VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #214

[TTF14]

After following this case since the afternoon the girls were missing, I went into this trial pretty solidly on the fence, but leaning ever-so-slightly to RA being not guilty. I was hoping what we learned from trial reporting would help me feel 100% solid either way. But, it didn't. I really expected some kind of evidence to convince me he was involved in some way. But it wasn't there.

If I had to vote right now, if I were on the jury, it would be not guilty. The State simply didn't prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Nothing proved to me that "BG" is RA. So, after that, according to the State's narrative of how things happened, nothing else matters.

But then, even more so, is the evidence of the headphones connecting (and then, more importantly, disconnecting) from Libby's phone.....this crime didn't happen as the State is narrating, in my opinion. And, there were more people involved, in my opinion.

Whatever the jury decides, I will 100% support them. They've had a tough case. A really tough job! I'm mostly just worried about what happens next. Will we ever have justice for Abby and Libby?

As always, JMO.

 

[sunspun]

After following this case since the afternoon the girls were missing, I went into this trial pretty solidly on the fence, but leaning ever-so-slightly to RA being not guilty. I was hoping what we learned from trial reporting would help me feel 100% solid either way. But, it didn't. I really expected some kind of evidence to convince me he was involved in some way. But it wasn't there.

If I had to vote right now, if I were on the jury, it would be not guilty. The State simply didn't prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Nothing proved to me that "BG" is RA. So, after that, according to the State's narrative of how things happened, nothing else matters.

But then, even more so, is the evidence of the headphones connecting (and then, more importantly, disconnecting) from Libby's phone.....this crime didn't happen as the State is narrating, in my opinion. And, there were more people involved, in my opinion.

Whatever the jury decides, I will 100% support them. They've had a tough case. A really tough job! I'm mostly just worried about what happens next. Will we ever have justice for Abby and Libby?

As always, JMO.

not if you're seriously looking for a person who killed the girls, then returned hours later to plug headphones into the phone found under her dead body, all while a search for the girls was very active in this very same area, no.

 

[TTF14]

not if you're seriously looking for a person who killed the girls, then returned hours later to plug headphones into the phone found under her dead body, all while a search for the girls was very active in this very same area, no.

I agree, that particular scenario doesn't make sense. In my opinion, the State hasn't proved it happened that way, by one man.

As always, JMO.

 

[getthefax]

not if you're seriously looking for a person who killed the girls, then returned hours later to plug headphones into the phone found under her dead body, all while a search for the girls was very active in this very same area, no.

EBM for typos

I think the phone jack thing is a little weird too, but none of the data shows that any audio was actually played on the phone. No music, not a phone call, nothing. Have you considered that Libby’s phone may instead have had a (fairly common) glitch? I’m wondering if you think that’s a possibility.

We know she actually did a factory reset of her phone a few days prior to the murder, according to her grandmother, because her (iPhone 6) kept “glitching.” She was trying to fix a problem that the phone had.

A quick Google search of iPhone 6 headphone jack issue turned up scores of pages where people discuss this problem. They also say the cause can be debris in the jack port (and we know the phone was wet/dirty…)

Anyway, this info puzzled me too, but this is one potential explanation for the headphone jack issue in the phone data.
Perhaps more plausible than that a killer wanted to plug headphones into Libby’s phone…? Again, no phone log data shows that the phone was used for audio in any way, so why would someone plug in headphones?

Just my thoughts on this particular piece of info.

MOO

 

[Kpossible44]

That last line is precisely why the notion that RA was "railroaded," is complete garbage.

They would have loved to have been able to make a connection between KK and BG, or even RL for that matter. They wasted years chasing down tips and potential suspects and weren't able to get anywhere because of the simple fact that there just wasn't anything there. You have to be able to put those people at the crime scene.

How they got to Allen was completely organic. They saw that statement saying he was there, followed up with him, developed probable cause, served a search warrant, and ultimately had enough to arrest him.

MassGuy, I want to thank you for all of the logic and intelligence you put into your posts. I don’t comment much, but I have followed this case every step of the way from February 13, 2017 until now. Your posts often represent my thoughts to a tee. I am praying for justice for the girls, their families and their entire community.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Not surprised of the no verdict today, even though I had hoped for Felony Friday.

Shows me that this jury is taking its time and going through the testimony and evidence carefully. I initially said Guilty by Saturday and I think I'm going to stick with that.

Wonder what the initial vote was, wonder what it was at the end of today? There could be a couple of hold outs. <modsnip>

I believe there will ultimately be a verdict reached, not a hung jury. RA is going back to Prison as a Convicted Child Murderer IMO or he'll walk out being found NG, but RA=BG=Killer never be innocent in my book.

MOO

 

[otto]

Should Richard Allen be found not guilty on all the charges, he can stand on the courthouse steps afterwards and declare “I did do it, ha ha,”and yet he cannot be tried again for the SAME CHARGES.

This is due to the Constitutional clause of Double Jeopardy.

