GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #215

[snooptroop88]

Thank you for this. The fact the jury asked to review this interview has me thinking they are being very serious about the facts. Has me feeling more towards a guilty verdict now. They want to be certain before entering a guilty plea. That interview would be powerful to me.

I can only hope.

Agreed 100% that the jury focusing on Holeman and that interview is a very bad sign for RA. What does that interview show the jurors?

It shows RA chuckling (per one source) at the idea of him being the "mastermind" behind the murders. The case involves dead children, not a good look for RA. RA says he doesn't care if he lives or dies. “Kill me,” Allen said. “Make my wife f****** rich.” Again, there are deceased children at the center of this case. This is not a good look for Richard Allen. The keepsake bullet is mentioned, RA has no response. And just noticing this: RA "maintained that the cartridge couldn’t have come from his gun and said he carried the firearm only when he went fishing or mushroom hunting." I'm not quite understanding why RA would feel a need for a gun when picking mushrooms or fishing, yet RA sees no need for a gun when he is out for a walk in the same type of environment where you'd fish or pick mushrooms. Does he shoot the mushrooms and fish? If not, I don't really see why this differentiation's been made. Are there people on the trails that he fears are going to rob him of his mushrooms and fish, I doubt it?? And then,

“Did you see those two dead girls?”
“Arrest me,” Allen said.

Whenever the subject of these two murdered children comes up, RA's responds by immediately changing the subject back to himself and his predicament or engaging in other efforts to get out of Dodge. Or as we see in this case, by playing the tough guy and attempting to force LE's hand. Some might think under his circumstances, this is normal behavior. I disagree, I don't think such responses are normal under any circumstances. I think RA is understandably extremely uncomfortable discussing these victims at all in this environment-- because he himself killed them.

And finally,

“What kind of good person kills two people?” Allen asks.

I really think the jury is going to be arriving at the conclusion fairly soon that no good person does. The focus for these jurors, jmo, is who killed Abby and Libby and whether RA is BG. They're not there to try LE and the penal system of Indiana, and I think they know that.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/the-damage-is-done-jurors-watch-richard-allens-interview-with-isp-investigator/

Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog

Day 10 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins at 9 a.m. Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest developments.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Warwick7]

Agreed 100% that the jury focusing on Holeman and that interview is a very bad sign for RA. What does that interview show the jurors?

It shows RA chuckling (per one source) at the idea of him being the "mastermind" behind the murders. The case involves dead children, not a good look for RA. RA says he doesn't care if he lives or dies. “Kill me,” Allen said. “Make my wife *advertiser censored***** rich.” Again, there are deceased children at the center of this case. This is not a good look for Richard Allen. The keepsake bullet is mentioned, RA has no response. And just noticing this: RA "maintained that the cartridge couldn’t have come from his gun and said he carried the firearm only when he went fishing or mushroom hunting." I'm not quite understanding why RA would feel a need for a gun when picking mushrooms or fishing, yet RA sees no need for a gun when he is out for a walk in the same type of environment where you'd fish or pick mushrooms. Does he shoot the mushrooms and fish? If not, I don't really see why this differentiation's been made. Are there people on the trails that he fears are going to rob him of his mushrooms and fish, I doubt it?? And then,

“Did you see those two dead girls?”
“Arrest me,” Allen said.

Whenever the subject of these two murdered children comes up, RA's responds by immediately changing the subject back to himself and his predicament or engaging in other efforts to get out of Dodge. Or as we see in this case, by playing the tough guy and attempting to force LE's hand. Some might think under his circumstances, this is normal behavior. I disagree, I don't think such responses are normal under any circumstances. I think RA is understandably extremely uncomfortable discussing these victims at all in this environment-- because he himself killed them.

And finally,

“What kind of good person kills two people?” Allen asks.

I really think the jury is going to be arriving at the conclusion fairly soon that no good person does. The focus for these jurors, jmo, is who killed Abby and Libby and whether RA is BG. They're not there to try LE and the penal system of Indiana, and I think they know that.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/the-damage-is-done-jurors-watch-richard-allens-interview-with-isp-investigator/

Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog

Day 10 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins at 9 a.m. Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest developments.

www.wishtv.com

Exactly!

 

[Tricia]

What do you think the jury will do in the Delphi case?
Take our Websleuths poll RIGHT HERE

 

[al66pine]

Jurors. Exhibits in Deliberations?

Do you know if the jury can take exhibits with them back to the jury room?

