GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #217

[Tapeartree]

If she's like the teens that I know, her phone was set to silent/vibrate; if it lit up; it was also found under Abby so obviously RA would not have seen that.

I think the phone was on silent, but possible he didn't know. Could he have covered up the phone with a shoe and AW's body so it couldn't be heard? Eventually others would be trying to contact them. Just a thought.

 

[Spartygirl]

I think the phone was on silent, but possible he didn't know. Could he have covered up the phone with a shoe and AW's body so it couldn't be heard? Eventually others would be trying to contact them. Just a thought.

I don't think RA knew the phone was there, JMO

 

[Boxer]

Liberty German knew her father would probably be calling at some point to pick them up? I wonder what her ring tone was for her phone?

I wonder if the phone rang while Richard Allen was placing the sticks on the girls? Sometimes the phone will also light up when a call comes in, even if it is on silence or vibrate.

Maybe the phone malfunctioned due to crossing the creek and then started to work again later? But if that were the case, I would have expected her father to say his calls went directly to voicemail and that there was no ringing.

The jury got to hear the evidence about the phone so maybe there is some other reason to explain it.

His first call was from Wilson Bridge and it rang through. His second call went to voice mail.

 

[somequestions]

I believe Derrick’s first two calls went unanswered, and the last two went straight to voicemail.

I am curious - what is the significance of the phone ringing?

Post in thread 'IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION'
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

It helps establish if Richard Allen was there at the crime scene from approximately 3:15 - 3:45pm be he left to walk up to 300 N and then walk back to his car.

If Richard Allen was worried about Abigail Williams and Liberty German not being dead and stayed to make sure, I think a ringing phone might cause a problem if one of the girls is still alive and decides to answer it. It seems a little strange he would not want to find the ringing phone and throw it in the creek or do something to get rid of it.

 

[steeltowngirl]

It helps establish if Richard Allen was there at the crime scene from approximately 3:15 - 3:45pm be he left to walk up to 300 N and then walk back to his car.

If Richard Allen was worried about Abigail Williams and Liberty German not being dead and stayed to make sure, I think a ringing phone might cause a problem if one of the girls is still alive and decides to answer it. It seems a little strange he would not want to find the ringing phone and throw it in the creek or do something to get rid of it.

Thank you for explaining. I imagine it was a chaotic scene. If he was thinking straight at all, he’d know not to touch the phone, and certainly not take it with him to be tracked.

I choose to believe Abby hid the phone.

jmo

 

[somequestions]

His first call was from Wilson Bridge and it rang through. His second call went to voice mail.

This would mean then that even after crossing the creek, the phone still worked, at least for the first call that Libby's father made to her at around 3:15pm. That would have been about 45 minutes after Liberty German's phone stopped moving at 2:32pm(according to the court room testimony).

Even in the original statement he gave the conservation officer Richard Allen was lying about when he was at the Monon High Bridge trail. He would not have been able to leave until at least around 4:20 - 4:30pm if SC saw him at 3:57pm near the cemetery. I know Richard Allen might not have been keeping track of the time. Did he wear a watch? When he got back to his car, he was probably able to get the time.

 

[Arkay]

. I know Richard Allen might not have been keeping track of the time. Did he wear a watch? When he got back to his car, he was probably able to get the time.

His confusion about time is just more proof IMO that he was lying about watching the stock ticker on his phone.

If he’d had his phone on the bridge, he’d have known the correct time.

 

[somequestions]

I came up with a theory to explain why Richard Allen may not have heard Liberty German's phone. After crossing the creek, at 2:32pm the phone stops moving. Richard Allen then commits the murders over the next 20 minutes but does not stay to make sure the girls are dead while possibly listening to the phone ringing.

He leaves at around 2:50 - 2:55 pm from the crime scene and walks back to his car. Maybe he is even able to still use the trail path before Liberty German's father shows up to be able to walk back to his car. This would then mean he drove away from the old CPS building at around 3:30pm like he originally told the conservation officer. This also gives him time to go to CVS to dispose of the box cutter in the dumpster and then drive home to get cleaned up and drink the other 3 beers.

The only problem is who did SC see at 3:57pm walking along 300 N?

 

[Megnut]

I came up with a theory to explain why Richard Allen may not have heard Liberty German's phone. After crossing the creek, at 2:32pm the phone stops moving. Richard Allen then commits the murders over the next 20 minutes but does not stay to make sure the girls are dead while possibly listening to the phone ringing.

He leaves at around 2:50 - 2:55 pm from the crime scene and walks back to his car. Maybe he is even able to still use the trail path before Liberty German's father shows up to be able to walk back to his car. This would then mean he drove away from the old CPS building at around 3:30pm like he originally told the conservation officer. This also gives him time to go to CVS to dispose of the box cutter in the dumpster and then drive home to get cleaned up and drink the other 3 beers.

The only problem is who did SC see at 3:57pm walking along 300 N?

