GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #216

[Tortoise]

Did I hear it right that the P only played 7 of the confessions to the jury, rather than having them sit through all 61? I bet even 7 seemed like a lot.

I don't think they were all recorded, particularly the confessions to the cell guards and the medical staff.

 

[mrjitty]

Were these people interviewed? They could have seen or heard something.

Yes! Both the D and the Prosecution know who these people are. One of them testified for the D and her boyfriend is one of the other phones (see my posts on this upthread). That is the whole point here. They'd already been ruled out.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Yes.

View attachment 544917

Yes! And as emerged at trial - at least two of those phones were on the bridge after the time of the murders as per the D's own witness. So there is no doubt where the phones were, and what those people saw.

This geofence was only a preliminary investigative tool IMO - it doesn't prove anything additional when the person concerned places themselves on the Bridge. We know where those phones were, and when!

IMO the law tubers are misrepresenting this.

MOO

 

[10ofRods]

Did I hear it right that the P only played 7 of the confessions to the jury, rather than having them sit through all 61? I bet even 7 seemed like a lot.

It's very troubling, though. The whole situation with him confessing to crimes he did not commit (because the people he says he murdered are very much still alive) should have been allowed for the defense, rather than using just the incriminating confessions.

I say this, because it's an obvious area for a successful appeal. An appellate court is going to read all 61 and have some serious legal questions about the defense being denied that in evidence.

IMO.

 

[tlcya]

I hear that sentiment a lot but I can’t think of one high profile child killer who has been harmed in prison. Not since Dahmer. Can anyone?

Late to seeing this post and this may have been discussed and I don't know what constitutes high profile child killer for this discussion but these instances popped immediately when I searched child predator killed in prison:

Richmond Child Molester Deandre Austin Killed In Prison; Cellmate Held For Homicide

Report: Inmate says he killed fellow inmate in prison because he was a child molester

Convict says he did everyone a ‘favour’ by killing 2 child molesters - National | Globalnews.ca

 

[loreet]

MOO

I don't have a link because my opinion is from various sources. From personal conversations with a defense attorney, he mentioned often times that this was true. Also, searches on google support this, what I have found during searches was the top of the hierarchy are murderers doing life and gang members. Especially gang members/bosses with outside connections. IMO

The bottom of the hierarchy is usually snitches. Second to last are child killers and rapists. The younger the child the lower on the hierarchy. IMO

There are forums on the internet that ex cons support this theory. I also remember one ex con stating that many prisoners have children. All this is my opinion after researching it a couple of times.

Larry Nassar.
I also have personal knowledge, thankfully not from my own incarceration but someone I know well who is doing LWOP. Child molesters and murderers are pariahs. Inmates will try to keep these particular crimes to themselves to preserve their lives. But a high profile inmate such as RA in prison for the murders of Abby and Libby will not be able to hide.

 

[Trebor5591]

It's very troubling, though. The whole situation with him confessing to crimes he did not commit (because the people he says he murdered are very much still alive) should have been allowed for the defense, rather than using just the incriminating confessions.

I say this, because it's an obvious area for a successful appeal. An appellate court is going to read all 61 and have some serious legal questions about the defense being denied that in evidence.

IMO.

You're saying the defense was precluded from bringing up RA's obviously false confessions? I don't recall that.

 

[ClearAhead]

It's very troubling, though. The whole situation with him confessing to crimes he did not commit (because the people he says he murdered are very much still alive) should have been allowed for the defense, rather than using just the incriminating confessions.

I say this, because it's an obvious area for a successful appeal. An appellate court is going to read all 61 and have some serious legal questions about the defense being denied that in evidence.

IMO.

I cannot find the direct quote regarding “killing his family” or something like that. It has been discussed quite a lot here how “killing” doesn’t necessarily mean murdering. A great performance “he killed it”.

I don’t think the jury convicted RA solely on the basis of his confessions since the P did an excellent job placing RA on the bridge. As the D already argued RA’s confessions were due to his psychosis, that he admitted to killing his family wouldn’t prove his other 61 confessions were false. Even if it was an accepted appeal, I don’t think it’d change the outcome of a new trial.

Do you have a link for the D being denied the evidence you mention? I don’t recall any mention in that regard.

JMO

ETA
What the D said

Wife of convicted Delphi murderer's response to guilty verdict

The wife of convicted Delphi murderer Richard Allen gave a chilling response after an Indiana jury unanimously declared he was guilty in the brutal killings of Liberty German and Abigail Williams,

www.dailymail.co.uk

“The confessions were nothing but the product of his psychotic mind and should be dismissed entirely and given no weight, they insisted.”

