GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #215

[photographer4]

I think it's standard that the notes don't leave the court, are kept under lock and key, and get shredded at the end of trial.

MOO

Interesting. I would just rewrite them in my hotel room every evening from memory to help me think. Then I would compare notes from memory against notes from trial. Would help me see what stood out to me. Moo.

 

[Momofthreeboys]

So RA is considered a witness against himself? The watching of his videos and listening to his own words on audio? Why is he allowed to confront the jury in deliberations? Nobody can tamper with or influence the jury during deliberations. There's no more testimony being given, just evidence being reviewed. The jury are not witnesses against him, thery're the jurors. These are not proceedings at trial, they're deliberations after the closings of the trial proceedings.

I'm not saying what you posted is not what it is, I'm saying IMO it's wrong and not something the jury should have to be put through at this stage.
Just how I view it. Jury should be left to itself and able to view any evidence by themselves and as many times as they want...in the jury room. the defendant or the prosecutors should have no influence any more, just the evidence.
AJMO

What makes you think he influenced jurors? Both prosecution and defense were in the courtroom when the jury requested to view videos. There’s no way their presence would influence jurors.

 

[INfisherman]

Carter sent everyone home and asked them to return their work materials.

After over 4 1/2 years. The following year is when the tip was found. I’m curious how long the FBI should have remained on the case for investigative purposes?

JMO

 

[Vern]

Interesting. I would just rewrite them in my hotel room every evening from memory to help me think. Then I would compare notes from memory against notes from trial. Would help me see what stood out to me. Moo.

IANAL, but I think if you were doing this as a Juror and it came to the Court's attention that you may find yourself disqualified from continuing.

@AugustWest ?? Your legal opinion on something like this?

 

[girlhasnoname]

There are 3 TMS episodes of what the Due Process Gang (Defense associated attorneys BM, CW, MA) and Internet Cranks messaged from the Unraveling Account, obtained legally from the Owner of the channel. These share conspiratorial and hate theories against the Judge, Prosecution, LE, etc.

June 15, 2024 - The Secret Messages From the Delphi Defenses Brain Trust
Here is the link: Part 1 - Zone of Pain, Part 2 - That's a Job for A Group of Sleuths, Part 3 - A Conversation with Paul Mannion on Truth and True Crime

Episodes

June 15, 2024 The Secret Messages From the Delphi Defense's Brain Trust

MOO
https://murdersheetpodcast.com/episodes

 

[photographer4]

What makes you think he influenced jurors? Both prosecution and defense were in the courtroom when the jury requested to view videos. There’s no way their presence would influence jurors.

Maybe he made them hate him? Or maybe they love him now? Not sure what other influence there could be??

 

[Willow Knight]

No they didn't pull it from thin air, but those people were ruled out. The reason it would be a conspiracy now is because the idea they are in fact involved and the "real killers" would mean that LE just disregarded knowing they are connected and then pursued RA in order to let these Odinist go. That is where a conspiracy comes in. It isn't the fact that this was an angle that LE looked into at the beginning of this investigation. They looked into MANY people and theories. Those were ruled out and they moved on. Now the defense claiming that those people really did it and LE covered it up along with prison guards, prosecutors, the judge, etc. THAT would take a conspiracy.

IMO

MOO

Every word in this post is right on! The DT's huge conspiracy was a spiritual group, and what it took to even get that ridiculous spin in the public ruined many lives. That caused pain to many, many people. I've heard it said the DT didn't come up with that theory, yes the prosecution investigated and found no evidence of their involvement.

The worst for me was attacking the prison guards. Decent people simply doing their job. I spent many years with a criminal defense attorney. Highly sought after AND ethical. He is no longer here to see the trial, I miss him so much right now. His opinion of when it first came out that prison guards were in on this outright lie was pure disgust toward the defense.

I would attach a link if anyone would should ne how to link an opinion.

Justice for Libby and Abby.

 

[sunshineray]

What makes you think he influenced jurors? Both prosecution and defense were in the courtroom when the jury requested to view videos. There’s no way their presence would influence jurors.

You can't know that for certain, a smile or shake of the head, nervous legs. Same goes for the prosecution. Should be no chance now for any visual influences on jurors in deliberations. As I said earlier, AJMO

 

[INfisherman]

What makes you think he influenced jurors? Both prosecution and defense were in the courtroom when the jury requested to view videos. There’s no way their presence would influence jurors.

Simply being devil’s advocate,

Is anything or anyone preventing him from physically speaking? If not, I would be of the opinion he could potentially say something which could not be unheard, similar to how an attorney may do during cross with a witness but have the question/statement objected & sustained & jurors instructed to ignore whatever was said. Once the bell is rung, one cannot really un-ring it.