SC saw Richard Allen.

Possibly Richard Allen left the crime scene before that first call from Libby's dad. He have no real reason to fear the phone. He was looking right at Libby and never saw her filming him. Still, IMO had he known she had a phone, he would have destroyed it, if only to further delay their discovery.

I think he loitered at the sight. Doing what, I don't want to imagine. Then he spent 30-60 minutes moving slowly, to limit his exposure, to his car. He almost succeeded.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

I came up with a theory to explain why Richard Allen may not have heard Liberty German's phone. After crossing the creek, at 2:32pm the phone stops moving. Richard Allen then commits the murders over the next 20 minutes but does not stay to make sure the girls are dead while possibly listening to the phone ringing.

He leaves at around 2:50 - 2:55 pm from the crime scene and walks back to his car. Maybe he is even able to still use the trail path before Liberty German's father shows up to be able to walk back to his car. This would then mean he drove away from the old CPS building at around 3:30pm like he originally told the conservation officer. This also gives him time to go to CVS to dispose of the box cutter in the dumpster and then drive home to get cleaned up and drink the other 3 beers.

The only problem is who did SC see at 3:57pm walking along 300 N?

MOO LG had the ringer off.
Meaning the pjine was ringing but no sound.

 

[INfisherman]

I came up with a theory to explain why Richard Allen may not have heard Liberty German's phone. After crossing the creek, at 2:32pm the phone stops moving. Richard Allen then commits the murders over the next 20 minutes but does not stay to make sure the girls are dead while possibly listening to the phone ringing.

He leaves at around 2:50 - 2:55 pm from the crime scene and walks back to his car. Maybe he is even able to still use the trail path before Liberty German's father shows up to be able to walk back to his car. This would then mean he drove away from the old CPS building at around 3:30pm like he originally told the conservation officer. This also gives him time to go to CVS to dispose of the box cutter in the dumpster and then drive home to get cleaned up and drink the other 3 beers.

The only problem is who did SC see at 3:57pm walking along 300 N?

2 of the 4 girls at Freedom Bridge testified to seeing BG, Betsy Blair testified she saw BG on the MHB, SC testified she saw BG along 300N. RA was not in his car prior to SC seeing him, as no one else driving along 300N reported seeing him/BG & he was never seen by the HH store camera, nor by 3 witnesses on the trails in the MHB area during & after the murders.

He had roughly, at a minimum, 1hr & 20min to murder the girls, move 1 or both bodies, cover them with leaves, sticks & branches & make his way 1/4 of a mile north to 300N. He certainly didn’t kill them & leave. He didn’t need to rush, as no one on the bridge (arguing couple - CM, flannel shirt guy - DM) testified to seeing anyone described like BG or hearing screams or yelling when asked by the D, which would include DG yelling. If they didn’t hear DG, I don’t see RA hearing DG either.

He either ignored or did not see/hear the phone. I tend to believe it remained hidden & he never saw or heard it, just like he never saw the round ejected from his gun when, for whatever reason, he racked it.

Only RA knows what occurred after LG recorded him & prior to being seen by SC. Only RA knows where he went after being seen by SC. Unless RA decides to give the details, it’s anyone’s guess, really. I’m sure you’re not the only person who has questions regarding every detail of the crime & why certain things remain undisclosed. Maybe once the gag order is lifted, more details will become available to the public.

ETA or anyone described like BG

 

[mrjitty]

I think the major mistake the Defense Team made was overestimating their own abilities.

How many times can they submit the same Franks' and SODDIs without providing a shred of credible evidence towards the nexus of one of them potentially being associated/involved/responsible? Had they actually done that, their SODDI would have been allowed in. They were given the opportunity once again at trial to show offer of proof and failed again. Nothing but gossip, rumour and innuendo. Gull never expected the D-Team to "bring actual proof that the third party folks were responsible for the murders" as you state. She asked for them to provide something tangible and credible. Some dude's facebook posted photo of a 'crime scene' (from what was it 2012?? or so) that in no way resembles the actual crime scene ain't going to cut it.

The Defense Team also made a major error when, with their failure to provide anything tangible so many times, that they continued down that rabbit hole instead of working on a viable defense for Richard Allen --- and their vanity and error in that department may very well have cost him the rest of his life in freedom. Wascaly wabbits that they are.

They need to stop blaming Gull for following the law and go take a good, hard look at themseves in the mirror. IMO.

I think they were all in on the Karen Read strategy

The idea is to mobilise 'fans' outside of court to achieve a jury nullification. You do this via constant leaks to social media influencers, combined with motions which are just also mostly designed for the fans

After MW got caught leaking, they used attorneys as conduits instead - but then they also got caught.

It really was a complete fiasco with wider consequences IMO.

 

[Tapeartree]

I don't think RA knew the phone was there, JMO

Do you think he threw all visible clothing into the river or it fell in the river during crossing?

