GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #215

[Niner]

Have to leave early this morning - so posting this now....

Monday, November 11th:
*Trial continues (Day 21)-VERDICT WATCH! (Day 4) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Initial bond @ $20M on 10/27/22. On 2/16/23 held with no bond.
Amended charges (on 1/18/24/granted on 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Plead not guilty. Carroll County
*Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer [8/1/24] of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial is over. Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24 & ended with closing arguments on 11/7/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon. Prosecutors rested their case on 10/31/24. Defense began their case on 10/31/24 & rested on 11/7/24 [last witnesses on 11/6/24]. Closing arguments on 11/7/24. *Jury started deliberations on 11/7/24 @ ~2pm to 4pm.
*Total hours: 11/7/24 (Day 1): ~2pm to 4pm. [2 hours]. 11/8/24 (Day 2): 9am-4pm [~7 hours]. 11/9/24 (Day 3): 9am-2pm [~5 hours]. Total deliberation hours: ~14 hours
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. 3 alternates (3 women) One alternate was dismissed for a family emergency on 10/25/24. Jury is sequestered. Will deliberate from 9am to 4pm daily.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-19 (10/18-11/8/24) & Jury Deliberations Day 1-2 (11/7-11/8/24) reference post #364 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-214.728423/page-19
11/9/24 Saturday, Trial Day 20/Verdict Watch (Day 3): Jurors deliberated from 9am to 2pm. Jury asked to watch the Holeman interrogation video & BG video. Total hours of deliberations: ~5 hours.
*Jurors will get an off day on Sunday before resuming discussions Monday morning.
For more info see post #427 (Day 20 blog) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-214.728423/page-22
Trial continues on Monday, 11/11/24 @ 9am with jury deliberations & our Verdict Watch!

 

[technicallymissing]

I would argue as well that many of us here have a perspective on the case as a whole that the jurors don’t have due to perhaps Jg’s refusal to allow certain things into the trial. Moo.

A perspective into just how long a group of people can discuss baby goats, maybe

 

[sunshineray]

Maybe but again, we haven’t had any evidence to suggest this either… moo.

I'm confused on why it matters so much whether RA's gun was in his pocket holstered or not? According to him he had it out and did something with it on the bridge...as told to and testified about by Dr. Wala.

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Eleven: The Van

We discuss the eleventh day of Richard Allen's trial. We heard about Allen's account of abducting Liberty German and Abigail Williams, and how he claimed a van interrupted his plans to rape the girls and instead prompted him to force them across Deer Creek and murder them. Support The Murder...

art19.com

 

[sunshineray]

I would argue as well that many of us here have a perspective on the case as a whole that the jurors don’t have due to perhaps Jg’s refusal to allow certain things into the trial. Moo.

Yes I agree, the jury, thank God have been spared the speculations without nexus, the circus of SM and cameras and have only been shown the admissible evidence according to the law. They now deliberate on that. MO

 

[photographer4]

Maybe because Abby's clothes were drenched in blood, which couldn't happened if her blood had been drained. And same issue with Libby---there were 3 pools of bloods in different area around where she had been stabbed and then moved. So bro draining in a ritual sacrifice ever happened.

There was a hearing where the D had the chance to bring forth some of these witnesses to their claims and they didn't do so. I don't think they should be allowed to bring them to the jury until they would be heard in a formal hearing first, imo.


The initial Franks motion was very conspiratorial. It was designed to create a huge bombshell reaction, which it did. And it was salacious, and full of false accusations---like the Odinist guards FORCING RA to confess or his family would be in danger. THAT is a conspiracy theory if I've ever heard one. And we never heard another word about any of that.

I think we didn’t hear anything further about it at trial bc JG refused to allow certain things into the trial - which included any mention of Odins: “Wednesday’s court order says that it would not allow Odinism into court as the argument”

Delphi murders suspect cannot use Odinism defense, judge says

The attorneys for Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen will not be allowed to make claims that the murders are tied to an Odinistic sacrifice.

www.wishtv.com

The D filed another motion shortly after the trial began seeking to have this allowed, and again were denied:

“In a new filing Oct. 23, the defense is again asking permission to tell the jury about the theory.”

