GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #217

[k-mac]

But if the first call to Liberty German's phone was from the Wilson Bridge area, wouldn't this suggest her father wanted to contact her to let them know he was on his way so he calls a few minutes before he actually arrives? This way by the time he arrives Libby and Abby would already be walking back to the parking area to be picked up. This is why I really wonder if Liberty German's phone was not making any ringing noise. If the first call was at around 3:15pm, I can only speculate the girls were already dead. Somehow Richard Allen does not hear the phone ringing while placing the sticks and branches on the girls' bodies.

I suppose we will never know, but I would like to know if Liberty German's phone was audibly ringing that day and what the volume setting was.

Maybe on December 20th Richard Allen will end all of this speculation by admitting to the murders at his sentencing. If not, I think questions are going to linger about this case.

kids have their phones on silent all the time.

This really isn't a mystery component.
The girls are their own hero's in keeping that phone from his attention.

The information it had alone sold RA as the killer because the man on the bridge IS THE KILLER.... 8 witnesses including RA admit he is the guy on the bridge.
Therefore RA is the killer.

As he tried to tell his beloved family members over and over again.

 

[Vaderman]

kids have their phones on silent all the time.

This really isn't a mystery component.
The girls are their own hero's in keeping that phone from his attention.

I keep going back and forth on whether or not I think Richard Allen knew about the phone. I've been learning towards thinking he saw it, but he was filmed so discretely that he didn't realize he'd been recorded. Seems like it'd have been more of an albatross if he took the phone rather than just leave it at the scene.

 

[Boxer]

But if the first call to Liberty German's phone was from the Wilson Bridge area, wouldn't this suggest her father wanted to contact her to let them know he was on his way so he calls a few minutes before he actually arrives? This way by the time he arrives Libby and Abby would already be walking back to the parking area to be picked up. This is why I really wonder if Liberty German's phone was not making any ringing noise. If the first call was at around 3:15pm, I can only speculate the girls were already dead. Somehow Richard Allen does not hear the phone ringing while placing the sticks and branches on the girls' bodies.

I suppose we will never know, but I would like to know if Liberty German's phone was audibly ringing that day and what the volume setting was.

Maybe on December 20th Richard Allen will end all of this speculation by admitting to the murders at his sentencing. If not, I think questions are going to linger about this case.

MOO I have no questions, the crime playeded out exactly as I thought except for the assault first being carried out in the area on the south bank where there was the van interruption.
An opportunist trail rapist that went to murder.
The phone was almost certainly set to silent or vibrate as that is how teens set their phones.
He won't confess his wife has told him, he is innocent.

 

[Tapeartree]

I keep going back and forth on whether or not I think Richard Allen knew about the phone. I've been learning towards thinking he saw it, but he was filmed so discretely that he didn't realize he'd been recorded. Seems like it'd have been more of an albatross if he took the phone rather than just leave it at the scene.

Me too. I keep thinking he would have had to notice it. If he threw it away later somewhere else, his location may be tracked and possibly caught on a hidden camera dumping it. I still don't know why he wouldn't have tossed it in the creek. I waver about the phone.

 

[al66pine]

Crime Details. Emerge at Sentencing?

.... I would like to know if ....

Maybe on December 20th Richard Allen will end all of this speculation by admitting to the murders at his sentencing. If not, I think questions are going to linger about this case.

snipped for focus. @somequestions
Yes, ^, one [ETA: whether Libby's cell ringer was set on audible & the vol. setting] of many questions that some of us have.

I'm trying to think of cases in which a convicted person provides answers at SENTENCING to questions like this ^, i.e., crime details.
I'm coming up empty but may be overlooking some.

Occasionally a def't discloses crime-detail information later, say thru a media interview which may be released publicly. Often MUCH LATER. Sometimes to try to shift blame to someone else, to try to argue wrongful conviction. Sometimes as part of campaign for public attention or sympathy, sometimes in conjunction w def't's appeal or other post-conviction relief.

Sometimes convicts spill to others in the prison, who in turn repeat the info. Hearing/reading those claims, personally I keep my SALT shaker handy.
All jmo.

 

[Vern]

But if the first call to Liberty German's phone was from the Wilson Bridge area, wouldn't this suggest her father wanted to contact her to let them know he was on his way so he calls a few minutes before he actually arrives? This way by the time he arrives Libby and Abby would already be walking back to the parking area to be picked up. This is why I really wonder if Liberty German's phone was not making any ringing noise. If the first call was at around 3:15pm, I can only speculate the girls were already dead. Somehow Richard Allen does not hear the phone ringing while placing the sticks and branches on the girls' bodies.

I suppose we will never know, but I would like to know if Liberty German's phone was audibly ringing that day and what the volume setting was.

Maybe on December 20th Richard Allen will end all of this speculation by admitting to the murders at his sentencing. If not, I think questions are going to linger about this case.

