GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #217

[FrostedGlass]

BM allowed EM to come on his show and spout wild conspiracies with no pushback.

Softball is guaranteed IMO

I'd like to watch that but can't find it. All I find is the CourtTV interview.
Would you please link the source for your statement?

 

[mrjitty]

I'd like to watch that but can't find it. All I find is the CourtTV interview.
Would you please link the source for your statement?

Enjoy!

From around 25mins, I am not going to repeat the specific allegations for obvious reasons. It goes on for several hours.

 

[snarast]

What are the odds of coming up against two child predators within days?

Mind boggling.

Birds of a feather flock together? One ring that unites them all?

I hope KK stays where he is - away from children. And RA is a goner.

IMHO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Enjoy!

From around 25mins, I am not going to repeat the specific allegations for obvious reasons. It goes on for several hours.

Thank you for the link and mm. I don't usually watch DD, it's too long.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Motta will be hosting the 3 clowns next Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday on his podcast starting at 6PM CST.

Post from Defense Diaries Podcast

We are excited to be hosting Richard Allen's defense team next week as Jennifer Auger, Andrew Baldwin and Brad Rozzi will be join us individually on Tuesday,...

youtube.com

I assume popcorn will not be provided & the only elephant, MW, will not be present. Odinists are welcome & encouraged to attend.

I find this too comical. Rozzi and Baldwin, the 2 lead Defense Attorneys in this high profile case, are making their first, highly anticipated media appearance on Defense Diaries with BM.

I guess they're just waiting on a call from Dateline, 48 Hours or even CourtTV...alrighty then.

JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I find this too comical. Rozzi and Baldwin, the 2 lead Defense Attorneys in this high profile case, are making their first, highly anticipated media appearance on Defense Diaries with BM.

I guess they're just waiting on a call from Dateline, 48 Hours or even CourtTV...alrighty then.

JMO

They need just to go away.
They have set lawyering back however far back you go back to before there was any lawyering.
Perhaps a career change….the school of contemporary circus, perhaps…with a minor in unethics.

Circadium – School of Contemporary Circus

Edit: opinion
Attempt at humor?

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1876403687486038474

 

[arielilane]

@NewsyBarbara


Delphi - judge approves 2 appellate attorneys for Richard Allen appeal. Deadline to file any such appeal is 1/20/25.





For anyone wondering why Judge Gull is in charge of approving the number of appellate attorneys Richard Allen gets.


@JuliaCourtTV


Yes @NewsyBarbara, this is still a case under Judge Gull. Even after a sentence, if the defense wants to appeal, they have to ask the same judge for a new trial first. And in this case, they need a new appellate team to file the appeal, so the only judge assigned is Judge Gull.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1876366310147531091

 

[Yemelyan]

From Holeman's interview in the Carroll County Comet, I found the following info interesting:

1. That the medical examiner, Dr. Kohr, was not asked about a box cutter being a possible weapon after RA's confession about the CVS-issued box cutter. He came up with the idea that the wounds could have been caused by a box cutter on his own: “That was a surprise to everybody that (Kohr) said that. I don’t think he even knew about Allen’s confession,” Holeman said. “We did not want to plant seeds, so we did not tell (Kohr) that Allen said he had used a box cutter....I had not heard (that Kohr believed the weapon could be a box cutter) until he said it in court. I had not heard that comparison used prior. All I knew was what was in his report, and that was not, to my knowledge, in his report.”

2. Why he believes Abby's hands were free of blood: “From what was explained and what we believe, it appears that maybe her hands were being held down when she was murdered, and they were also in Libby’s sweatshirt that she was wearing,” he said. “That is the only explanation that I can give; someone had her pinned down and was on top of her or behind her.

3. That investigators still have questions about the crime, which will likely never be fully answered: “Every investigation you work, even when someone has confessed to a crime, they are not going to confess 100%,” he said. “They’re going to downplay their involvement. You don’t ever get all the facts that have happened in any investigation.”

4. That Holeman believed RA's newly discovered belief in God was "manipulative": “Because he’s so manipulative and persuasive, I think he’s a danger to society,” he testified. “I thought he was using religion to manipulate his wife, mother, and corrections officers to get what he wanted. He was trying to get a new iPad and in-person visits with his wife. He used that and other manipulation and persuasive acts." Furthermore, after the family members did not respond well to the confessions, RA began backpedaling and using different tactics to manipulate them, in Holeman's opinion.

5. A lot of RA's suspicious behavior in the October 22nd interrogation video was redacted for the jury, including the incredible number of times RA said "arrest me."