Here's what happened in the Delphi murders trial

A jury found Richard Allen guilty of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German. Here is what happened each day of the trial.

www.wthr.com

I am of the belief that we didn’t hear more about it or the issues with the guards because JG refused to allow it for whatever reason - mooooo.

Regarding the issue of blood on AW’s body -
Was there testimony to say whether the blood absorbed by the hoodie she was found wearing was entirely her own? Genuine question because if that was established, I missed it. I am googling but maybe someone knows off hand?

 

[jepop]

I would argue as well that many of us here have a perspective on the case as a whole that the jurors don’t have due to perhaps Jg’s refusal to allow certain things into the trial. Moo.

The jurors have the perspective they are meant to have as jurors. Jmo. I feel we disagree on fundamentals moo so moving on from circularity and dead horses. But thanks for your thoughts.

 

[sunshineray]

I think we didn’t hear anything further about it at trial bc JG refused to allow certain things into the trial - which included any mention of Odins: “Wednesday’s court order says that it would not allow Odinism into court as the argument”

Delphi murders suspect cannot use Odinism defense, judge says

The attorneys for Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen will not be allowed to make claims that the murders are tied to an Odinistic sacrifice.

www.wishtv.com

The D filed another motion shortly after the trial began seeking to have this allowed, and again were denied:

“In a new filing Oct. 23, the defense is again asking permission to tell the jury about the theory.”

Here's what happened in the Delphi murders trial

A jury found Richard Allen guilty of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German. Here is what happened each day of the trial.

www.wthr.com

I am of the belief that we didn’t hear more about it or the issues with the guards because JG refused to allow it for whatever reason - mooooo.

Regarding the issue of blood on AW’s body -
Was there testimony to say whether the blood absorbed by the hoodie she was found wearing was entirely her own? Genuine question because if that was established, I missed it. I am googling but maybe someone knows off hand?

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Nine: Crime Scene Analysis

We discuss the ninth day of Richard Allen's trial. We had a half-day of testimony from Stacy Bozinovski of the Indianapolis Indiana State Police Laboratory and crime scene expert Major Patrick Cicero. Support The Murder Sheet by buying a t-shirt here: https://www.murdersheetshop.com/ Send tips...

art19.com

 

[shonyakay]

Love this picture of Liberty. She looks so happy. You are missed precious girl.



Photo Credit: German family

 

[sunshineray]

Love this picture of Liberty. She looks so happy. You are missed precious girl.

View attachment 544388

Photo Credit: German family

Sweet darling girls <3

 

[Arkay]

If I was a betting man, which I absolutely am, I’d bet on Tuesday.

I was going to check to the bettor, but I’m wavering on raising for Monday.

My poker face is wilting, I guess.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

From photographer4:

“I would argue as well that many of us here have a perspective on the case as a whole that the jurors don’t have due to perhaps Jg’s refusal to allow certain things into the trial. Moo.”

Concerning the defense scenario that non-traditional religious people murdered the girls…….just me myself, I would have had no problem having TC, former investigator testify, as he did at the 3-day hearing, that he and his team were never able to place these people in Delphi on the day of the murder.
Nor, would I be opposed to Professor Turco testifying that the defense team totally mischaracterized his analysis of the crime scene and never actually even talk to him.
I could go on, but I won’t.


Edit: unbolded some bold

 

[photographer4]

I'm confused on why it matters so much whether RA's gun was in his pocket holstered or not? According to him he had it out and did something with it on the bridge...as told to and testified about by Dr. Wala.

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Eleven: The Van

We discuss the eleventh day of Richard Allen's trial. We heard about Allen's account of abducting Liberty German and Abigail Williams, and how he claimed a van interrupted his plans to rape the girls and instead prompted him to force them across Deer Creek and murder them. Support The Murder...

art19.com

Well if Wala is the one who said RA said he went out to the bridge, I can’t assign any weight to it given how incredibly unprofessional and unethical she was:

“Wala told the court she is no longer at the Department of Corrections.

She admitted that she was familiar with the Richard Allen case. She said she followed the discussions on Facebook, on podcasts, and online. She told Rozzi her interest grew as time went on.”