Next time you're out and about check out any teen with their phone. They never ring. They're on vibrate precisely because teens have their phones in their hands 90% of the time and shoved in their pocket the other 10%. Normal.

They aren't like me where mine is laying out in the kitchen and I need to hear a ring to know someone is trying to call me.

At 1432hrs, Libby's phone stopped moving forever. With Abby on top of it.

If Libby was alive, even for an hour or so after that, neither she nor Richard Allen would have heard it vibrate or saw it light up.

Libby's dad calling that phone at 1515hrs was already too late - at least for Abby and most likey for Libby too.

Absolutely none of which has any bearing on the outcome of this case. The girls are gone, Richard Allen has been convicted and in D-15 he will be sentenced. Finally. IMO.

 

[LadyL]

But if the first call to Liberty German's phone was from the Wilson Bridge area, wouldn't this suggest her father wanted to contact her to let them know he was on his way so he calls a few minutes before he actually arrives? This way by the time he arrives Libby and Abby would already be walking back to the parking area to be picked up. This is why I really wonder if Liberty German's phone was not making any ringing noise. If the first call was at around 3:15pm, I can only speculate the girls were already dead. Somehow Richard Allen does not hear the phone ringing while placing the sticks and branches on the girls' bodies.

I suppose we will never know, but I would like to know if Liberty German's phone was audibly ringing that day and what the volume setting was.

Maybe on December 20th Richard Allen will end all of this speculation by admitting to the murders at his sentencing. If not, I think questions are going to linger about this case.

idk anyone whose phone ringer is not turned off

 

[INfisherman]

t I keep going back and forth on whether or not I think Richard Allen knew about the phone. I've been learning towards thinking he saw it, but he was filmed so discretely that he didn't realize he'd been recorded. Seems like it'd have been more of an albatross if he took the phone rather than just leave it at the scene.

I believe he probably took only 2 things that weren’t his, a sock (with his DNA on/in it) & a pair of panties.

I was watching the LG video clip last week & if I wasn’t mistaken, it seemed like when he was taking a final step with his right foot it seemed to almost go more towards his left, crossing a vertical centerline, like an intoxicated person might do. The clip ended too soon to draw much of a definite conclusion but I did notice it. This may explain why some of the CS is so inconsistent & almost random. RA may have been buzzed enough to overlook/miss certain things a fully sober person might not. <shrugs>

 

[sunshineray]

This would mean then that even after crossing the creek, the phone still worked, at least for the first call that Libby's father made to her at around 3:15pm. That would have been about 45 minutes after Liberty German's phone stopped moving at 2:32pm(according to the court room testimony).

Even in the original statement he gave the conservation officer Richard Allen was lying about when he was at the Monon High Bridge trail. He would not have been able to leave until at least around 4:20 - 4:30pm if SC saw him at 3:57pm near the cemetery. I know Richard Allen might not have been keeping track of the time. Did he wear a watch? When he got back to his car, he was probably able to get the time.

I think you also have to take into consideration the state RA was probably in. His body may have also played a part in not hearing the phone. I know from experience when, in a crisis situation, the blood gets pumping hard it's audible in the ears as well as your own breathing. Whether Libby did have her phone on silent/vibrate or not, it being under a shoe, under a body...I doubt RA would even be capable of hearing the vibration. Add to that the physicality of chasing Libby and then dragging her back, his pulse was probably drumming in his head. It wouldn't surprise me at all, with the chaos caused by BW's distraction, that RA wouldn't have heard the phone either way. AJMO

 

[Tapeartree]

I have tried to scroll back and find any discussions about Abby's position. Has it ever been discussed how she would have her arms up? It seems unusal for her arms to be in such a position with her neck injury. Do you suppose she was laying on her side unconcious then moved on her back? If so, RA would have noticed the phone/shoe. I guess we won't know any of these answers. I don't think he will speak at sentencing; he is probably hopeful for an appeal. JMO

 

[INfisherman]

I have tried to scroll back and find any discussions about Abby's position. Has it ever been discussed how she would have her arms up? It seems unusal for her arms to be in such a position with her neck injury. Do you suppose she was laying on her side unconcious then moved on her back? If so, RA would have noticed the phone/shoe. I guess we won't know any of these answers. I don't think he will speak at sentencing; he is probably hopeful for an appeal. JMO

Both hands to side of head. He didn’t seem to be as violent towards her compared to LG. Probably more staging (him putting them there).

JMO

ETA Correction to hand position

 

[steeltowngirl]

I have tried to scroll back and find any discussions about Abby's position. Has it ever been discussed how she would have her arms up? It seems unusal for her arms to be in such a position with her neck injury. Do you suppose she was laying on her side unconcious then moved on her back? If so, RA would have noticed the phone/shoe. I guess we won't know any of these answers. I don't think he will speak at sentencing; he is probably hopeful for an appeal. JMO

Maybe her arms were up in an attempt to get up or fight back using any strength she could muster as she lay dying. The thought makes me sick.