IANAL, so I’m open to correction, but I believe that if there exists some OTHER charge regarding this case that he is not currently charged with, he can be charged on that.

Years ago, officials determined that there is no connection between Lizzy & Lyric in Evansdale, and Abby & Libby in Delphi. No information was released, presumably to protect the rights of the accused: Richard Allen. Regardless of whether he is convicted, Evansdale should release some information to illustrates that the two double murders of children who look alike were not committed by the same man. Can he be ruled out?

I'm curious, looking forward to some explanation of why RA was ruled out in Evansdale.

 

[photographer4]

Years ago, officials determined that there is no connection between Lizzy & Lyric in Evansdale, and Abby & Libby in Delphi. No information was released, presumably to protect the rights of the accused: Richard Allen. Regardless of whether he is convicted, Evansdale should release some information to illustrates that the two double murders of children who look alike were not committed by the same man. Can he be ruled out?

I'm curious, looking forward to some explanation of why RA was ruled out in Evansdale.

I assumed they obtained work records for RA and ruled him out due to that, is that not what happened there?

 

[MassGuy]

Years ago, officials determined that there is no connection between Lizzy & Lyric in Evansdale, and Abby & Libby in Delphi. No information was released, presumably to protect the rights of the accused: Richard Allen. Regardless of whether he is convicted, Evansdale should release some information to illustrates that the two double murders of children who look alike were not committed by the same man. Can he be ruled out?

I'm curious, looking forward to some explanation of why RA was ruled out in Evansdale.

I watched that Evansdale doc on Max a couple months ago (it's really good). Investigators in that one shared information with investigators in Delphi, looking to see if there was any connection; apparently nothing came of that. That guy had to have been familiar with the area in which the abduction occurred, and the area where the bodies were dumped (many miles apart). We don't know how they were killed (bodies would have been bones), but the MO's are different.

Likewise, Allen was familiar with this particular area, and law enforcement knew that from the beginning (it was a logical conclusion). I think we're talking about two different killers who were familiar with their respective hunting grounds.

 

[SandyQLS]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed (no links for any of the statements in the post>


I also have a hard time accepting that the Anthony_Schotts (sp?) catfishing account linked to KK has nothing to do with these murders. No coincidences.

Last night I dug up the original still photo of BG and Voila! there is the Sig Sauer under his jacket. I remember looking at that 7 years ago and only seeing fabric folds. Also those baggy ankles on the jeans are a short people problem... BG is RA.

So I made it over the BARD hurdle that RA is Guilty but I think he had a partner or more, men he fears, lying in wait. His role was to bring the girls at gunpoint. KK did the catfishing, established the meetup at the bridge; maybe sold the info. I do not believe RA acted spontaneously but in some plot.

If the jury finds Guilty, IMOO the case will probably be tossed on appeal due to any of multiple appeal avenues (flaws in case, rulings, etc.) I hate seeing someone's rights violated like this, I don't want to live in a Gestapo police state, but I think RA is Guilty.

 

[minor4th]

It is a very weird crime scene. The sticks and branches do seem to be purposely placed, and not as concealment. One girl unclothed and the other with two sets of clothing. And blood on Libby running up her face instead of down her torso. Moving at least one of the bodies 20 feet, but no drag marks.

It makes no sense, but that does not seem to be the scene of someone who hastily murdered these girls after being spooked by a van on the other side of the creek. IMO whoever did this took them right to that spot and spent some time there. It also seems more consistent with more than one bad guy.

 

[cherrybier]

It is a very weird crime scene. The sticks and branches do seem to be purposely placed, and not as concealment. One girl unclothed and the other with two sets of clothing. And blood on Libby running up her face instead of down her torso. Moving at least one of the bodies 20 feet, but no drag marks.

It makes no sense, but that does not seem to be the scene of someone who hastily murdered these girls after being spooked by a van on the other side of the creek. IMO whoever did this took them right to that spot and spent some time there. It also seems more consistent with more than one bad guy.

Agree. I wish the D had really driven this home in their closing. What was somebody who was supposedly spooked, bothering with undressing and re-dressing, placing bodies in certain positions and laying sticks in odd formations.

Crime scene is very odd to me. Moo.

 

[photographer4]

It is a very weird crime scene. The sticks and branches do seem to be purposely placed, and not as concealment. One girl unclothed and the other with two sets of clothing. And blood on Libby running up her face instead of down her torso. Moving at least one of the bodies 20 feet, but no drag marks.

It makes no sense, but that does not seem to be the scene of someone who hastily murdered these girls after being spooked by a van on the other side of the creek. IMO whoever did this took them right to that spot and spent some time there. It also seems more consistent with more than one bad guy.

Sounds awful! I wonder if forensics could work out - could LG have been carried over a shoulder and that caused the wrong way flow? Again I haven’t seen and don’t want to see the photos. So just a thought. The description makes me think LE really missed something or maybe a lotta things at the scene given what the State presented at trial. Seems so many things unaccounted for imo.