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 11 | Prison psychologist says Allen made multiple confessions

Allen's former prison psychologist said she advised Allen not to talk about the case but at some point, began receiving confessions from Allen regarding the killings.

www.wrtv.com

Further, if he did something with his gun at the bridge, as Wala noted, then why was no bullet found at the bridge?

“Holeman suggests Allen encountered the girls, that they made him angry, and Allen racked the gun to scare them, ejecting the cartridge.”

Interrogation video shows Delphi suspect get defensive toward investigators

wsbt.com

 

[fcavanaugh]

I think we didn’t hear anything further about it at trial bc JG refused to allow certain things into the trial - which included any mention of Odins: “Wednesday’s court order says that it would not allow Odinism into court as the argument”

Delphi murders suspect cannot use Odinism defense, judge says

The attorneys for Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen will not be allowed to make claims that the murders are tied to an Odinistic sacrifice.

www.wishtv.com

The D filed another motion shortly after the trial began seeking to have this allowed, and again were denied:

“In a new filing Oct. 23, the defense is again asking permission to tell the jury about the theory.”

Here's what happened in the Delphi murders trial

A jury found Richard Allen guilty of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German. Here is what happened each day of the trial.

www.wthr.com

I am of the belief that we didn’t hear more about it or the issues with the guards because JG refused to allow it for whatever reason - mooooo.

RSBM
But the D’s Odinist cult theory wasn’t denied by the court/Judge “for whatever reason”.
It says right in the link you posted the reason why the court denied it:

“The court ultimately denied Allen’s defense to present the evidence. Wednesday’s court order says that it would not allow Odinism into court as the argument “must not be based on speculation, conjecture, rumors, or hearsay, rather than admissible evidence.”

IMHOO

 

[al66pine]

If Jury Tells Judge It Cannot Render Verdict?

Serious question. Does JG actually have a choice? I mean if she sends them back and they still cannot come to a consensus, how is she able to prevent a hung jury? I have no legal knowledge but hung juries do happen. JMVHO

@susiQ
I've not seen/read a pdf of the "Final Instructions" that Judge G. read to jury
and (presumably) provided hard copy to.

One of my previous posts quoted & linked Indiana's Jury Instructions re jury at "Impasse" & I'm repeating it here.
"RULE 28. ASSISTING JURORS AT AN IMPASSE
"If the jury advises the court that it has reached an impasse in its deliberations, the court may, but only in the presence of counsel, and, in a criminal case the parties, inquire of the jurors to determine whether and how the court and counsel can assist them in their deliberative process. After receiving the jurors' response, if any, the court, after consultation with counsel, may direct that further proceedings occur as appropriate."
Indiana Jury Rules IN.'s jury instructions are similar to Colorado law.*

For anyone interested in understanding BACKROUND/context of legal issues of potentially "hung jury," see below* re Colorado law & SCOTUS.

Briefly & oversimplified, when a jury advises judge it cannot reach a verdict, trial judge cannot tell jury--- Go back & deliberate until you reach a verdict, either G or NG. Nor can judge say, if you (jury) don't return a verdict by six tonight (or specified time), I'll declare a mistrial. That's a "time-fuse instruction" discussed at p. 239.

If a jury advises judge multiple times (more than once, but no hard number) that it is at an impasse, and if judge continues telling jury to continue deliberating, then - if def't is convicted and appeals (which is virtually guaranteed) --- then appellate court may/is likely to find that the trial judge forced a juror "to surrender his honest conviction as to the weight and effect of the acts solely because of the opinion of his fellow jurors or for the mere purpose of returning a verdict." (page 238)

IOW, trial judge should not/must not encourage the majority of jurors to BUFFALO or BULLDOZE a single juror or a minority of jurors into 'giving in' to the majority, which deprives def't of constitutional rights.

imo jmo moo. Welcoming clarification or correction.

