GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #216

[Aussieboy]

No conclusive DNA to place Allen at the scene of the crime, that would have been the best way to see if RA was at the scene. No mention of micro fibre particle transmission recorded, nothing at all found. Someone would have handled the unspent cartridge, there was a smoke butt found at the scene, and someone handled the victims and placed sticks and debris on them. the mobile phone was handled.

Sorry, but it's got to be one of the worst botched up cases I've ever heard of. If the perp were smart enough to avoid leaving DNA behind they would have been smart enough to throw the phone in the water and many other things.

 

[Megnut]

Agreed, quite wise. She also may have not wanted RA supporters cheering in the presence of victims families.

FWIW, IMO the judge made arrangements for RA to be removed from the courthouse immediately after the verdict was entered before the verdict was rendered. Regardless of the verdict, he needed safekeeping and that was her concern.

It showed great foresight.

And created for an orderly verdict.

JMO

 

[Salah11]

No conclusive DNA to place Allen at the scene of the crime, that would have been the best way to see if RA was at the scene. No mention of micro fibre particle transmission recorded, nothing at all found. Someone would have handled the unspent cartridge, there was a smoke butt found at the scene, and someone handled the victims and placed sticks and debris on them. the mobile phone was handled.

Sorry, but it's got to be one of the worst botched up cases I've ever heard of. If the perp were smart enough to avoid leaving DNA behind they would have been smart enough to throw the phone in the water and many other things.

He has been found guilty so the right end result.

 

[Boxer]

It seems she is equally as dependent on him than he is her. All very unhealthy when you considering what he has done.

Moo

Right.
MOO She thinks he's a nut then went nutty and confessed when accused and jailed.
Normal unjustly accused people usually have lots of lawyer time, (crappy lawyers here) talk to family about their innocence, talk to journalists even if the material cant be immediately published,
So she shut him down as more of his usual, but more extreme nut talk.
Either she has not grraped that his nut business is why he was capable of what he was accused of, or she is herself is compartmentalizing to the degree she doesn't care if he did do it, she will support him as if he didn't.

MOO She will make the rounds with YT contrarians/conspiracy creators and make a cottage industry of her denial.
She will support RA to lie himself into personal oblivion - since he guilty - but won't be able to come to terms with it on the chance of successful appeal.

 

[Tortoise]

He has been found guilty so the right end result.

With a highly intelligent and engaged jury, I might add.

Everyone I watched, from whichever side of the table, asserted that.

 

[minor4th]

I have no problem with differing opinions from people whether they are YouTubers or not.

A person making money off their opinion does give me pause because it makes me wonder if that opinion is based on facts and logic or rather a desire to make as much money as possible.

That's why I value your opinion here on Websleuths. It's clear it's your honest opinion that's not affected by monetary gain. JMO.

Thanks.

 

[Aussieboy]

He has been found guilty so the right end result.

Circumstantial evidence, and there have been miscarriages of justice before. I hope more substantial evidence comes out that the public doesn't know about because I bet people in Delphi are going to wonder if they got the right person.

 

[Tortoise]

Circumstantial evidence, and there have been miscarriages of justice before. I hope more substantial evidence comes out that the public doesn't know about because I bet people in Delphi are going to wonder if they got the right person.

Is there a criticism there with respect to circumstantial evidence?

 

[minor4th]

@m00c0w and ors

I am still going down the geofence rabbit hole, because I think newcomer Law Tubers have misrepresented this issue, which will become clear on appeal.

In my opinion, Judge Gull's order following the motion in limine hearing needs to be read in context of Franks III, the state's motion in limine, and the 3 day hearing. On direct appeal, the defence is constrained to this record. Also the order is bland and just restates what the law is anyway.

IMO the record shows the D arguing about 3 phones on a geofence map. And the D knows who these phones belong to. And IMO they called at least one of these witnesses at trial.

So does anyone know of anything else the D raised on the record? Strangely, I never found anything about Geofence that came up at the 3 day hearing, but i could have missed it? And IMO they did not show proof at trial or try to admit it either.

My angle here, is that the geofence is a red herring. Two of the phones IMO, belong to the boyfriend and girlfriend out for a walk, and the girlfriend testified they saw nothing. So this 'geofence' evidence doesn't add anything for the jury. The D knows who the 3 witnesses are and could call them. The D would obviously not be able to claim they were the killers, or that they were at the crime scene.

