GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #215

[Warwick7]

Totally moo, but this feels like the ultimate slap in the face to Abby, Libby, and their families. Like a little kid “ooh, MY coffee is yummy, I’m so happy I get to enjoy this wonderful drink while you’re sitting there crying over your dead kids. See, I’m not an evil man, reading my bible and smiling at my attorney. Give me head pats and tell me I’m a good boy.” It’s infuriating to me.

I was just thinking the same thing. Thank you for writing all that out!!

 

[INfisherman]

I guess I’m trying to say, and my speculation and opinion only, there are a lot of posters who are absolutely adamant that RA is the perpetrator and there could literally be no one else when I have pointed out and seen there are issues with the prosecutions case that, to me show there is potentially reasonable doubt on whether RA is the perpetrator, and I’m not saying he didn’t do it necessarily, just that it can been seen from some angles as a weak case

I don’t disagree concerning there are major divisions of opinion & major emotions surrounding this case. It’s 2 young girls & they were murdered pretty horrifically & left to die in a cold, wet woods. It’s heartbreaking for some.

There is a mountain of evidence, however it’s mostly circumstantial & that’s not easy to just march right through. The jury has been engaged & asking questions. I wouldn’t expect them to rush to a verdict given all of that. It would be a slap in the face of those girls if they did.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 229974]

They won't comment while the gag order is in place. They have in the past, before the gag order, shown their total support of LE. I'd think that would include the Prosecutors, MO

Yes, most people do trust in their abilities, until they give them reason not to. IMO

 

[twall]

Auger then pointed out to Bozinovski and the jury that on a white sheet Libby arrived in for her autopsy, a hair was found that was consistent with a female DNA profile. The DNA profile has not been matched to anyone.

Delphi teen likely cried before succumbing to wounds - Carroll County Comet

Libby German likely cried after sustaining wounds to her neck, blood spatter expert Major Pat Cicero testified Monday. Cicero noted a streak of moisture and blood running from the corner of the young girl’s eye to her ear. He said in the absence of rain, a tear was the most likely explanation...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

Anyone know if new sheets are used or not?

 

[Warwick7]

His defense team are strongly supporting his innocence imo.

Aren't they supposed to?

 

[getthefax]

Why did RA tell DD he was there until 3:30?

The answer, IMO: he's just not smart.

And it shows.

It was over at 3:30.... so as long as he was "gone" by then, who would know?

He didn't know the juveniles and BB and Libby triangulated him.

He didn't know SC would stick the pin in the end time and create the pyramid.

Didn't know about Libby's phone at all. The timestamps, the video, the audio, the movement, the elevation, the lack of movement...

The girls' bodies were found on the 14th... I daresay, in 2017, only RA knew they were dead by 3:30 on 2/13. I think he felt safe -- he even adjusted his time from 1-3 to 1:30-3:30 iirc during his brief conversation with DD. A sprinkling of truth in the lie...

Important to remember (credit where credit is due, all credit to Libby for filming it and Abby for hiding it) that, without the video, potentially the girls could have been abducted from anywhere within the park, parking lots included, and at any time after drop off. Later, even without the video, Libby's phone would still tell a compelling story, steps, elevation, cessation) but RA didn't know that, didn't know LE would know that.

It is my opinion that RA didn't even consider that the girls had a phone or he would have sent it into the creek (not because of a video he didn't know about but to delay discovery of the crime because of it).

So why didn't he lie about what time he was there? He lied about not seeing the girls, so why not lie about the time too? Maybe it's just what he does. Lies a little, truths a little because somehow it works and people believe him. Life hack.

His comment, "it's not me if ..." is really quite illuminating. In how he thinks. In his brand of logic. Splitting hairs. It's me if I can go home. (Yes, I was there; yes, I was dressed like that; yes, I was on the bridge.) But no, it's not me if it has anything to do with those girls I never met.

Never met? He was there at the same time time as the long-haired babysitter, but I'm guessing it's safe to say he never met her either. It feels like a distancing lie to me. I saw them, I didn't meeeeeet them, therefore, when I say I didn't meet them, I'm (technically) not lying. Liar's wordsmithing.

At the time of that parking lot interview, RA knew he had to be truthful enough in order not to draw hot fire.

Calculated. In a way that made sense to him.

And it worked.

JMO

Just have to say, this is such a good post. So, so good.

