GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #215

[Vern]

I meant a direct link to the defense "claiming that those people really did it and LE covered it up along with prison guards, prosecutors, the judge." I've read that order a time or two. And I don't mean a link to some random "defense surrogate" claiming such.

Well, here's the Defense's Franks I (amongst the numerous others):

_Franks I.pdf

drive.google.com

And a transcript of Dr. Perlmutter's Testimony (Their Odinism Expert for these SODDIs):

_Testimony of Dr. Dawn Pearlmutter Given at Hearing on Motion in Limine Held August 1, 2024.pdf

drive.google.com

I've already linked you the "DENIED" in my previous, but needless to say, the Defense Team keeps trying for these particular "other SODDIs really did it" despite there being nothing tangible that links these already invesitages persons to the crime.

They've done it twice during this trial too - and referencing the above Franks and Dr. Pelmutter while doing so:

_Motion to Admit Evidence of Odinism/Norse Paganism/Ritualistic Killing.pdf

drive.google.com

_The Accused’s Second Motion to Admit Evidence of Odinism/Norse Paganism/Ritualistic Killing and Also Motion to Admit Evidence Concerning Elvis Fields and Brad Holder as Third-Party Suspects.pdf

drive.google.com

So it would seem that the Defence Team was/is pushing this narrative, and continued to attempt to do so during the trial. Similarily to their defense surrogates out there in cyberland continuing the same narrative. Those narratives by them automaticly come with the insinuation that the State (2 X Judges, all of LE, all COs, all witnesses, all evidence experts, quite literally "everything and everyone in this case" [except the defense of course], etc etc etc) are tainting the evidence, "shading their testimonies, and "manipulating" everything to focus on and to pin this on RA instead of the real culprits - the SODDIs.

We've seen these very claims right here on Websleuths about everyone and everything being wrong and lying .... except the Defense. IMO. Unreal IMO.

 

[iamshadow21]

I'm curious about the statistics or even confirmed numbers of wrongful convictions in the USA and worldwide.

How many have claimed they were innocent and yet were wrongfully convicted.

I wonder.

JMO MOO JMT

I suspect the answer is far fewer than have claimed it but a greater number than we should feel comfortable with. It's an imperfect system, and it's inevitable that sometimes, the wrong people get convicted.

Stuff like improved DNA techniques are so important not just for putting away the ones who got away with it, but freeing those who never did it in the first place. I believe in the power of science to throw light in the darkness and expose wrongful convictions where possible.

MOO

 

[photographer4]

I have never claimed in all these threads the I feel it this was a case of "framing RA." Nor have I ever claimed that I know he was or was not involved. I feel it was a poor investigation undertaken by a group of people who would have really benefited with outside help, yet they turned it away. This is independent of how I feel about Judge Gull's reasoning for her rulings.

Hard to understand her reasoning, when they’re usually absent any written explanation! Moo.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Don't forget though that RA knew that the crime scene and location of the girls' remains were well away from the bridge and that they were on RL's private property. He had zero idea at that time that LE could link their killings to having been kidnaped from the bridge.

At the time of DD's interview RA had no idea that he'd actually been filmed by the girls on their cellphone and therefore was definitively connected to them and their kidnapping from the bridge.

Like us, he may have though that image came from a trailcam. Notice that he didn't tell DD that he was actually the witness in the bridge photo whom they were seeking to talk to. He told them only that he had been at the trails and platform 1 of the bridge from 1330-1530 and didn't see the girls. You cannot see over and down into the crime scene bowl from platform 1 of the bridge. We know by BB testimony that that was impossible and that he must have seen the girls.

He didn't have to change his time in 2017. He only had to do that years later after it became wide knowledge that the pic came from Libby's camera and that, additionally, there was a whole crime-linking video of 'down the hill' occuring on the actual bridge itself as the beginning of the actual crime - to their kidnapper and killer.

Exactly, and throw in the fact that RA said he didn't know RL, had never been on his property and had never loaned his gun out or had it stolen as well according to his statement about why would his bullet be recovered from the scene according to his statement in 2022.

<snipped> Page 7 of 8

Richard Allen stated he had not been on that property where the unspent round was found, that he did not know the property owner, and that he had no explanation as to why a round cycled through his firearm would be at that location. Furthermore, he stated that he never allowed anyone to use or borrow the SigSauer Model P226.

Court documents released in Delphi murder case: Read the probable cause affidavit here

 

[AugustWest]

We've seen these very claims right here on Websleuths about everyone and everything being wrong and lying .... except the Defense. IMO. Unreal IMO.

RSBM

No one on here has accused the defense of lying? Are you sure about that?

 

[Vern]

RSBM

No one on here has accused the defense of lying? Are you sure about that?

Funny that's the bit you've focussed on. I was clearly writing of those who believe everything that the State has is lies and maniputed/shaded while thinking the Defense is simply above reproach and their Franks' etc are non-fiction.

For me, "Yes" - their theory of the Odinists is bunk. Their Franks Motion has been shown by evidence and tesitmony to be untrue. And that has been pointed out lots in this thread.

No blood at the scene.
Girls hung up by their feet.
Antlers on Abby ...

etc etc etc IMO.

 

[AugustWest]

Funny that's the bit you've focussed on. I was clearly writing of those who believe everything that the State has is lies and maniputed/shaded while thinking the Defense is simply above reproach and their Franks' etc are non-fiction.

