GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #217

[justtrish]

At the end of the day, whether the ringer was on or off doesn't matter one iota, so I really don't understand why the need to keep going on and on and on about it. Either way, it doesn't affect the outcome.

Libby and Abby are still just as dead and Richard Allen is still just as guilty of having killed them.

That poor dead horse........ I mean, really........

I agree I don't understand why it's important. No headset or headphones were plugged in to her phone or they would still be there and plugged in when they were found. No person plugged in anything and then came back to unplug them. If the ringer was on, then it was on. I don't see why RA would even want to take the phone even if he knew it was there. It would track him as he left. He didn't know a video was recorded so why would he need to even worry about it. So if it was ringing or alerting to texts, I don't think he cared at all. He didn't care if they were found because he knew he didn't leave any DNA. Same reason he didn't have his phone or the phone he said he did when he talked to DD.. he knew the phone could trace his movements.. he didn't want to be traced so him knowing about her phone was really no big deal.

 

[ClearAhead]

I agree I don't understand why it's important. No headset or headphones were plugged in to her phone or they would still be there and plugged in when they were found. No person plugged in anything and then came back to unplug them. If the ringer was on, then it was on. I don't see why RA would even want to take the phone even if he knew it was there. It would track him as he left. He didn't know a video was recorded so why would he need to even worry about it. So if it was ringing or alerting to texts, I don't think he cared at all. He didn't care if they were found because he knew he didn't leave any DNA. Same reason he didn't have his phone or the phone he said he did when he talked to DD.. he knew the phone could trace his movements.. he didn't want to be traced so him knowing about her phone was really no big deal.

Yes, obviously the jury got past any important questions relating to RA’s guilt (or not). That’s all that matters. There will always be small details which we’ll never completely understand. IMO it’s the difference between true crime and a novel or movie.

JMO

 

[Bitta]

I have tried to scroll back and find any discussions about Abby's position. Has it ever been discussed how she would have her arms up? It seems unusal for her arms to be in such a position with her neck injury. Do you suppose she was laying on her side unconcious then moved on her back? If so, RA would have noticed the phone/shoe. I guess we won't know any of these answers. I don't think he will speak at sentencing; he is probably hopeful for an appeal. JMO

Someone commented during the trial that they thought RA restrained Abby by sitting on her and having his knees on her arms because she didn't have any blood on her hands. That made sense to me.

 

[Mirabel091]

I was surprised the phone's ringer sound was not discussed at trial, but it might have been. According to the Delphi Debrief Day 16 from WTHR, at about the 22 minute mark in, they talk about how a phone tech discussed how plugging in a headset to the phone could cause it to lose sound. Does this mean the ringer was on and making sound? I agree this question probably will linger until there is an answer as to whether Liberty German's phone ringer was on and could be heard.

I suggested something along these lines on here towards the end of the trial but the consensus here was it would be easier to silence the phone via the volume button, if you were at all worried it might ring out.

I do think, if RA was aware of the phone, he likely wouldn't have known if it was on silent or not, maybe being older he would have assumed the ringer was on (sorry RA if I do you a disservice lol). But mostly I think the defence liked the headphone suggestion because they thought they could link it to their "some other dude planted the bodies in the night" theory.

 

[k-mac]

I agree I don't understand why it's important. No headset or headphones were plugged in to her phone or they would still be there and plugged in when they were found. No person plugged in anything and then came back to unplug them. If the ringer was on, then it was on. I don't see why RA would even want to take the phone even if he knew it was there. It would track him as he left. He didn't know a video was recorded so why would he need to even worry about it. So if it was ringing or alerting to texts, I don't think he cared at all. He didn't care if they were found because he knew he didn't leave any DNA. Same reason he didn't have his phone or the phone he said he did when he talked to DD.. he knew the phone could trace his movements.. he didn't want to be traced so him knowing about her phone was really no big deal.

I agree
not sure why RA hearing not hearing the phone proves or disproves his guilt??
Just wanna make the point though jumping off your post as to why I believe he never even noticed it.

As a previous poster said about the beating of your own heart and breathing plus the girls dying sounds :-( it would be easily missed. even if it did vibrate or ring.

A phone is a recording device and its also access to help.
NO WAY RA would have left them with a phone if he knew they had one.
The medical examiner thinks Abby died very slowly. My guess its possible she was clinging to life after he left.
She may have been able to ring for help. HE didnt know that for sure? I suspect he thought she was dead.... Especially if he left in a hurry.


Just my opinion but if he knew the phone was there he would have not necessarily taken it (tracking) but removed it and thrown it away in the bush so they couldnt use it at some point during the crime.
A huge loose end for a murderer to leave knowingly. Just can't see it.
He was smart enough to not deposit DNA all over the place. He didn't want to get caught.

moo
At the end of the day it doesn't matter, the phone was left behind thankfully.

 

[INfisherman]

I was surprised the phone's ringer sound was not discussed at trial, but it might have been. According to the Delphi Debrief Day 16 from WTHR, at about the 22 minute mark in, they talk about how a phone tech discussed how plugging in a headset to the phone could cause it to lose sound. Does this mean the ringer was on and making sound? I agree this question probably will linger until there is an answer as to whether Liberty German's phone ringer was on and could be heard.