Another example might be going into a fit of some sort in front of the jury which may be construed as fake or real.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Carter sent everyone home and asked them to return their work materials.

What were the reasons behind him doing that?

 

[AugustWest]

After over 4 1/2 years. The following year is when the tip was found. I’m curious how long the FBI should have remained on the case for investigative purposes?

JMO

My opinion or local law enforcements' opinion? My opinion is that local law enforcement should use every resource available to them for as long as the investigation is ongoing. Carter disagreed.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Carter sent everyone home and asked them to return their work materials.

I'm confused, who is everyone and when did they get sent home by Carter? The FBI were still very involved in the 2019 Press Conference and even after that. Are you speaking of the Rushville 3, specifically Todd Click who was arrested recently for lying on an unrelated matter?

At some point, it's not unusual the FBI will scale back or even remove assistance if there isn't any movement in the case.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

It must be so hard for the alternates having to sit in on deliberations for hours and not be able to talk.

 

[sunshineray]

Simply being devil’s advocate,

Is anything or anyone preventing him from physically speaking? If not, I would be of the opinion he could potentially say something which could not be unheard, similar to how an attorney may do during cross with a witness but have the question/statement objected & sustained & jurors instructed to ignore whatever was said. Once the bell is rung, one cannot really un-ring it.

Another example might be going into a fit of some sort in front of the jury which may be construed as fake or real.

MOO

There are all sorts of possibilities of influence, from both sides, MO

 

[AugustWest]

IANAL, but I think if you were doing this as a Juror and it came to the Court's attention that you may find yourself disqualified from continuing.

@AugustWest ?? Your legal opinion on something like this?

You are only allowed to deliberate inside the walls of the jury room. Does analysis of the data occur outside of the courtroom? Of course. I don't think notes from outside should be allowed in the jury room though.

 

[photographer4]

It must be so hard for the alternates having to sit in on deliberations for hours and not be able to talk.

They may be bored to tears. I would be.

 

[MassGuy]

My opinion or local law enforcements' opinion? My opinion is that local law enforcement should use every resource available to them for as long as the investigation is ongoing. Carter disagreed.

Totally agree. It wouldn’t have helped them catch Allen, as obviously that discovery by Kathy Shank did that. But it would have helped them immensely after the fact.

They could have helped as far as analyzing his devices, figuring out when Allen got rid of that phone, perhaps tracking down data that ISP couldn’t, and perhaps most importantly, providing assistance in regards to how to approach Allen, and how to question him.

That latter one was a huge missed opportunity.

 

[photographer4]

IANAL, but I think if you were doing this as a Juror and it came to the Court's attention that you may find yourself disqualified from continuing.

@AugustWest ?? Your legal opinion on something like this?

I could do it easily enough from memory - recalling what I wrote down in my room and what I left out. I see no issue with this and can’t imagine why anyone would take issue with it??

 

[photographer4]

There are 3 TMS episodes of what the Due Process Gang (Defense associated attorneys BM, CW, MA) and Internet Cranks messaged from the Unraveling Account, obtained legally from the Owner of the channel. These share conspiratorial and hate theories against the Judge, Prosecution, LE, etc.

June 15, 2024 - The Secret Messages From the Delphi Defenses Brain Trust
Here is the link: Part 1 - Zone of Pain, Part 2 - That's a Job for A Group of Sleuths, Part 3 - A Conversation with Paul Mannion on Truth and True Crime

Episodes

June 15, 2024 The Secret Messages From the Delphi Defense's Brain Trust

MOO
Episodes

Sorry, I’m confused as to why this podcast / these episodes matter at all? Has someone been charged with hate crime or conspiracy crimes or something? If not, what is the significance pls?

 

[sunshineray]

There are 3 TMS episodes of what the Due Process Gang (Defense associated attorneys BM, CW, MA) and Internet Cranks messaged from the Unraveling Account, obtained legally from the Owner of the channel. These share conspiratorial and hate theories against the Judge, Prosecution, LE, etc.

June 15, 2024 - The Secret Messages From the Delphi Defenses Brain Trust
Here is the link: Part 1 - Zone of Pain, Part 2 - That's a Job for A Group of Sleuths, Part 3 - A Conversation with Paul Mannion on Truth and True Crime

Episodes

June 15, 2024 The Secret Messages From the Delphi Defense's Brain Trust

MOO
Episodes

And to boot, they had a couple youtubers sitting in the defense seats and one note that we know of (probably more, IMO) was passed from defense to said youtuber during trial. Violation of gag order?