@minor4th
Not the OP, but (d) from Rule 23* from PrelimInstrx suggests to me that the jurors MAY take exhibits (or copies/reproductions) w them into the delib. room. IDK, ICBWrong.
Welcoming clarification or correction.

Noting that the language is permissive not mandatory re content of what judge MAY authorize re juror trial books.
imo
____________________________________
* "RULE 23. JUROR TRIAL BOOKS"
"In both criminal and civil cases, the court may authorize the use of juror trial books to aid jurors in performing their duties.
Juror trial books may contain:
(a) all given instructions;
(b) information regarding the anticipated trial schedule;
(c) witness lists; and
(d) copies of exhibits admitted for trial."

Redirecting...

in.gov/courts/rules/jury

 

[Tortoise]

Just a reminder of what the judge said when the jury went out - it answers the question as to why RA was brought to the court yesterday

At 1:24 p.m. the jury leaves with instructions.

Judge Gull now lays out expectations for those outside the deliberation room. She says the attorneys need to be within 5 minutes of the court room. She says if the jury needs to see evidence, all attorneys will be invited.

Gull says that Allen will be brought in if the jury requests.

She says the jury will pick a foreperson. She says the jury will not deliberate on Sundays.

She says the jury will deliberate from nine a.m. to four p.m. daily, unless at 4 p.m. they choose to stay and deliberate longer. She says the jury will not deliberate on Sundays.

Court is off the record at 1:27 p.m. on November 7, 2024.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 18 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with closing arguments from both prosecution and defense. Jury will decide the fate of suspect Richard Allen.

wishtv.com

 

[MassGuy]

It really is no surprise that jurors have not yet reached a verdict based on the sheer amount of testimony & evidence they have to review. That said, talking with county & state officials today, they’re starting to mention the dreaded H-word & it absolutely terrifies them.

Hung Jury. I’m not suggesting that’s going to be the result of this trial, but 3 local & state employees at the courthouse warily mentioned the possibility to me today as jurors left the courthouse after a 3rd day of delib. “I don’t see how we could do this again,” one said.

Those same officials all told me they believe Monday will be THE day for a Delphi verdict. In all fairness, two of the three thought a verdict would come either Friday or today so….

I’m not making predictions at this point. It’s in the jury’s hands. No point in guessing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1855452898483654962

 

[Tortoise]

That makes me think they may be going for hung jury. The people who saw the BG video have reported BG was nowhere near the kids. The interrogation by Holeman would make me acquit when coupled with how they tossed him into Westville and knowing what they did to him there. Mooo.

BBM

Lawyer Lee, timestamp 35.48

"there's apparently Abby, and then a man comes up behind her, and Abby comes toward Libby"

 

[sunshineray]

Snipped and carried over by me from the last thread, for focus of reply

@AugustWest
I understand the right of someone to confront their accusor(s) in court. The jury though is not RA's accusor(s). They're the individuals deciding his fate, passing judgement. I see no interpretation with them as accusers of RA therefore he shouldn't insert himself, nor should the Prosecution, in the jury's viewing of any admitted evidence they might need to review to come to judgement. Nobody/nothing gets to influence the jury in person after the case is handed to them. During trial lawyers, judge, defendant and the public can all influence just by facial expressions, attitude, body language, sounds, words, and they did just that while viewing evidence during trial. That possible influence should never be present after their deliberations start, JMO. They're suppose to be sequestered from any influences besides the evidence during deliberations.

@al66pine
"During the trial, you must not consume any alcohol or drugs which would affect your ability to hear the evidence fairly and impartially."*

No alcohol or drug consumption to affect the jury's impartiality but they must be compelled to see the defendant/his lawyers and the prosecutors and all the possible influence of their human sway while reviewing evidence during their deliberations? Just seems counterproductive to their objective discernment in seclusion after the case is handed to them for judgement. JMO

I understand it's all been litigated and interpreted into case law over the years, just seems beyond the rights of the defendant or prosecutors to even be in the presence of the jury until verdict or the reporting of the inability of them to reach one. AJMO as a layperson.

 

[Tortoise]

I think part of this could be to do with his weight loss since 2022, and the jury wanting to compare BG with RA in his pre-prison days, since no photos of RA were admitted.

2022 isn't 2017 but it might be the best they got. IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

This trial has had a huge price tag for a small, rural county. I fear they won’t have the budget for another try.

I feel confident that in some bizarre happenstance there is a hung jury, they will definitely retry RA. Even with the large $$$ already spent. They will not allow the accused double homicide child murderer just go free.