The sole purpose for that even being mentioned at the trial, IMO, was an attempt by the defense to show someone else may have been there (3rd party involvement) and an attempt to throw a wrench into the state’s timeline as far as the girls being at the CS the entire time. None of which the jury bought into.

 

[Vaderman]

I was watching the LG video clip last week & if I wasn’t mistaken, it seemed like when he was taking a final step with his right foot it seemed to almost go more towards his left, crossing a vertical centerline, like an intoxicated person might do. The clip ended too soon to draw much of a definite conclusion but I did notice it. This may explain why some of the CS is so inconsistent & almost random. RA may have been buzzed enough to overlook/miss certain things a fully sober person might not. <shrugs>

Thinking on my own struggles with alcohol abuse, I have considered that the phone being left behind may have been a result of even a moderate amount of alcohol consumption. Either due to a chaotic panic after what he'd done or a false bravado from that liquid courage that that phone would never come back to haunt him.

 

[Spartygirl]

I was surprised the phone's ringer sound was not discussed at trial, but it might have been. According to the Delphi Debrief Day 16 from WTHR, at about the 22 minute mark in, they talk about how a phone tech discussed how plugging in a headset to the phone could cause it to lose sound. Does this mean the ringer was on and making sound? I agree this question probably will linger until there is an answer as to whether Liberty German's phone ringer was on and could be heard.

Well, IMO, there was NO headset plugged into Libby's phone while it was laying underneath Abby.
There was NO headset plugged into Libby's phone at anytime they were being told to strip off their clothes and then while being murdered.

Libby had her ringer turned OFF while she was taking photos of her and Abby;s supposedly fun day at the trails

Then this monster crept up behind them, Libby had the hero instinct to record him and ringer remained Off.
JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

The sole purpose for that even being mentioned at the trial, IMO, was an attempt by the defense to show someone else may have been there (3rd party involvement) and an attempt to throw a wrench into the state’s timeline as far as the girls being at the CS the entire time. None of which the jury bought into.

YES!!!
A bunch of more BS from the D team.
JMO

 

[INfisherman]

bbm
KA with her energetic helper syndrome and also very curious (so I imagine at least) may have found the things years ago and destroyed them, unknowingly by RA. Possible or not?

Sorry, I missed this earlier.

Sure, it’s possible.

However, I tend to believe he’d have kept anything associating him to the crime from KA. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if she never came across any potential keepsakes & he destroyed them himself once he was interviewed in 2022 at the very latest. The sock was probably destroyed (burned) or thrown away along with the box cutters & that more than likely occurred immediately after the murders. The phone & panties were more dear to him & likely destroyed after the 2022 interview. But for all I know, he could have dealt with them all, once he saw the BG image released to the public.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

I suggested something along these lines on here towards the end of the trial but the consensus here was it would be easier to silence the phone via the volume button, if you were at all worried it might ring out.

RSBM

In addition, older models had a switch on the side that would turn the ringer off or on. If switched to the off position, the ringer would silence & phone would either be silent or vibrate, depending upon how the user had it set up in the phone’s settings.

 

[Boxer]

Runger

I was surprised the phone's ringer sound was not discussed at trial, but it might have been. According to the Delphi Debrief Day 16 from WTHR, at about the 22 minute mark in, they talk about how a phone tech discussed how plugging in a headset to the phone could cause it to lose sound. Does this mean the ringer was on and making sound? I agree this question probably will linger until there is an answer as to whether Liberty German's phone ringer was on and could be heard.

Sound turned off, sound turned down or ringing 1/4 mile from the trail - that impact doea that have?
MOO he heard DG hollering for them and left the scene.
MOO I think before DG started calling he was considering making a bonfire on them, but was disrupted.

 

[WildHuncher]

Runger

Sound turned off, sound turned down or ringing 1/4 mile from the trail - that impact doea that have?
MOO he heard DG hollering for them and left the scene.
MOO I think before DG started calling he was considering making a bonfire on them, but was disrupted.

It takes a massive, hot fire to destroy a body to an extent that prevents the most useful forensic tests. Even then it would take a long time and a lot of wood to build the pyre and for the fire to do its job. But he may not have had a realistic appreciation of the strategy.

 

[Tapeartree]

It takes a massive, hot fire to destroy a body to an extent that prevents the most useful forensic tests. Even then it would take a long time and a lot of wood to build the pyre and for the fire to do its job. But he may not have had a realistic appreciation of the strategy.

Besides being a bumbling goof, he probably was a bit inebriated too. It just baffles my mind that he got away for five years.

 

[dm799]

Besides being a bumbling goof, he probably was a bit inebriated too. It just baffles my mind that he got away for five years.

Just goes to show you don't necessarily have to be some kind of mastermind to get away with murder for multiple years or even forever.

This crime should have been solved very quickly and it was only a combination of luck and the incompetence of those investigating that enabled him to stay free for so long.