 

[SouthEnd]

It is a very weird crime scene. The sticks and branches do seem to be purposely placed, and not as concealment. One girl unclothed and the other with two sets of clothing. And blood on Libby running up her face instead of down her torso. Moving at least one of the bodies 20 feet, but no drag marks.

It makes no sense, but that does not seem to be the scene of someone who hastily murdered these girls after being spooked by a van on the other side of the creek. IMO whoever did this took them right to that spot and spent some time there. It also seems more consistent with more than one bad guy.

I think we interpret the 'spooked' part differently. It makes sense, if it is a perp that is focussed on the moment, instead of the long term.

My visualisation is that a man who had psyched himself up to live out his fantasy, a man who was highly strung and had low self-confidence, heard a van. The fantasy broke. Real world broke through. He was no longer a powerful creature controlling Abby and Libby. He was a person about to face consequences.

That's the spooked moment. He decides to lead them away, and then he decides to prioritise his own life by taking theirs.

There was no van following him around. Most likely, no more cars passed through that service road for the next 30 mins, one hour. Meaning the only threat he had left in his sick mind was those two girls. I believe the killing happened almost immediately when they reached that dip in the landscape, and then he spent a very long time freaking out, coming out with dozens of scenarios and not actualising any of them, before he eventually decided to just... run. And go on and live his life. (All but with the occasional flash of 'oh they are coming for me. Oh, I did do it. Oh, I should die.')

As a person with extreme anxiety, it makes perfect sense to me, and I hate it.

All MOO

 

[SandyQLS]

It is a very weird crime scene. The sticks and branches do seem to be purposely placed, and not as concealment. One girl unclothed and the other with two sets of clothing. And blood on Libby running up her face instead of down her torso. Moving at least one of the bodies 20 feet, but no drag marks.

It makes no sense, but that does not seem to be the scene of someone who hastily murdered these girls after being spooked by a van on the other side of the creek. IMO whoever did this took them right to that spot and spent some time there. It also seems more consistent with more than one bad guy.

I had the same thought about too many actions occurring after being allegedly spooked.

 

[SandyQLS]

Sounds awful! I wonder if forensics could work out - could LG have been carried over a shoulder and that caused the wrong way flow? Again I haven’t seen and don’t want to see the photos. So just a thought. The description makes me think LE really missed something or maybe a lotta things at the scene given what the State presented at trial. Seems so many things unaccounted for imo.

laid out on her back over a downed tree trunk serving as an altar of sorts?
Could RA carry LG over his shoulder? maybe 20 feet

 

[mrjitty]

Thank you for saying this. I am a former journalist who no longer works in that profession because people want to get their news from Facebook, podcasts and YouTube. People don't read newspapers anymore, and they barely watch broadcast news.

We websleuthers follow various cases and lament the inability to find accurate details. I can't imagine how devastating it is for a victim's family and friends to see their loved ones treated like nothing more than a competition for the craziest conspiracies and clicks. Here, in this case, we are talking about two precious young girls. Do you have family members their age? I do! Granddaughters, three of them! How dare the murder of these young girls get lost in the jaded world of social media! It makes me so angry.

I think the local reporters have made every effort to be as accurate as possible. Overall, I think they've done a very good job. It's so hard to find accurate news even from those who try their darnedest because deadlines aren't the standard "news" deadlines set by print and broadcast news, but by social media. Instant news! There's little to no time to check for accuracy because they're up against non-journalists who don't give a darn about accuracy, respect for victims, etc.

We are lucky that Libby and Abby lived in an area where local journalists are invested in shining a light on what happened to them. I am hopeful that the jurors are driven by that same integrity.

This has been a difficult week on so many levels. I guess I sound like a crazy old lady. I just want justice. It's distressing when people twist the facts to make the perpetrator a victim.

Thank you so much for posting this.

 

[otto]

I assumed they obtained work records for RA and ruled him out due to that, is that not what happened there?

I'm curious to see those work records.

Seems unusual for a man in his forties to start committing sex crimes by murdering two teenage girls on a sunny afternoon in February?

 

[photographer4]

laid out on her back over a downed tree trunk serving as an altar of sorts?
Could RA carry LG over his shoulder? maybe 20 feet

I have no idea. I don’t even want to try to imagine what the killers reasoning may have been in how he left the girls at the scene.

As for RA, I doubt he could have carried Lg at all really. But anything is possible. Moo.

 

[mrjitty]

What murderer carries their "special-secret-meaning" branches with them when they are out to kill? They appear too large (in the sketch) to be considered simply sticks - and at least one appears to be the approx height of the body... which would be about 5ft (at least).

ETA: If killer didn't bring the secret branches with them, did they really spend time selecting their secret-rune-branches. None of this is logical.

jmo

+1

Note also that the defence did not bring a credible expert to the 3 day hearing to establish this either. It was another hoax. that is why the misrepresented what FBI BAU and Prof Turco said.

why did they need to lie so much if they had these as real theories based on evidence?