 

[tlcya]

I cannot find the direct quote regarding “killing his family” or something like that. It has been discussed quite a lot here how “killing” doesn’t necessarily mean murdering. A great performance “he killed it”.

I don’t think the jury convicted RA solely on the basis of his confessions since the P did an excellent job placing RA on the bridge. As the D already argued RA’s confessions were due to his psychosis, that he admitted to killing his family wouldn’t prove his other 61 confessions were false. Even if it was an accepted appeal, I don’t think it’d change the outcome of a new trial.

Do you have a link for the D being denied the evidence you mention? I don’t recall any mention in that regard.

JMO

I don't believe the D team were precluded from entering any confessions. I do recall them throwing a hissy when the state didn't enter phone calls with RA in which he stated he had NOT killed the girls and the judge basically ruled the state wasn't required to and that the defense could move to enter those calls themselves if they wanted. To my knowledge they never did because they were unable to authenticate them (which i believe would require them to have someone from IDOC testify as to their authenticity similar to how the state had Harshman do with the calls he reviewed - something along those lines) MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

The D closing seemed overly dramatic and this is the best description of it that I’ve seen yet. It affirms something I’d read earlier - the D were pleading to the jury that RA be found Not Guilty because of his treatment in prison, NOT because he was innocent of the murders of Abby and Libby. Very telling. JMO

Wife of convicted Delphi murderer's response to guilty verdict

The wife of convicted Delphi murderer Richard Allen gave a chilling response after an Indiana jury unanimously declared he was guilty in the brutal killings of Liberty German and Abigail Williams,

www.dailymail.co.uk

“The conditions in which he was held were tantamount to torture. A picture of a medieval rack popped up on the large screen behind Rozzi, followed by a picture of a thumbscrew, which the attorney claimed were 'medieval devices to interrogate people.

'As a society, we've evolved…to a more subtle form called solitary confinement,' he said. 'Whether intentional, reckless or negligent somebody should have spoken out. Where was the moral compass? You are the moral compass.'

Hammering his point home, Rozzi displayed pictures of Allen in open court, taken from prison video that has, to this point, been shielded from public view and seen only by the jury.

<modsnip - posting more than 10% is a copyright violation - see link>

 

[steeltowngirl]

So Baldwin was good cop? Rozzi bad cop?

Baldwin and Rozzi were wannabe cops, imo. Acting as investigators when they should have been acting as defense attorneys.

jmo

 

[shonyakay]

Yes.

View attachment 544917

Thank you so much. I was going to post your username to my earlier post along with @mrjitty but I didn't know how to @ your username.

 

[INfisherman]

It's very troubling, though. The whole situation with him confessing to crimes he did not commit (because the people he says he murdered are very much still alive) should have been allowed for the defense, rather than using just the incriminating confessions.

I say this, because it's an obvious area for a successful appeal. An appellate court is going to read all 61 and have some serious legal questions about the defense being denied that in evidence.

IMO.

Respectfully,

It seemed to me, regardless of what videos or phone calls made during his incarceration which were or were not entered as evidence, the D themselves were attempting to paint a picture he was mentally unstable at the time. They had their own neuropsychologist testify to that. If Dr. Wescott’s testimony is the case, none of what you imply should be considered (according to their claims/case/storyline). It’s contradictory to henpeck that one video/audio concerning people he obviously didn’t kill if one is to agree or suggest he was mentally unstable all along while incarcerated or when that video/audio was recorded.

Evidently the mountain of circumstantial evidence outweighed the single recording where he claimed to have killed people which were still alive. This is all regardless of context (his actions or accusations against him killed his family) which has already been mentioned.

JMO

ETA Respectfully - no snippiness intended

 

[shonyakay]

Now that trial is over I have just been going over and over in my mind what Abby and Libby suffered. The fear, the helplessness, and pain.

How could he do something so awful to two kids and just go on living his life for the next 5 and half years? I will never understand it.

 

[shonyakay]

The D closing seemed overly dramatic and this is the best description of it that I’ve seen yet. It affirms something I’d read earlier - the D were pleading to the jury that RA be found Not Guilty because of his treatment in prison, NOT because he was innocent of the murders of Abby and Libby. Very telling. JMO

Wife of convicted Delphi murderer's response to guilty verdict

The wife of convicted Delphi murderer Richard Allen gave a chilling response after an Indiana jury unanimously declared he was guilty in the brutal killings of Liberty German and Abigail Williams,

www.dailymail.co.uk

“The conditions in which he was held were tantamount to torture. A picture of a medieval rack popped up on the large screen behind Rozzi, followed by a picture of a thumbscrew, which the attorney claimed were 'medieval devices to interrogate people.