It is actually strange to me that the D did not call agent Horan at the 3 day hearing, so I can only conclude he wasn't actually useful to them?

Thoughts appreciated!

Judge Gull's Geofence Ruling

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

MOO

That is a strange ruling and seems to be lacking something

 

[minor4th]

I guess the tldr version of what I am saying is the defence didn't call any expert to show why the geofence map should be admissible at trial, or what testimony about it should be allowed.

Is the reason tactical? In other words, the existence of the young couple on the bridge with phones in the geofence serves to highlight that RA's phone isn't there but should be?

MOO

My guess is the geofence was not particularly helpful to the prosecution or defense - and it could have been used to undermine both of their cases.

 

[shonyakay]

@m00c0w and ors

I am still going down the geofence rabbit hole, because I think newcomer Law Tubers have misrepresented this issue, which will become clear on appeal.

In my opinion, Judge Gull's order following the motion in limine hearing needs to be read in context of Franks III, the state's motion in limine, and the 3 day hearing. On direct appeal, the defence is constrained to this record. Also the order is bland and just restates what the law is anyway.

IMO the record shows the D arguing about 3 phones on a geofence map. And the D knows who these phones belong to. And IMO they called at least one of these witnesses at trial.

So does anyone know of anything else the D raised on the record? Strangely, I never found anything about Geofence that came up at the 3 day hearing, but i could have missed it? And IMO they did not show proof at trial or try to admit it either.

My angle here, is that the geofence is a red herring. Two of the phones IMO, belong to the boyfriend and girlfriend out for a walk, and the girlfriend testified they saw nothing. So this 'geofence' evidence doesn't add anything for the jury. The D knows who the 3 witnesses are and could call them. The D would obviously not be able to claim they were the killers, or that they were at the crime scene.

It is actually strange to me that the D did not call agent Horan at the 3 day hearing, so I can only conclude he wasn't actually useful to them?

Thoughts appreciated!

Judge Gull's Geofence Ruling

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

MOO

IIRC, Horan did testify at the 3 day hearings although his testimony was quite short.

 

[Megnut]

@m00c0w and ors

I am still going down the geofence rabbit hole, because I think newcomer Law Tubers have misrepresented this issue, which will become clear on appeal.

In my opinion, Judge Gull's order following the motion in limine hearing needs to be read in context of Franks III, the state's motion in limine, and the 3 day hearing. On direct appeal, the defence is constrained to this record. Also the order is bland and just restates what the law is anyway.

IMO the record shows the D arguing about 3 phones on a geofence map. And the D knows who these phones belong to. And IMO they called at least one of these witnesses at trial.

So does anyone know of anything else the D raised on the record? Strangely, I never found anything about Geofence that came up at the 3 day hearing, but i could have missed it? And IMO they did not show proof at trial or try to admit it either.

My angle here, is that the geofence is a red herring. Two of the phones IMO, belong to the boyfriend and girlfriend out for a walk, and the girlfriend testified they saw nothing. So this 'geofence' evidence doesn't add anything for the jury. The D knows who the 3 witnesses are and could call them. The D would obviously not be able to claim they were the killers, or that they were at the crime scene.

It is actually strange to me that the D did not call agent Horan at the 3 day hearing, so I can only conclude he wasn't actually useful to them?

Thoughts appreciated!

Judge Gull's Geofence Ruling

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

MOO

I think it was a multi-pronged blitz to create a social maelstrom, to be delivered in an opening statement, in the hopes of confusing a jury into doubt.

They knew the female hair was a nonstarter.

They knew who the three phones belonged to. Knew they weren't involved, knew they were witnesses to nothing. But it sure created a spectacle online.

To highlight it in court would of course highlight the fact that RA's phone was not present. Fine, if they could move the timeline but they had to abandon that.

No one thing the Defense raised, in or out of court, held up to scrutiny, but I think their strategy was the barrage.

It wasn't effective with Judge Gull. It wasn't effective with the jury.

The only place it was effective was with certain segments of the public to and for whom it was leaked, disseminated, broadcast and stirred. Conspiracy has become its own brand of entertainment and they used it to their (failed) advantage, in the hopes of creating the illusion of a complicated case.

JMO

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Amen.

Sadly, I see the indulgencing in conspiracies to become the norm, especially as more people flock to youtubers for "the truth." Conspiracies are money-makers for content creators, with a big price tag for the rest of us of undermining faith in systems that actually do work.

jmo

Also concerned about the sense of entitlement and the ensuing violence in a society where women are de facto second class citizens.

