confused and thought you said it was a "golf club box cutter", so I did a search and found the following, a "golf grip cutter:


Link
Are you thinking this was the weapon?

 

[oviedo]

Also MOO a box cutter is most likely a weapon of opportunity, like a golf club, something available as things move to murder.

Yes something he might have in his back pocket ?
FWIW I believe he is 100% guilty
JMO

 

[joe jones]

I disagree with your interpretation of the sticks. What stuck me most about the photo was the arrangement of the sticks, they all seem to have some meaning. The large branch over Libby's left arm is particularly bizarre. It is way more like ritualistic symbols than I imagined even after seeing the illustrations because of course there's some artistic license there. It is without a doubt not any attempt to cover the bodies but a deliberate pattern with some meaning to whoever did it.

I'm not sure I would agree that they are ritualistic per se but they were placed very specifically for reasons only the killer/s know, there was absolutely no reason to collect sticks to put on bodies, it certainly wasn't done to conceal IMO but it means something to killer/s,
there are so many things in this crime that hold very significant factors beyond killing the girls, the different treatment of girls, the redressing, the vertical cuts to LG neck which are extremely unusual,
And I will always be firmly of the belief that one person could never have achieved all that was achieved within any one of the states timelines, IMO even at gunpoint neither AW or LG was totally compliant and didn't obey all directions immediately, even at gunpoint getting two teenagers to get naked in broad daylight in front of one or more people and each other would have taken many threats and a lot of aggression, all this takes time,
And IMO this trial has revealed to me that the investigation and investigators who were the leads were incompetent and left many things not properly investigated, the hair never tested, the amount of cars similar to RA car never investigated till trial, the height of BG never investigated from video, googling things in breaks during trial and presenting it as evidence the list goes on.
I hope that if RA is acquitted or a hung jury that the whole case file gets given to the FBI or another agency and it gets investigated properly

 

[Tortoise]

I'm not sure I would agree that they are ritualistic per se but they were placed very specifically for reasons only the killer/s know, there was absolutely no reason to collect sticks to put on bodies, it certainly wasn't done to conceal IMO but it means something to killer/s,
there are so many things in this crime that hold very significant factors beyond killing the girls, the different treatment of girls, the redressing, the vertical cuts to LG neck which are extremely unusual,
And I will always be firmly of the belief that one person could never have achieved all that was achieved within any one of the states timelines, IMO even at gunpoint neither AW or LG was totally compliant and didn't obey all directions immediately, even at gunpoint getting two teenagers to get naked in broad daylight in front of one or more people and each other would have taken many threats and a lot of aggression, all this takes time,
And IMO this trial has revealed to me that the investigation and investigators who were the leads were incompetent and left many things not properly investigated, the hair never tested, the amount of cars similar to RA car never investigated till trial, the height of BG never investigated from video, googling things in breaks during trial and presenting it as evidence the list goes on.
I hope that if RA is acquitted or a hung jury that the whole case file gets given to the FBI or another agency and it gets investigated properly

Could the defense not have investigated BG's height? Instead of all the work they put into people who were not suspects? That could have been a really fast and very effective defense. IMO

 

[MassGuy]

I'm not sure I would agree that they are ritualistic per se but they were placed very specifically for reasons only the killer/s know, there was absolutely no reason to collect sticks to put on bodies, it certainly wasn't done to conceal IMO but it means something to killer/s,
there are so many things in this crime that hold very significant factors beyond killing the girls, the different treatment of girls, the redressing, the vertical cuts to LG neck which are extremely unusual,
And I will always be firmly of the belief that one person could never have achieved all that was achieved within any one of the states timelines, IMO even at gunpoint neither AW or LG was totally compliant and didn't obey all directions immediately, even at gunpoint getting two teenagers to get naked in broad daylight in front of one or more people and each other would have taken many threats and a lot of aggression, all this takes time,
And IMO this trial has revealed to me that the investigation and investigators who were the leads were incompetent and left many things not properly investigated, the hair never tested, the amount of cars similar to RA car never investigated till trial, the height of BG never investigated from video, googling things in breaks during trial and presenting it as evidence the list goes on.
I hope that if RA is acquitted or a hung jury that the whole case file gets given to the FBI or another agency and it gets investigated properly

Imagine that he does get acquitted and they somehow manage to file charges against someone else (we’ve seen their hand so we’ll ignore how spectacularly unlikely that is).

All the defense would have to do is point to Richard Allen and it would be game over.

We know he was there. We know he was dressed like BG. We know he owned a matching .40 caliber gun. We know he admitted to it. We know he claimed to have been using his phone when he wasn’t. We know he has no alibi for that day (he said he was there after all). Etc. etc.