This jury is too invested as well IMO. They've been sequestered and they've given almost a month of their lives already, I believe they will see this through to the end with a verdict - GUILTY.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

Just MOO

 

[Tortoise]

Snipped and carried over by me from the last thread, for focus of reply

@AugustWest
I understand the right of someone to confront their accusor(s) in court. The jury though is not RA's accusor(s). They're the individuals deciding his fate, passing judgement. I see no interpretation with them as accusers of RA therefore he shouldn't insert himself, nor should the Prosecution, in the jury's viewing of any admitted evidence they might need to review to come to judgement. Nobody/nothing gets to influence the jury in person after the case is handed to them. During trial lawyers, judge, defendant and the public can all influence just by facial expressions, attitude, body language, sounds, words, and they did just that while viewing evidence during trial. That possible influence should never be present after their deliberations start, JMO. They're suppose to be sequestered from any influences besides the evidence during deliberations.

@al66pine
"During the trial, you must not consume any alcohol or drugs which would affect your ability to hear the evidence fairly and impartially."*

No alcohol or drug consumption to affect the jury's impartiality but they must be compelled to see the defendant/his lawyers and the prosecutors and all the possible influence of their human sway while reviewing evidence during their deliberations? Just seems counterproductive to their objective discernment in seclusion after the case is handed to them for judgement. JMO

I understand it's all been litigated and interpreted into case law over the years, just seems beyond the rights of the defendant or prosecutors to even be in the presence of the jury until verdict or the reporting of the inability of them to reach one. AJMO as a layperson.

I think it has to do with the jury requesting Allen be brought in yesterday. See my post just above with the judge's instructions.

 

[sunshineray]

I think part of this could be to do with his weight loss since 2022, and the jury wanting to compare BG with RA in his pre-prison days, since no photos of RA were admitted.

2022 isn't 2017 but it might be the best they got. IMO

Didn't the P enter 4 photos into evidence while RA's daughter was on the stand, had her identify that was representative of how her father looked in 2017?

 

[mrjitty]

BBM

Lawyer Lee, timestamp 35.48

"there's apparently Abby, and then a man comes up behind her, and Abby comes toward Libby"

so strange that the defence mounted a bridge guy innocence project

it’s almost as if they accept their client must be bridge guy.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

This trial is not about the families needing to blame someone.
Only the State has the power to prosecute and convict for murder.
It’s not Families v. Richard Allen
It is Indiana v. Richard Allen

^THIS 100%^ These families aren't looking to blame someone, they are looking for Truth and Justice for the brutal murder of their innocent children, Abby & Libby, which is a position no parent would want to be in. Would you or anyone who has children not want the same?

They deserve answers and someone held accountable for the heinous acts committed upon their girls that have left them forever 13 and 14, never to have lived their lives as was their right, due to no action of their own, but by the choice of a sick, evil little man.

The jury is the trier of these facts, the State of Indiana is the one bringing RA to answer for those crimes. Even with a verdict, this family will continue to suffer the pain and loss until their last days. My heart breaks for them.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Didn't the P enter 4 photos into evidence while RA's daughter was on the stand, had her identify that was representative of how her father looked in 2017?

Did they? Maybe I didn't see that report. Here's what I read

"Luttrell asks Zapanta if Allen changed his appearance after she left for Ball State. She says no.

He asks her another question about Allen’s height and weight. Auger objects. He shows Zapanta photos of Allen. Auger asks to approach the bench.

News 8’s Kyla Russell notes that Allen is smiling at Zapanta, but she does not make eye contact with him.

After the sidebar ends, Luttrell shows Zapanta more photos and asks if certain photos look like her dad in February 2017. She says yes. The gallery did not see the photos.

Auger objects and says the photos are outside the scope of questioning and there is another sidebar. Judge Gull sustains the objections.

At 1:56 p.m. the jury asks questions to Zapanta. She tells the jury she visited the bridge in her teens and crossed the high bridge with her dad and only crossed it one or two times total. Allen is seen smiling as Zapanta leaves."

Delphi Murders trial: Day 15 live blog

Follow Day 15 in the trial of Richard Allen, accused of murdering two girls in Delphi. Stay updated with our live blog for the latest developments.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Tortoise]

Okay I've just skipped through LL's update for that day's evidence, and she says the defense tried to keep the photos out but the prosecution ended up getting them in.

link at 1hr mark

 

[sunshineray]

Jurors. Exhibits in Deliberations?