 

[MiniMoo]

I have no report on this so it's my opinion, but I daresay he's been sedated for the trial. Moo.

Wouldn't be surprised in the least after suffering Psychosis and being in solitary isolation 12 to 12.5 months over the maximum days of 30 days under Indiana law.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[INfisherman]

Aren't they supposed to?

Evidently through coffee…whatever that means.

 

[photographer4]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
In searching for information about this... I found only that Auger passed a blue sticky note to a podcaster - nothing to suggest it was from RA at all, or even that it involved KA -

"According to pool media reports, Allen can be heard saying he loves the coffee he is drinking. He then shows defense attorney Jennifer Auger a verse in his Bible. Auger later handed a blue sticky note to a podcaster, who is also an attorney, who was sitting in the general seats of the courtroom."

Victims and heroes - Carroll County Comet

“There are two victims in this case, Abby and Libby. They are more than victims; they are also heroes. Libby for recording the video, and Abby for concealing the phone. And both for camouflaging the bullet Richard Allen left behind.” Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland left jurors with that...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I don’t disagree concerning there are major divisions of opinion & major emotions surrounding this case. It’s 2 young girls & they were murdered pretty horrifically & left to die in a cold, wet woods. It’s heartbreaking for some.

There is a mountain of evidence, however it’s mostly circumstantial & that’s not easy to just march right through. The jury has been engaged & asking questions. I wouldn’t expect them to rush to a verdict given all of that. It would be a slap in the face of those girls if they did.

JMO

You’d have to be heartless to not be affected by these murders, IMO.

 

[cherrybier]

I found this really interesting, a lot of locals were asked their thoughts by DD. 36:26 were two people from Fort Wayne which is where the jury is from. Also 40:45 he speaks with an ex CO.

 

[SouthEnd]

I get your point but I feel the need to repeat-
I don’t believe anyone here, on either side of the fence, thinks this was/is a slam dunk case. Not that I’ve noticed/read about anyways.

Slam dunk cases are fairly rare imo.

I’ve seen juries return very swift guilty and not guilty verdicts and unless some of the Jurors publicly speak post trial and tell us the dynamics or specifics of what went down in the Jury room, can only assume/speculate that in those cases, jurors were pretty much all on the same page/convinced as soon as deliberations started and/or shortly thereafter.

It really just depends on the case, the complexities, volume of evidence to go over/review etc, etc. but generally I agree the longer a Jury is out is a sign that one or two or more jurors are not convinced, have more questions, need more time etc. to make their decision for whatever number of reasons.

Personally in this high profile complex of a case, I’m not at all surprised they’ve been deliberating a couple days and won’t be surprised if we don’t hear a verdict on Monday either. I really hope we do, it’s just impossible to predict.

IMHOO

ETA-words

Slam dunk cases rarely go to trial too. Majority of the cases plead out.

 

[Salah11]

I found this really interesting, a lot of locals were asked their thoughts by DD. 36:26 were two people from Fort Wayne which is where the jury is from. Also 40:45 he speaks with an ex CO.

I can’t take anybody seriously when they say it doesn’t match “Rick” when Stevie Wonder can even see BG resembles RA right down to what he admits he wore that day.

 

[cherrybier]

I can’t take anybody seriously when they say it doesn’t match “Rick” when Stevie Wonder can even see BG resembles RA right down to what he admits he wore that day.

The reason I linked it was mainly the two from Fort Wayne, as Bob was asking them if the case received a lot of coverage there, which is important as that's where the jury was pooled.

Moo.

 

[Simply Caustic]

Way back in 2008, Drew Peterson (then-spouse of still-missing Stacy Peterson, former husband of Kathleen Savio) was on trial for Kathleen’s murder (and later, of trying to order a hit on the State’s Attorney for Will County, James Glasgow.) This was a highly publicized trial in the Chicagoland area, with daily updates on radio shows (‘member those? lol) and online discussion aplenty - especially about the strength of the pros case.
As to whether or not he did it, IMO, absolutely he did, but much like this case, many felt the State didn’t prove it. (JMO, from experience here in the WS thread.)
He had a documented alibi and they couldn’t refute it (because Stacy, his new wife and alibi, was conveniently missing and presumed murdered). They’d categorized it as an accidental death for years and upon the missing case filed on Stacy, they reopened it. No fingerprints, and Peterson (a cop) sat in on critical interviews. They didn’t even talk to her family or investigate why she was leaning forward with a head wound in a dry tub. It was suspicious as hell, but there just wasn’t any proof.
The defense moved for a directed verdict - which brings me to my point (finally, sorry!) Judge Burmilla explained his rationale in denying the motion and I thought some might appreciate hearing these words (as I did, jmo):
Judge: “A circumstantial case is built much like a house, brick by brick... the defense argues that this case comes down to the experts; there is no disagreement about that... at the same time, the jurors are entitled to ignore all the experts and rely on their common sense . . . but a reasonable person could return such a verdict. So the defendants motion is denied.” I thought one of my fellow WS brethren might appreciate this l as I did. JMO, sorry for the dissertation-length comment.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Might be a bit difficult when medicated to express anything.