6. What KA revealed in her interview with ISP Detective Harper:
Kathy told officers about her husband’s “anger issues and a drinking problem.” “She helped describe the person that we thought might be responsible for killing Abby and Libby,” he said.

Source: Holeman: ‘We were never going to give up’ - Carroll County Comet

 

[Yemelyan]

From Leazenby's interview with the Carroll County Comet, some other tidbits of information I had not seen before:

1. Why the location of the crime scene shed light on who the killer was: “How close it was (to town), but yet remote,” he said. “How quickly things turned from going from city to county to that remote location. For someone to have the insight to use that remote location, they had to know the area.”

2. That he believes Abby was killed first: "Particularly for him to do what he did to Abby, in essence killing her first and allowing Libby to watch that, that’s pure evil,” he said. “Based on what is known, Libby stayed with her friend; she could have run. I can’t fathom the thoughts or emotions running through her mind at the time.”

3. Leazenby had interactions with RA before his arrest:
“Like most in the community, I’d seen him at CVS,” he said. “As I recall, in what little amount of time I had interacted with him, he was very professional and was doing his job at CVS. “Even as a sheriff, I had no idea. Once I found out where he was employed, I was probably like everyone in the community and thought, ‘Really?’” He reiterates that “I had felt all along that it was someone who knew our area, grew up in our area and knew the lay of the land and had come back, or someone who was currently living in our area."

Source: Patience, persistence, and faith - Carroll County Comet

 

[Boxer]

Zwññ

From Holeman's interview in the Carroll County Comet, I found the following info interesting:

1. That the medical examiner, Dr. Kohr, was not asked about a box cutter being a possible weapon after RA's confession about the CVS-issued box cutter. He came up with the idea that the wounds could have been caused by a box cutter on his own: “That was a surprise to everybody that (Kohr) said that. I don’t think he even knew about Allen’s confession,” Holeman said. “We did not want to plant seeds, so we did not tell (Kohr) that Allen said he had used a box cutter....I had not heard (that Kohr believed the weapon could be a box cutter) until he said it in court. I had not heard that comparison used prior. All I knew was what was in his report, and that was not, to my knowledge, in his report.”

2. Why he believes Abby's hands were free of blood: “From what was explained and what we believe, it appears that maybe her hands were being held down when she was murdered, and they were also in Libby’s sweatshirt that she was wearing,” he said. “That is the only explanation that I can give; someone had her pinned down and was on top of her or behind her.

3. That investigators still have questions about the crime, which will likely never be fully answered: “Every investigation you work, even when someone has confessed to a crime, they are not going to confess 100%,” he said. “They’re going to downplay their involvement. You don’t ever get all the facts that have happened in any investigation.”

4. That Holeman believed RA's newly discovered belief in God was "manipulative": “Because he’s so manipulative and persuasive, I think he’s a danger to society,” he testified. “I thought he was using religion to manipulate his wife, mother, and corrections officers to get what he wanted. He was trying to get a new iPad and in-person visits with his wife. He used that and other manipulation and persuasive acts." Furthermore, after the family members did not respond well to the confessions, RA began backpedaling and using different tactics to manipulate them, in Holeman's opinion.

5. A lot of RA's suspicious behavior in the October 22nd interrogation video was redacted for the jury, including the incredible number of times RA said "arrest me."

6. What KA revealed in her interview with ISP Detective Harper:
Kathy told officers about her husband’s “anger issues and a drinking problem.” “She helped describe the person that we thought might be responsible for killing Abby and Libby,” he said.

Source: Holeman: ‘We were never going to give up’ - Carroll County Comet

About the knife. Police were looking for specialty knives sold in the area in 2017 -18.
They knew the wounds were different from ones from a typical hunting knife.

 

[iamshadow21]

From Holeman's interview in the Carroll County Comet, I found the following info interesting:

1. That the medical examiner, Dr. Kohr, was not asked about a box cutter being a possible weapon after RA's confession about the CVS-issued box cutter. He came up with the idea that the wounds could have been caused by a box cutter on his own: “That was a surprise to everybody that (Kohr) said that. I don’t think he even knew about Allen’s confession,” Holeman said. “We did not want to plant seeds, so we did not tell (Kohr) that Allen said he had used a box cutter....I had not heard (that Kohr believed the weapon could be a box cutter) until he said it in court. I had not heard that comparison used prior. All I knew was what was in his report, and that was not, to my knowledge, in his report.”