 

[Boxer]

Circumstantial evidence, and there have been miscarriages of justice before. I hope more substantial evidence comes out that the public doesn't know about because I bet people in Delphi are going to wonder if they got the right person.

Why. The evidence is overwhelming.
Blaming others SODDI who have alibis means the defense has to at least crack those alibis, which was not done because the individuals the defense wanted to drag into the story were confirmed to be at work, unlike RA who was off that day, has no alibi, and placed himself at the scene.

 

[m00c0w]

@m00c0w and ors

I am still going down the geofence rabbit hole, because I think newcomer Law Tubers have misrepresented this issue, which will become clear on appeal.

In my opinion, Judge Gull's order following the motion in limine hearing needs to be read in context of Franks III, the state's motion in limine, and the 3 day hearing. On direct appeal, the defence is constrained to this record. Also the order is bland and just restates what the law is anyway.

IMO the record shows the D arguing about 3 phones on a geofence map. And the D knows who these phones belong to. And IMO they called at least one of these witnesses at trial.

So does anyone know of anything else the D raised on the record? Strangely, I never found anything about Geofence that came up at the 3 day hearing, but i could have missed it? And IMO they did not show proof at trial or try to admit it either.

My angle here, is that the geofence is a red herring. Two of the phones IMO, belong to the boyfriend and girlfriend out for a walk, and the girlfriend testified they saw nothing. So this 'geofence' evidence doesn't add anything for the jury. The D knows who the 3 witnesses are and could call them. The D would obviously not be able to claim they were the killers, or that they were at the crime scene.

It is actually strange to me that the D did not call agent Horan at the 3 day hearing, so I can only conclude he wasn't actually useful to them?

Thoughts appreciated!

Judge Gull's Geofence Ruling

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

MOO

Yes, the whole origin of the issue with the geofence stuff is the defense was trying to make it sound like 3 random individuals were walking through the crime scene, when in reality that’s just apparently sort of where the center points were on the map, with a large area of uncertainty. The defense omitted (through incompetence or deliberate desire to mislead, we’ll never know) the fact that these were not the exact points of the individuals in question, and the arguments made were based on such faulty logic that the prosecution felt a need to put it in writing that none of that evidence should come in unless the defense can show they’re not just misinterpreting data for their own benefit.

In my opinion, it was entirely reasonable when taken in context. And the ruling itself basically said you can’t admit this stuff as evidence unless you meet the requirements to admit the stuff as evidence. So, IMO, bellyaching about having to meet those requirements tends to mean to me that they probably don’t actually meet the low bar to have it admitted in the first place. At least in the context in which they were trying to use it.

JMO

 

[IceIce9]

Circumstantial evidence, and there have been miscarriages of justice before. I hope more substantial evidence comes out that the public doesn't know about because I bet people in Delphi are going to wonder if they got the right person.

From the local coverage I have see, the Delphi residents are overwhelmingly pleased with the verdict.

I haven’t seen any friends, coworkers, neighbors, providing words of support for Richard Allen.

JMO

 

[Vaderman]

If going forward, after his sentencing, he continues to confess, would it ever be made public?

 

[IceIce9]

Circumstantial evidence, and there have been miscarriages of justice before. I hope more substantial evidence comes out that the public doesn't know about because I bet people in Delphi are going to wonder if they got the right person.

It was a very intelligent, engaged jury.

I believe in them 100%

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Cries of “justice for Abby and Libby” rang out along the sidewalks outside the courthouse Monday, as others simply shouted “today’s the day.”

[…]
“Always believe in prayer, and today is definitely that day,” Ausbrook said smiling, adding she prayed Monday morning outside the courthouse for a resolution in the case.

Ausbrook also began a Facebook group a few years ago honoring the girls, and she said she’s working on current legislation that would prohibit the release of crime scene photos and the pathologist’s report in the Delphi case.

“Our baby girls should never be sold,” she said.

Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen found guilty

DELPHI — After four days and over 18 hours of deliberation, a jury found Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen guilty Monday afternoon in the February 2017 deaths of teenagers Libby

www.kokomotribune.com

 

[Poedelini]

If going forward, after his sentencing, he continues to confess, would it ever be made public?

I think phone calls are recorded and potentially going public if someone is asking for them.
Jmo