There’s no path there. Richard Allen blocks it forever.

 

[lonetraveler]

I think the news was that reporters and the public will not be notified when they take breaks lunch or bathroom breaks or if they have questions or notes.

Not that none of those things have happened, just that we won't be informed about them was my understanding.

I must say, this judge is really something.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Looks like starting to build up a bonfire got interrupted to me.

It looks that way to me too. Except that large one. Which unfortunately makes me think he used it for some reason to hold down his victim. I hate even typing that. Those girls went through absolute hell.
Jmo

 

[oviedo]

Imagine that he does get acquitted and they somehow manage to file charges against someone else (we’ve seen their hand so we’ll ignore how spectacularly unlikely that is).

All the defense would have to do is point to Richard Allen and it would be game over.

We know he was there. We know he was dressed like BG. We know he owned a matching .40 caliber gun. We know he admitted to it. We know he claimed to have been using his phone when he wasn’t. We know he has no alibi for that day (he said he was there after all). Etc. etc.

There’s no path there. Richard Allen blocks it forever.

And we know a van startled him and stopped the impending rape ….
“It doesn’t matter it’s over “

Delphi Murder Trial Day 6: 'It doesn't matter. It's over.'

Many witnesses took the stand on day 6. Most have been a part of the investigation since 2017.

www.starcitytv.com

Jmo

 

[RexLuther]

What murderer carries their "special-secret-meaning" branches with them when they are out to kill? They appear too large (in the sketch) to be considered simply sticks - and at least one appears to be the approx height of the body... which would be about 5ft (at least).

ETA: If killer didn't bring the secret branches with them, did they really spend time selecting their secret-rune-branches. None of this is logical.

jmo

The raised and balanced branches off the ground resembling a tent frame made me question the meaning behind the scene.
jmo

 

[Snoop Sister]

It looks that way to me too. Except that large one. Which unfortunately makes me think he used it for some reason to hold down his victim. I hate even typing that. Those girls went through absolute hell.
Jmo

I was thinking the same that possibly the large one was to hold Libby down

 

[CCJD]

I wish we had a Poll for what we all think the verdict "might" be. @Tricia

I haven't checked to see if anyone else answered, but there is one:Will RA be found Guilty in the Delphi Murders?

 

[joe jones]

Could the defense not have investigated BG's height? Instead of all the work they put into people who were not suspects? That could have been a really fast and very effective defense. IMO

There was no defence when the investigation knew there was technology that may have assisted them in finding out if they could get an idea of how tall BG was for the 5 years they were attempting to find him, RA may have already been ruled out by reason of his short stature if they had investigated BG properly

 

[Salah11]

I haven't checked to see if anyone else answered, but there is one:Will RA be found Guilty in the Delphi Murders?

Guilty way out in front which I love to see. Fingers crossed the majority have all got it right on where the wind is blowing.

I would hate the families of Libby and Abby to be let down by the system again.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I haven't checked to see if anyone else answered, but there is one:Will RA be found Guilty in the Delphi Murders?

Oh, I must have missed it. Thanks. Was it a poll as to what WE think, or how we think a jury will return their verdict? Hopefully I am making sense.

 

[getthefax]

Oh, I must have missed it. Thanks. Was it a poll as to what WE think, or how we think a jury will return their verdict? Hopefully I am making sense.

You can click the link and then vote about how you think the jury will vote.

 

[Arkay]

Some have said that if a not guilty verdict is delivered, that RA cannot be tried again on the same charges. Is this true even if new evidence is found? For example, what if some of the DNA that was recovered but not able to be tested at this time due to not having the technology "yet", later is tested and is found to be RA's DNA? What if RA's 2017 phone data is somehow recovered or discovered?

Should Richard Allen be found not guilty on all the charges, he can stand on the courthouse steps afterwards and declare “I did do it, ha ha,”and yet he cannot be tried again for the SAME CHARGES.

This is due to the Constitutional clause of Double Jeopardy.

IANAL, so I’m open to correction, but I believe that if there exists some OTHER charge regarding this case that he is not currently charged with, he can be charged on that. Let’s pretend it’s something like theft of their clothing, or something else of that ilk that is true, but I doubt was bothered with in light of the kidnapping and murders.

I THINK I have that correctly, but will say JMO in case I misinterpreted.

Double Jeopardy Clause - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

ETA: just checked with my boyfriend, who is a lawyer and teaches Constitutional Law (and with whom I should have checked first, of course).

He says the above is accurate, but explained something else could happen DURING the trial and is called “Jeopardy attaches.” Something to do with the prosecution bringing in something that the judge already forbade.