 

[Warwick7]

Do you think he threw all visible clothing into the river or it fell in the river during crossing?

I'm not Spartygirl, but, I feel after both were stripped from waste down he picked Libby, then he forced her to remove everything. Then Abby was allowed to redress so she grabbed whatever was closest to her.

The van arrived, scared RA so he ordered Libby to grab the clothes on the ground and marched them across the creek. I would like to think Libby dropped clothes on purpose (yet hiding the cell phone). She seems like a fast thinker....

Of course all of this is moo.

 

[Spartygirl]

I'm not Spartygirl, but, I feel after both were stripped from waste down he picked Libby, then he forced her to remove everything. Then Abby was allowed to redress so she grabbed whatever was closest to her.

The van arrived, scared RA so he ordered Libby to grab the clothes on the ground and marched them across the creek. I would like to think Libby dropped clothes on purpose (yet hiding the cell phone). She seems like a fast thinker....

Of course all of this is moo.

I also think that scenario is how some clothes were in the creek.


They may have dropped accidentally, which even if Libby was aware some dropped, she purposely left them there
or Libby purposely dropped them.

She was hoping someone would find the clothing quickly without knowing that RA=BG=Killer would murder them once they got across the creek. JMO

It makes me so angry just typing about it--what this monster did to those girls, the fear they must have felt, the horror of one of them seeing the other one get stabbed, slit across the throat.
Just horrific

RA=BG=Killer is where he should be and may he rot in hel! for what he did to 2 best friends, Libby & Abby.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I came up with a theory to explain why Richard Allen may not have heard Liberty German's phone. After crossing the creek, at 2:32pm the phone stops moving. Richard Allen then commits the murders over the next 20 minutes but does not stay to make sure the girls are dead while possibly listening to the phone ringing.

He leaves at around 2:50 - 2:55 pm from the crime scene and walks back to his car. Maybe he is even able to still use the trail path before Liberty German's father shows up to be able to walk back to his car. This would then mean he drove away from the old CPS building at around 3:30pm like he originally told the conservation officer. This also gives him time to go to CVS to dispose of the box cutter in the dumpster and then drive home to get cleaned up and drink the other 3 beers.

The only problem is who did SC see at 3:57pm walking along 300 N?

I think RA spent a lot more time with the girls than 20 minutes unfortunately. We will never know what exactly happened unless RA comes completely clean.
Libby’s phone stops moving at 2:32pm but a lot more was going on while the phone lay there. Whether the phone was ringing or not doesn’t change anything. RA was manipulating the girls for his fantasy, he probably wouldn’t have even noticed it, and certainly the girls were not in a situation to say “excuse me, could you stop torturing me….I really need to take this call”.
My thought is RA was finally jolted out of his fantasy when he first heard DG on the trail calling Libby’s name. Probably not until about 3:15 or 3:20pm. He just recently killed the girls and began scurrying around covering them with sticks to hide them. Takes about 10 minutes.
He then starts the slow climb up the steep slope to the cemetery. That’s at least 15 minutes and add a few more looking around to see if anyone is watching. He finally starts walking back to his car.
SC saw RA on 300 N around 3:57pm. Cross examination did not make a dent in her testimony.
The timeline is correct. The only person walking along 300 N just before 4pm on February 13 2017 is Richard Allen, convicted child murderer.
Any attempt to manipulate the timeline to try and insert someone else into it is misguided at best.

Just my opinion

 

[somequestions]

MOO LG had the ringer off.
Meaning the pjine was ringing but no sound.

But if the first call to Liberty German's phone was from the Wilson Bridge area, wouldn't this suggest her father wanted to contact her to let them know he was on his way so he calls a few minutes before he actually arrives? This way by the time he arrives Libby and Abby would already be walking back to the parking area to be picked up. This is why I really wonder if Liberty German's phone was not making any ringing noise. If the first call was at around 3:15pm, I can only speculate the girls were already dead. Somehow Richard Allen does not hear the phone ringing while placing the sticks and branches on the girls' bodies.

I suppose we will never know, but I would like to know if Liberty German's phone was audibly ringing that day and what the volume setting was.

Maybe on December 20th Richard Allen will end all of this speculation by admitting to the murders at his sentencing. If not, I think questions are going to linger about this case.

 

[TallCoolOne]

What I'd like to know is what time twice over convicted murderer Richard Allen's sentencing is.......

 

[tlcya]

What I'd like to know is what time twice over convicted murderer Richard Allen's sentencing is.......

9 am per the Indy Star
What's next for Richard Allen after Delphi murders conviction?

 

[INfisherman]

If not, I think questions are going to linger about this case.

RSBM

Given that the defendant chose to not speak & the amount of circumstantial evidence with this case, that shouldn’t be too much of a surprise, especially with the restrictions on the media & lack of broadcasting of the trial.

Sure, I have questions, but only for my own curiosity & desire to know exactly what occurred & why certain events happened the way they did.