If he had not volunteered himself to the authorities would he ever have been apprehended? I would say not.

 

[Boxer]

Runger

I was surprised the phone's ringer sound was not discussed at trial, but it might have been. According to the Delphi Debrief Day 16 from WTHR, at about the 22 minute mark in, they talk about how a phone tech discussed how plugging in a headset to the phone could cause it to lose sound. Does this mean the ringer was on and making sound? I agree this question probably will linger until there is an answer as to whether Liberty German's phone ringer was on and could be heard.

Sound turned off, sound turned down or ringing 1/4 mile from the trail - that impact doea that have?
MOO he heard DG hollering for them and left the scene.
MOO I think before DG started calling he was considering making a bonfire on them, but was disrupted.

It takes a massive, hot fire to destroy a body to an extent that prevents the most useful forensic tests. Even then it would take a long time and a lot of wood to build the pyre and for the fire to do its job. But he may not have had a realistic appreciation of the strategy.

He may have an idea and just got disrupted or lazy.
MOO It really looks like someone starting to buildup a large fire.

 

[somequestions]

I agree that many people have the ring noise on their phone set to silent or vibrate. I wanted to know if there was any clarification that Liberty German's phone was actually on silent or vibrate.

Law enforcement never found the phone Richard Allen had on him in February 2017. Wouldn't that phone have helped him lie about being at home during the time of the crime if he left it at home and did not take it with him to the trails? This was the same phone he took with him when he talked to the conservation officer a few days after the murders.

Maybe once the sentencing is over with, the case evidence will be released and some of the answers to these questions about phones can be answered.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I agree that many people have the ring noise on their phone set to silent or vibrate. I wanted to know if there was any clarification that Liberty German's phone was actually on silent or vibrate.

Law enforcement never found the phone Richard Allen had on him in February 2017. Wouldn't that phone have helped him lie about being at home during the time of the crime if he left it at home and did not take it with him to the trails? This was the same phone he took with him when he talked to the conservation officer a few days after the murders.

Maybe once the sentencing is over with, the case evidence will be released and some of the answers to these questions about phones can be answered.

They had his phone number and the other phone info; how much info could LE have extracted with that?

It wouldn't surprise me if this judge keeps everything sealed even after the sentencing.

 

[INfisherman]

I agree that many people have the ring noise on their phone set to silent or vibrate. I wanted to know if there was any clarification that Liberty German's phone was actually on silent or vibrate.

Law enforcement never found the phone Richard Allen had on him in February 2017. Wouldn't that phone have helped him lie about being at home during the time of the crime if he left it at home and did not take it with him to the trails? This was the same phone he took with him when he talked to the conservation officer a few days after the murders.

Maybe once the sentencing is over with, the case evidence will be released and some of the answers to these questions about phones can be answered.

The defense witness Eldridge testified she couldn’t determine the ringer setting. I couldn’t find any state witness testimony regarding the ringer setting.

Jurors asked if she could tell if Libby’s phone was on silent or set to vibrate.
Eldridge said she didn’t know.

https://fox59.com/news/delphi-murders-expert-says-headphone-jack-inserted-into-libbys-phone-removed-in-dead-of-night/

As others have stated, the detail of whether the phone made noise or not has little to do with whether RA was present or even guilty. However, I do understand details which have yet to be revealed being a point of discussion. I think the subject has been brought up multiple times in the past week & addressed as best as possible considering the lack of full testimony right now.

RA gave his phone to DD in 2017 & the MEID was recorded. RAs phone did not show up in tower dumps or geofencing data. From what I understand, the lack of cell data appearing was known prior to the trial. Because of RAs phone not showing up, the state requested & was granted that the cell data be suppressed. I speculate this was also done so the D couldn’t use it as an alibi (other phones were there, all cleared) for RA & again potentially go down the rabbit hole of SODDI. The only thing the cell data proved was RA lied in 2017. The state evidently didn’t feel that evidence was worth the risk of simply proving he lied. His lie didn’t prove he committed the murders, it’s just more circumstantial evidence & obviously wasn’t needed for a jury to decide upon his guilt.

 

[Spartygirl]

I agree that many people have the ring noise on their phone set to silent or vibrate. I wanted to know if there was any clarification that Liberty German's phone was actually on silent or vibrate.

Law enforcement never found the phone Richard Allen had on him in February 2017. Wouldn't that phone have helped him lie about being at home during the time of the crime if he left it at home and did not take it with him to the trails? This was the same phone he took with him when he talked to the conservation officer a few days after the murders.

Maybe once the sentencing is over with, the case evidence will be released and some of the answers to these questions about phones can be answered.

I've never heard him give an alibi--from your post above---
example--""he was at home during the time of the crime ""
do you have a link for that ???

But to answer your question -- NO-- that phone would NOT have helped him as he admitted to having his phone and checking stock ticker while at the trails/ bridge that day during that time.

That proves him a liar IMO

It really doesn't matter-- he was found GUILTY of 4 counts and murdering these 2 Innocent girls, Libby & Abby.

He will rot in prison for the rest of his evil life !!!!!!!!!!