@minor4th
Not the OP, but (d) from Rule 23* from PrelimInstrx suggests to me that the jurors MAY take exhibits (or copies/reproductions) w them into the delib. room. IDK, ICBWrong.
Welcoming clarification or correction.

Noting that the language is permissive not mandatory re content of what judge MAY authorize re juror trial books.
imo
____________________________________
* "RULE 23. JUROR TRIAL BOOKS"
"In both criminal and civil cases, the court may authorize the use of juror trial books to aid jurors in performing their duties.
Juror trial books may contain:
(a) all given instructions;
(b) information regarding the anticipated trial schedule;
(c) witness lists; and
(d) copies of exhibits admitted for trial."

Redirecting...

in.gov/courts/rules/jury

Can the jurors take notes in their jury books?

 

[mrjitty]

The jury verdict is what it is. I am much more worried that criminal justice is slipping into a conspiratorial frame that plagues everything else these days. Till now it’s fine because even if people want to believe crazy things on the internet it didn’t effect trials. but i don’t think that is true anymore when we have defence teams who mount misinformation campaigns designed to influence the jury and undermine public trust in institutions.

There is a place to discuss the punitive nature of criminal justice but lt that does not answer the question of whether RA is guilty or not. And i suspect many of those upset about pretrial detention will simply move on to the next trial fiasco and forget all about this.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Agreed 100% that the jury focusing on Holeman and that interview is a very bad sign for RA. What does that interview show the jurors?

It shows RA chuckling (per one source) at the idea of him being the "mastermind" behind the murders. The case involves dead children, not a good look for RA. RA says he doesn't care if he lives or dies. “Kill me,” Allen said. “Make my wife *advertiser censored***** rich.” Again, there are deceased children at the center of this case. This is not a good look for Richard Allen. The keepsake bullet is mentioned, RA has no response. And just noticing this: RA "maintained that the cartridge couldn’t have come from his gun and said he carried the firearm only when he went fishing or mushroom hunting." I'm not quite understanding why RA would feel a need for a gun when picking mushrooms or fishing, yet RA sees no need for a gun when he is out for a walk in the same type of environment where you'd fish or pick mushrooms. Does he shoot the mushrooms and fish? If not, I don't really see why this differentiation's been made. Are there people on the trails that he fears are going to rob him of his mushrooms and fish, I doubt it?? And then,

“Did you see those two dead girls?”
“Arrest me,” Allen said.

Whenever the subject of these two murdered children comes up, RA's responds by immediately changing the subject back to himself and his predicament or engaging in other efforts to get out of Dodge. Or as we see in this case, by playing the tough guy and attempting to force LE's hand. Some might think under his circumstances, this is normal behavior. I disagree, I don't think such responses are normal under any circumstances. I think RA is understandably extremely uncomfortable discussing these victims at all in this environment-- because he himself killed them.

And finally,

“What kind of good person kills two people?” Allen asks.

I really think the jury is going to be arriving at the conclusion fairly soon that no good person does. The focus for these jurors, jmo, is who killed Abby and Libby and whether RA is BG. They're not there to try LE and the penal system of Indiana, and I think they know that.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/the-damage-is-done-jurors-watch-richard-allens-interview-with-isp-investigator/

Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog

Day 10 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins at 9 a.m. Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest developments.

www.wishtv.com

What a great post. It brings back the focus on RA and his actions and those are not ones of an innocent man. The Holeman interview also shows that RA was no 'fragile egg'.

RA was robust in 2022, he went on to get a Pharm Tech Certification, he enjoyed his life, not lying curled up in the fetal position as the lady from $450/hr pricey Carmel would have you believe. RA hid in plain sight just as LE/FBI thought.

If RA suffered temporary mental distress or even psychosis after Discovery, it was due to him seeing he was caught, the overwhelming fear of everyone knowing his dirty secrets, especially Wife and Mom. Living with that knowledge coming out and facing a life sentence would surely cause some type of mental health crisis from anybody, yet he could turn it off and on as needed.

Mr. Chameleon RA: fragile egg, pious praying and Bible carrying meek soul, alcoholic with an explosive temper IMO, accused child murderer, sly like a dangerous fox...pick one.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

ALL JMO

 

[BexLuth0r]

I wonder if they were reviewing all the interviews. Didn't someone say that they have to watch the whole interview, even if they just want to review a small snippet?

I was thinking as well, the gun testimony for the prosecution took a whole day.

The jury have so much evidence to go through, I feel for them. It's a lot..it's been heavy for us, I can't imagine the weight they feel.

Hoping for justice. Hoping that tomorrow is the day.