I CANNOT WAIT for the moment Richard Allen is sentenced.

Abby was likely restrained or unconscious when she was killed, Cicero said, because there was no blood on her hands or arms and she was found with her hands raised vertically.

"Her final position is almost like she was boxing," he said.

Cicero said he's been to hundreds of crime scenes and described the position of Abby's body as very unusual. "I've never seen it," he said.

He also said Abby likely didn't die right away. "This would have taken some time," he said.

Delphi murder trial: Libby's blood was likely mixed with her tears, expert says

A pattern on Delphi, Indiana, murder victim Libby German's body showed her blood was mixed with moisture, an expert said on the stand.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Boxer]

I have tried to scroll back and find any discussions about Abby's position. Has it ever been discussed how she would have her arms up? It seems unusal for her arms to be in such a position with her neck injury. Do you suppose she was laying on her side unconcious then moved on her back? If so, RA would have noticed the phone/shoe. I guess we won't know any of these answers. I don't think he will speak at sentencing; he is probably hopeful for an appeal. JMO

MOO He probaly saw rhe phone, but did not do anything with it. He could not know there a was some video fron the bridge.

 

[FromGermany1]

I believe he probably took only 2 things that weren’t his, a sock (with his DNA on/in it) & a pair of panties.

I was watching the LG video clip last week & if I wasn’t mistaken, it seemed like when he was taking a final step with his right foot it seemed to almost go more towards his left, crossing a vertical centerline, like an intoxicated person might do. The clip ended too soon to draw much of a definite conclusion but I did notice it. This may explain why some of the CS is so inconsistent & almost random. RA may have been buzzed enough to overlook/miss certain things a fully sober person might not. <shrugs>

bbm
KA with her energetic helper syndrome and also very curious (so I imagine at least) may have found the things years ago and destroyed them, unknowingly by RA. Possible or not?

 

[ClearAhead]

MOO He probaly saw rhe phone, but did not do anything with it. He could not know there a was some video fron the bridge.

Yeah according to GH’s reconstruction by matching up the ties and background the video was captured from 60 to 70 feet away. When the raw video was shown in the courtroom it was mentioned his image was a small blob in the background and upside down at that. If it’s being assumed by others that Libby held up her cellphone to take a video directly in front of RA, that’s definitely not how it was.

Libby had to have been swinging her hand holding her cellphone for the video to be recorded both upside down and right side up. RA was likely too fixated on his attack, rather than paying attention to what she held in her hand.

JMO

 

[somequestions]

I was surprised the phone's ringer sound was not discussed at trial, but it might have been. According to the Delphi Debrief Day 16 from WTHR, at about the 22 minute mark in, they talk about how a phone tech discussed how plugging in a headset to the phone could cause it to lose sound. Does this mean the ringer was on and making sound? I agree this question probably will linger until there is an answer as to whether Liberty German's phone ringer was on and could be heard.

 

[ClearAhead]

I was surprised the phone's ringer sound was not discussed at trial, but it might have been. According to the Delphi Debrief Day 16 from WTHR, at about the 22 minute mark in, they talk about how a phone tech discussed how plugging in a headset to the phone could cause it to lose sound. Does this mean the ringer was on and making sound? I agree this question probably will linger until there is an answer as to whether Liberty German's phone ringer was on and could be heard.

Indeed it’s a fact the phone was located under Abby but it’s the evidence proving BARD RA was guilty or not of the murders of Libby and Abby the jury was required to consider. If the phone made a sound, if RA knew he’d been videoed, would be incidental to the commission of the murders so that’s possibly why it wasn’t dwelled upon, the phone itself would neither prove him guilty or not guilty.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

@KylaBRussell

#NEW: Judge Gull denied a media request to have a camera in the courtroom for the sentencing of #RichardAllen on Dec. 20. She did not offer any explanation as to why. Allen was found guilty last month of murdering #Delphi teens Abby Williams and Libby German.

11:51 AM · Dec 4, 2024

 

[Tapeartree]

@KylaBRussell

#NEW: Judge Gull denied a media request to have a camera in the courtroom for the sentencing of #RichardAllen on Dec. 20. She did not offer any explanation as to why. Allen was found guilty last month of murdering #Delphi teens Abby Williams and Libby German.

11:51 AM · Dec 4, 2024

wonder if discovery will be released or gag order lifted afterwards.

 

[tlcya]

wonder if discovery will be released or gag order lifted afterwards.

Since shortly after Richard Allen was charged, almost everyone involved in the case has been under a gag order. They have not been able to speak to the media. That gag order will lift after Allen is sentenced.
When does the gag order lift in the Delphi murders trial?

Not sure about discovery or if it will ever be released but the gag will go away after the sentence is read.