For me, "yes" - their theory of the Odinists is bunk. Their Franks Motion has been shown by evidence and tesitmony to be untrue.

No blood at the scene.
Girls hung up by their feet.
Antlers of Abby ...

etc etc etc IMO.

Fair enough.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I have never claimed in all these threads the I feel it this was a case of "framing RA." Nor have I ever claimed that I know he was or was not involved. I feel it was a poor investigation undertaken by a group of people who would have really benefited with outside help, yet they turned it away. This is independent of how I feel about Judge Gull's reasoning for her rulings.

The CC LE had the ISP and FBI involved right away what other outside help did they turn away?

 

[Tortoise]

So RA is considered a witness against himself? The watching of his videos and listening to his own words on audio? Why is he allowed to confront the jury in deliberations? Nobody can tamper with or influence the jury during deliberations. There's no more testimony being given, just evidence being reviewed. The jury are not witnesses against him, thery're the jurors. These are not proceedings at trial, they're deliberations after the closings of the trial proceedings.

I'm not saying what you posted is not what it is, I'm saying IMO it's wrong and not something the jury should have to be put through at this stage.
Just how I view it. Jury should be left to itself and able to view any evidence by themselves and as many times as they want...in the jury room. the defendant or the prosecutors should have no influence any more, just the evidence.
AJMO

The judge's instructions said it's the jury's choice whether to have him brought to the court.

 

[photographer4]

Respectfully, I wonder what the statistics are of people being interrogated as a potential suspect in a crime who claim they are innocent of that crime during an interrogation? I don't think there's many offenders that walk into LE and say "Yep, you got me I did it" when they're thinking they still have a shot at beating the charges.

RA got away with it hiding in plain sight for 5+ years. He wanted to know what they knew.

JMO

Wanted to know so badly he googled it twice. In 2022. That’s not even all that bad - I bet I have more google searches about it than he does and it happened right by his house and I’m in a whole other country! Moo.

 

[AugustWest]

The CC LE had the ISP and FBI involved right away what other outside help did they turn away?

Carter sent everyone home and asked them to return their work materials.

 

[Davemac1]

Just playing devil’s advocate here… I agree you need to know the time the crime took place in order to know what you need to move away from.

But if RA was the killer, he would know the time the murders took place as soon as they happened. So when he was questioned a couple days later, he knew then what time he needed to move away from in order to distance himself from the scene . He didn’t obtain the knowledge of the date of the crime after his 2017 interview but before his 2022 interviews and then adjust his timings in the 2022 interview.

So it doesn’t make sense to me to say that he has changed his time in 2022 in order to distance himself from the time of the murder. If he had committed the murders, he’d know he needed to distance himself straight away and would have done so in his 2017 interviews.

But he didn't know if there was a time stamp on that photo back then?
I happen to think he went to Dulin to say he was the guy in the photo. But when Dulin didn't mention it he just kept schtum...and then didn't hear back for 5 years!!

 

[photographer4]

He knew he'd been seen by the girls on the bridge and possibly BB as well. Better to come clean than get caught in lie right up front. IMO

I have no idea what any of the witnesses look like so I am curious - do the three girl who think they saw him look anything like who he thought he saw that day? If not, maybe they didn’t see each other?

 

[Vern]

Well we know what he is not doing...because he said he would never do that again...

Which, as I took the expert testimony, is not that someone in a truely psychotic state would have said/how they would have reacted (rather there'd be a non-reaction to that act).

IMO.

 

[sunshineray]

The judge's instructions said it's the jury's choice whether to have him brought to the court.

Well I'll be, smh. Maybe the jurors wanted to watch RA's reactions this time, to seeing and hearing himself testify against himself?

 

[sunshineray]

RSBM

Why are you under the impression that RA is tampering with the jury by being present in a room with them?

I think neither side should be in the juror's presence, while they're in deliberations, reviewing evidence. I explained why that is in my earlier post. JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Well I'll be, smh. Maybe the jurors wanted to watch RA's reactions this time, to seeing and hearing himself testify against himself?

Or maybe he wasn't in the courtroom with them but just in the building? I think there are other reasons for asking him to be brought, such as thinking they may be close to a verdict. Just a guess. Some prisoners have to be transported in the morning if they are needed in court that day, as opposed to being able to come in later. IMO

 

[sunshineray]

I wonder what Richard Allen is doing right now.

Watching football on his tablet...or reading his Bible?

 

[photographer4]

Jurors Taking Notes?

@sunshineray
Briefly:
Yup.

Not so briefly:
From Judge Gull's Preliminary Instructions* which she read to the jurors.
"You may take notes during the trial if you wish....
"Your notes should not be disclosed to anyone other than a fellow juror during deliberations...
"Do not take your notes outside of the courtroom or the jury room...."

* The whole enchilada: More about juror note taking on p 10 of 13.

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/24/Jury-instructions-1.pdf

So they can’t bring them to the hotel to review them in the evenings??? Geez no wonder it’s taking so long to reach a verdict! Moo.

 

[iamshadow21]

So they can’t bring them to the hotel to review them in the evenings??? Geez no wonder it’s taking so long to reach a verdict! Moo.

I think it's standard that the notes don't leave the court, are kept under lock and key, and get shredded at the end of trial.

MOO