____________________

* COLORADO (not Indiana) Jury Instructions (when jury is an an impasse)
"E:18 SUPPLEMENTAL INSTRUCTION—WHEN JURORS FAIL TO AGREE
"Since it appears to the Court that your deliberations have been
somewhat lengthy without a verdict being reached, the Court wishes to
suggest a few thoughts that you should consider in your deliberations,
along with the evidence in the case and all of the instructions previously
given.
"It is your duty, as jurors, to consult with one another and to
deliberate with a view to reaching a verdict, if you can do so without
violence to individual judgment. Each of you must decide the case for
yourself, but do so only after an impartial consideration of the evidence
with your fellow jurors. In the course of your deliberations, do not hesitate
to reexamine your own views and change your opinion if convinced it is
erroneous. But do not surrender your honest conviction as to the weight or
effect of evidence solely because of the opinion of your fellow jurors, or for
the mere purpose of returning a verdict.
"You are not advocates. You are judges of the facts. Your sole interest
is to ascertain the truth from the evidence in the case."
^ Page 237 of 3835. Relevant comments run thru page 242.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2022/COLJI-Crim%202022%20-%20Final.pdf

 

[shonyakay]

Abigail Williams​

- Born June 23, 2003

Abby was an 8th grader at Delphi Community Middle School, where she played saxophone in the school band, and was on the volleyball team. She had attended several area churches with her family.


She enjoyed reading, and had a big reading counts number in her language arts class. She loved to camp and swim, and loved being outdoors, she liked riding ATV's with her family on camping trips to Michigan.


She loved all animals, especially her cat Bongo. She enjoyed photography & art, drawing and creating little masterpiece's, that decorated her mothers home.


She and her good friend Libby were excited and looking forward to planning their next 4 years of school together. She would have celebrated her 14th birthday on the 23rd of June.




Photo Credit: Williams' Family

 

[katydid23]

Maybe the FBI didn't think Allen was the murderer? Which is why they were asked by Superintendent Carter to leave the case. JMO

August 2021---FBI left the case

Oct. 28, 2022: Richard Allen was arrested-----Multiple sources told NewsNation local affiliate WXIN that a man was booked in the Carroll County, Indiana, jail in connection with the Delphi homicide investigation. The outlet reported that the man, Richard Allen, was moved to a state facility for his safety.

 

[cherrybier]

Maybe because Abby's clothes were drenched in blood, which couldn't happen if her blood had been drained. And same issue with Libby---there were 3 pools of bloods in different area around where she had been stabbed and then moved. So blood draining in a ritual hanging sacrifice ever happened.

There was a hearing where the D had the chance to bring forth some of these witnesses and they didn't do so. I don't think they should be allowed to bring them to the jury until they would be heard in a formal hearing first, imo.


The initial Franks motion was very conspiratorial. It was designed to create a huge bombshell reaction, which it did. And it was salacious, and full of false accusations---like the Odinist guards FORCING RA to confess or his family would be in danger. THAT is a conspiracy theory if I've ever heard one. And we never heard another word about any of that.

Bbm. I'm not sure this could be proven unless it was captured on tape. Pretty tough for guards to admit something like that, I can't see how they would rat on one another? MOO.

 

[snarast]

But the D’s Odinist cult theory wasn’t denied by the court/Judge “for whatever reason”.
It says right in the link you posted the reason why the court denied it:

“The court ultimately denied Allen’s defense to present the evidence. Wednesday’s court order says that it would not allow Odinism into court as the argument “must not be based on speculation, conjecture, rumors, or hearsay, rather than admissible evidence.”

IMHOO

Hmm yeah, but a 150 lbs lighter KAK might look as much as BG as RA does, if not more.

One bad apple - the odinists - spoiled the only logical contender to BG that the defense had. KAK or other peddos associated with him.

Well if this wasn’t so sad it would be entertaining with the smoke and mirrors, perhaps a few bent spoons and, yeah, lets throw in a goat or two.

IMHO

 

[FromGermany1]

No, 13 months later. The mistake in his name/address was discovered 9/22 and he was arrested 10/28/22.

Is KS the one, who has earned the big reward now?? After all, without her thorough work we wouldn't be, where we are: at the end of a trial.

 

[shonyakay]

Hmm yeah, but a 150 lbs lighter KAK might look as much as BG as RA does, if not more.

One bad apple - the odinists - spoiled the only logical contender to BG that the defense had. KAK or other peddos associated with him.

Well if this wasn’t so sad it would be entertaining with the smoke and mirrors, perhaps a few bent spoons and, yeah, lets throw in a goat or two.

IMHO

Detective Vito testified at the three day hearings that KAK and his father's phones were in use in Peru at the time of killings.