What was it - Prozac.




Link: Emotional Blunting

JMO MOO JMT

Not to mention that defendants are advised not to show any emotion during the trial because no matter what they do, people can and will interpret it differently. If he cries, he’s remorseful for what he’s done,
if he looks away from a display of evidence, he can’t bare to see what he’s done, if he smiles, he’s a heartless murderer. So a defendant must put a poker face on the entire time, whether he’s guilty or not. IMO

 

[photographer4]

Agreed. Seems like only BM is pushing the RA to KA narrative. The misinformation we get from very specific youtubers is wild...

All MOO

Oh I don't know... I prefer BM and AB and LL to MS. I love their ability to dissect what is going on in the trial from a legal stand point!! I don't really like the ones that cause a ton of drama.... Shame we didn't get televised access to this trial - it would be incredibly interesting to have seen imo!

 

[cherrybier]

Not to mention that defendants are advised not to show any emotion during the trial because no matter what they do, people can and will interpret it differently. If he cries, he’s remorseful for what he’s done,
if he looks away from a display of evidence, he can’t bare to see what he’s done, if he smiles, he’s a heartless murderer. So a defendant must put a poker face on the entire time, whether he’s guilty or not. IMO

This is a great post. Imo.

 

[Momofthreeboys]

If there's little evidence to convict RA (as some say), what evidence is there that someone or some ones commit these crimes?

Somebody else that RA didn't see, dressed like him, arriving and leaving at the same time? Driving a black car with identifying rims? With a propensity for chambering a cartridge and leaving one behind? With access to a bladed tool that would leave injuries hard to identify?

[I recall, when a document came out with redactions, trying to determine the word that followed bladed iirc. Too short to be knife. I don't recall now if anyone then guessed tool, but it sure fits with an unknown item which in turns fits with a boxcutter.]

DNA would be great. But it's not just RA's DNA that wasn't there, there wasn't any foreign DNA (just the hair that belonged to a female relative of Libby's and 3 of 72 hairs, without root, inconsistent with Abby and Libby, but not likely to yield helpful results -- we don't even know from where those hairs were recovered which may have had bearing on their investigative value). In any event, there just wasn't a ton of forensic evidence linking RA, but seeing as LE had five years to exhaust other avenues, I daresay there was even less to link anyone besides RA to the crime, try as though LE did.

And speculation isn't enough. Hence, the judge's rulings.

Besides, there is a walllllll of evidence implicating RA, despite no DNA, despite evidence lost to time.

The absence of his phone at a time he said he was using it. His self report. The timing. The gun. The bullet. The explanation for why there wasn't evidence of DNA-heavy SA, the outfit. The familiarity with and collecting of boxcutters.

Plus evidence as supplied by witnesses. The juveniles, BB, SC, AW, LG.

RA had the means, the method and the motive -- and he put himself there. Yes, we wish for more evidence always, but LE couldn't ignore the evidence they did have. And with it, they couldn't put anyone else ON the bridge and they couldn't get RA off of it.

The right man is being tried.

JMO

Some one at the other end of the bridge is the first guess that comes to my mind. I wonder if they did a good job connecting RA at platform 1 and the girls at the other end of the bridge. I am not sure if he has means that makes one leap to the conclusion he had a knife or two in his pocket. He said he had his phone but I don’t recall evidence that he didn’t. It’s possible I missed it by falling asleep one night listen to the attorneys multi hour videos. I have no doubt he was there at the beginning of the bridge.

 

[cherrybier]

Watching Bob's video, every guy on it could be BG! I don't know much about the demographic in Delphi and surrounds but the men seem to dress the same. Moo.