2. Why he believes Abby's hands were free of blood: “From what was explained and what we believe, it appears that maybe her hands were being held down when she was murdered, and they were also in Libby’s sweatshirt that she was wearing,” he said. “That is the only explanation that I can give; someone had her pinned down and was on top of her or behind her.

3. That investigators still have questions about the crime, which will likely never be fully answered: “Every investigation you work, even when someone has confessed to a crime, they are not going to confess 100%,” he said. “They’re going to downplay their involvement. You don’t ever get all the facts that have happened in any investigation.”

4. That Holeman believed RA's newly discovered belief in God was "manipulative": “Because he’s so manipulative and persuasive, I think he’s a danger to society,” he testified. “I thought he was using religion to manipulate his wife, mother, and corrections officers to get what he wanted. He was trying to get a new iPad and in-person visits with his wife. He used that and other manipulation and persuasive acts." Furthermore, after the family members did not respond well to the confessions, RA began backpedaling and using different tactics to manipulate them, in Holeman's opinion.

5. A lot of RA's suspicious behavior in the October 22nd interrogation video was redacted for the jury, including the incredible number of times RA said "arrest me."

6. What KA revealed in her interview with ISP Detective Harper:
Kathy told officers about her husband’s “anger issues and a drinking problem.” “She helped describe the person that we thought might be responsible for killing Abby and Libby,” he said.

Source: Holeman: ‘We were never going to give up’ - Carroll County Comet

I remember when we first heard the blood expert testify at that pre trial hearing, and we heard about the lack of blood on her hands. I just got the image immediately of her on her back, and her attacker kneeling on her hands and forearms, looking into her face as he killed her.

I'm so angry his face was the last thing these girls saw.

MOO

 

[Tapeartree]

Why he believes Abby's hands were free of blood: “From what was explained and what we believe, it appears that maybe her hands were being held down when she was murdered, and they were also in Libby’s sweatshirt that she was wearing,” he said. “That is the only explanation that I can give; someone had her pinned down and was on top of her or behind her.

I wonder if any fibers were found on the sweatshirt or pants that couldn't be traced. Why would he make Abby redress in the first place, but not Libby?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

In contrast, Cicero said, Abby’s body displayed fewer blood stains than Libby’s.

“In my analysis of the photographs and the clothing itself, we would expect to see blood on the hands or the sleeves of (Abby’s) clothing and neither was observed,” he said. “There could be several different reasons why, and one was that she was unconscious. I don’t know if that was the case. She could have been bound, or the last explanation is that she was restrained from allowing her hands to touch that area.

“Those seem to be the three best explanations, but unless Richard Allen says, we will never know.”

Cicero said it was a group effort to bring justice for Abby and Libby.

“I will say this until the day I die, it was definitely a team effort, and the State Police did the brunt of all the work out there, so kudos to them,” he said. “My personal belief is that the ISP did an excellent job of providing me with what I needed to render my work.

“It was tough. My role, and even the gentlemen and ladies with ISP and the Carroll County Sheriff’s Office, we may not think about it, but at the end of the day, it is about the truth, and we are seekers of the truth.”

Seven years later - Carroll County Comet

Seven years after Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed, Pat Cicero visited the crime scene to determine what happened to the Carroll County teens. One of his conclusions: sticks were placed on the left side of the girls’ bodies to conceal them from being seen by anyone on the opposite...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

 

[Yemelyan]

When Cicero testified, first at the 3 day hearing, there were a lot of questions about what conclusions he could draw from seeing the crime scene seven years later. In the Carroll County Comet article, he explains:

“I was able to view the spatial relationship, especially between the small tree, where there were blood stains, and where the ladies were located,” he said. “The elevation changes (at the crime scene) and seeing the scene in the aspect of being able to view the opposite side of the riverbank without any type of leaves as it were during the incident seven years prior.

Cicero said seeing the crime scene allowed him to conclude that sticks found on the bodies of the girls were used to camouflage the bodies and not as runes.

“I was asked several times by both the defense and the prosecution concerning why I believe the limbs were placed the way they were,” he said. “As I testified, it is my belief it was to conceal the girls from the opposite side of the bank. If you look at the limbs the vast majority are covering the left side of the girls.”

He also talks about the tree with the L shaped transfer stain:
During the trial, Cicero said the tree is where he believes Libby sustained one, if not all of her injuries. From there, he testified, she was likely dragged to another location before being moved to her final resting spot.

“Initially, I didn’t disagree that it looked like an F, but when you really look at the photographs and when the State Police added a chemical Leuco Crystal Violet that stains only blood it was no longer an ‘F,’ it looked like an ‘upside-down L’ with a transfer stain,” he said. “There was different coloration to the tree bark that people would see that it looks like an ‘F.’