'As a society, we've evolved…to a more subtle form called solitary confinement,' he said. 'Whether intentional, reckless or negligent somebody should have spoken out. Where was the moral compass? You are the moral compass.'

Hammering his point home, Rozzi displayed pictures of Allen in open court, taken from prison video that has, to this point, been shielded from public view and seen only by the jury.

<modsnip - posting more than 10% is a copyright violation - see link>

Even Lawyer Lee talked about how it seemed like the Defense Team in their closing was asking the jury to set RA free due to his treatment in prison.

 

[ClearAhead]

Even Lawyer Lee talked about how it seemed like the Defense Team in their closing was asking the jury to set RA free due to his treatment in prison.

They do not even ask the jury to find RA Not Guilty because he’s innocent of the murders! This must be a first.

 

[steeltowngirl]

It's very troubling, though. The whole situation with him confessing to crimes he did not commit (because the people he says he murdered are very much still alive) should have been allowed for the defense, rather than using just the incriminating confessions.

I say this, because it's an obvious area for a successful appeal. An appellate court is going to read all 61 and have some serious legal questions about the defense being denied that in evidence.

IMO.

Hi 10! The confession to killing others who weren’t dead (including himself), were admitted. His words could be taken literally, but I believe it was his way of saying his actions destroyed the relationships he valued the most. RA was/is a very conflicted man grappling with trying to admit his guilt to his family, yet still have them keep on loving him.

He stated he did not want to die," Wala said of Allen. He also said during that meeting, "I killed myself and my family and best friend" and "I'm not going to kill myself. I'm too much of a coward."

'I just want to sign my confession' | Prison psychologist describes Richard Allen's alleged confessions | Day 11 of Delphi murders trial

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

jmo

 

[mrjitty]

IMO they were going for a hung jury. They had no hope of a NG verdict

Hence why they spread so many crazy stories pretrial

MOO

 

[10ofRods]

You're saying the defense was precluded from bringing up RA's obviously false confessions? I don't recall that.

It was apparently decided pre-trial. The defense had all the confessions on their list of evidence, the prosecution had 7.

The obviously false confessions are evidence that goes to the infamous false confession defense.
A lot of jurors (who never heard the discussion about which were to be admitted) would want to hear a smattering.

There are several areas where this could result in an appeal that at least goes above state appellate court. Another one has to do with planting someone in the cell next to him, etc.

I do think he will likely stay convicted in that particular region, with that particular set of appellate judges, but it would have been to his advantage in making the false confession defense.

If his defense team doesn't bring it up on appeal, then I think they are incompetent (which is another possible appeal).

And then of course, there's the fact that he was kept alone in a lit cell for 13 months (said the prison psychologist on the stand).

Odinism, confessions, alleged judicial bias among issues Richard Allen could raise on appeal

"This isn't over at all," a visibly upset Kathy Allen, Richard Allen's wife, said as she left the courthouse Monday, hinting at an inevitable appeal.

www.indystar.com

Apparently the composite pictures (based on witnesses near the bridge that day and on the photo) were not allowed into evidence either.

 

[10ofRods]

Hi 10! The confession to killing others who weren’t dead (including himself), were admitted. His words could be taken literally, but I believe it was his way of saying his actions destroyed the relationships he valued the most. RA was/is a very conflicted man grappling with trying to admit his guilt to his family, yet still have them keep on loving him.

He stated he did not want to die," Wala said of Allen. He also said during that meeting, "I killed myself and my family and best friend" and "I'm not going to kill myself. I'm too much of a coward."

'I just want to sign my confession' | Prison psychologist describes Richard Allen's alleged confessions | Day 11 of Delphi murders trial

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

jmo

Thank you! I saw reporting (from a lawyer actually) that said otherwise. I think this might be the phase where he was medicated (not sure if the trial presented the dates for his anti-psychotic treatment). If he actually thought he'd killed his family, then that's a false confession. If he thought it was figurative, then it's not.

I have no clue what the appellate court will do with all this. Just wish it was tied up a bit better.

Oh, and that article gave good detail on what Wala thought was going on (brief psychosis, no catatonia or delusions). So she must have regarded his statement about "killing family and friends" as metaphorical and not delusional. That's a plus.

IMO