Source: Seven years later - Carroll County Comet

 

[Kittybunny]

A couple of articles from the Carroll County Comet covering Holeman & Sheriff Leazenby:

Holeman: ‘We were never going to give up’ - Carroll County Comet

The following is an in-depth interview with ISP Lt. Jerry Holeman. Holeman spoke with journalist Amy Graham-McCarty about all aspects of the Delphi double-murder case in the immediate days following Richard Allen’s sentencing and the lifting of the gag order. Law enforcement got their man...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

Patience, persistence, and faith - Carroll County Comet

When Tobe Leazenby received a call in 2017 about two missing teenage girls, he wasn’t all that worried. “I remember that day very vividly,” he said. “The county council was meeting late that afternoon. I was in the meeting when one of our deputies came to me and said, ‘Hey, we are looking for a...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

These are great articles from the local press, thank you so much for sharing them! Some interesting nuggets in there about KA and her demeanor while Richard Allen was being interviewed the second time.

“ ISP Detective Jay Harper interviewed Kathy Allen, while Holeman interviewed her husband. Kathy, Holeman said, was hysterical during her interview. At some point, he allowed the couple to speak.

“I believe that she believed the evidence showed he was involved,” he said. “I believe he lied to her that he wasn’t on the bridge, that he said he was only on the trail. I think it was obvious when they played that interview (in the courtroom), and I allowed Kathy Allen to come into the interview room (that she didn’t believe Allen). She wasn’t very receptive to him. She was kind of standoffish and turned away from him.

“She was hysterical for the most part once we told her he was involved.””

 

[Yemelyan]

I wonder if any fibers were found on the sweatshirt or pants that couldn't be traced. Why would he make Abby redress in the first place, but not Libby?

Probably there are as many opinions about why RA would have her re-dress as there are posters on this thread. IMO it's one of the things Holeman is referring to when he says we will never understand why certain things happened, because RA is downplaying what he did in his confessions. RA does not want to admit the reasons that a child was naked in the woods, much less why she was re-dressed in the wrong clothes.

Having said that, I think the majority of opinions fall into these camps:

1. "Undoing" - he was feeling remorse for what he was doing/about to do and decided to allow her a tiny shred of dignity.

2. She did it herself, grabbing whatever clothes were closest to her.

3. Control - He did it to make her compliant, believing that because he allowed her to re-dress, he was also going to allow her to keep her life.

My personal opinion is #3.

 

[technicallymissing]

Pat Cicero on Murder Sheet

The Delphi Murders: First Person: Major Pat Cicero: Part One

In this episode, we will interview Major Pat Cicero of the LaPorte County Sheriff's Office. He was a compelling witness in the Delphi murders case. Check out...

murdersheetpodcast.com

The Delphi Murders: First Person: Major Pat Cicero: Part Two

In this episode, we will continue our interview with Major Pat Cicero of the La Porte County Sheriff's Office. He will now speak about his work in the Delphi...

murdersheetpodcast.com

 

[tlcya]

Probably there are as many opinions about why RA would have her re-dress as there are posters on this thread. IMO it's one of the things Holeman is referring to when he says we will never understand why certain things happened, because RA is downplaying what he did in his confessions. RA does not want to admit the reasons that a child was naked in the woods, much less why she was re-dressed in the wrong clothes.

Having said that, I think the majority of opinions fall into these camps:

1. "Undoing" - he was feeling remorse for what he was doing/about to do and decided to allow her a tiny shred of dignity.

2. She did it herself, grabbing whatever clothes were closest to her.

3. Control - He did it to make her compliant, believing that because he allowed her to re-dress, he was also going to allow her to keep her life.

My personal opinion is #3.

my gut goes with 2. or a combo of 3. and 2. He orders her to redress and she grabs whatever is nearest to get herself covered up quickly, not wanting to set him off.

 

[Betty P]

Pat Cicero on Murder Sheet

The Delphi Murders: First Person: Major Pat Cicero: Part One

In this episode, we will interview Major Pat Cicero of the LaPorte County Sheriff's Office. He was a compelling witness in the Delphi murders case. Check out...

murdersheetpodcast.com

The Delphi Murders: First Person: Major Pat Cicero: Part Two

In this episode, we will continue our interview with Major Pat Cicero of the La Porte County Sheriff's Office. He will now speak about his work in the Delphi...

murdersheetpodcast.com

Are they still saying RA is innocent? I stopped listening after they said that. JMO