GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218

[Bekind89]

That’s what he claimed, yes. It wouldn’t surprise me if that were untrue or not as much of a contributor as he tries to emphasize. He had the wits to cover his face & bring both a box cutter & gun. That tells me it wasn’t a spur of the moment decision. He came prepared to end a life one way or another. No evidence that’s fact, so nothing to really debate. I could be completely wrong. Doesn’t change the outcome, unfortunately.

JMO

Agree, he came very prepared. He probably had fantasized about this for a long time. Jmo

 

[Vern]

If the surveillance video showing BW's white van did not arrive back until almost 2:45pm, that makes a big difference to me. I can understand how BW thought that "around 2:30pm" could actually be around 2:45pm, but it does make a difference. If the phone was already across the creek by 2:32pm, that means that Richard Allen might not have been scared by a van (or white van, whatever his confession said). It did not seem to affect Richard Allen that much if he was already on the other side of the creek by 2:32pm if SC does not see him walking down 300 N until 3:57pm. Which of these witnesses do you believe?

The timestamp of the surveillance video showing BW's van arriving back at the street leading to his house is what needs to be examined, but after all this time wouldn't that already have been done?

What actually caused Richard Allen to take Abigail Williams and Liberty German across the creek? Now, do you not have to take in the possibility that it was to take them to someone's house? I still do not think Ron Logan has anything to do with it, but you have to consider it.

Maybe in a few years when the appellate court actually gets to take a look at this case there will be answers to all these questions. I keep wondering what the jurors think.

Or it all simply implies that the timing on the video was wrong. Which we do know as a fact based upon the defence's own timings.

What we also know is that RA confessed to having the girls within his control when he was interrupted by a white van ... and that white van has been proven to have driven by the area when the girls were under the control of their killer based upon sworn testimony, the video of the van, and RA's own confession.

I'll take that over an already known to be wrong time on a video.

 

[Bekind89]

Or it all simply implies that the timing on the video was wrong. Which we do know as a fact based upon the defence's own timings.

What we also know is that RA confessed to having the girls within his control when he was interrupted by a white van ... and that white van has been proven to have driven by the area when the girls were under the control of their killer based upon sworn testimony, the video of the van, and RA's own confession.

I'll take that over an already known to be wrong time on a video.

Why would anyone believe that someone in the middle of a kidnapping, SA , and murder of two girls in broad daylight would be aware of the exact time?

 

[Emma Peel]

Vinnie - Court TV (yesterday):
Summarized at about 20:52:
"RL lied about his alibi" - for the time the girls were abducted. (he asked a relative to lie for him.)
As for his fishy alibi; RL - later in the day he did make it the fish store but ... "had receipt, but no proof of time".
Report says more than one RL (jailhouse) confession exists.

Barb MacD explains in more detail earlier in the tape.

 

[INfisherman]

Politan wouldn’t know a credible source if it punched him in the face. More likes & subscribes, just like when EM was on there making her outlandish claims.

MOO

 

[INfisherman]

Why would anyone believe that someone in the middle of a kidnapping, SA , and murder of two girls in broad daylight would be aware of the exact time?

It doesn’t really matter. Some folks believe there was a specific choreography presented at trial after DTH & that wasn’t really the case, as those were details only the killer would know. This is also a delay tactic to buy extra time prior to the appeal being filed & quite typical from what I understand. This is going to be a long & grinding process before it’s all said & done.

MOO

 

[Vern]

Goodness, must we go through this yet again?

Yes, RL asked a relative to lie about his alibi. He asked his relative to say that they had actually driven him when RL actually drove himself. That's it. That's all.

It wasn't even because of the girls (as some like to claim), it was simply because RL was prohibited by law from driving on 13 Feb 2017 due to conviction for impaired driving. RL was charged for this, convicted and jailed. Meanwhile that time & date stamped receipt for the fish store was discovered during the search of his house in relation to the murder investigations. They have him on camera earlier at the transfer station. And he was then drinking in the restaurant, then on to the fish store.

Yet again: RA was investigated and cleared. How exhausting.

 

[INfisherman]

I don't get how one can be not so sure about RL being cleared by LE because of an ALLEGED confession made to a not credible fellow inmate and yet be completely convinced that the confessions of the man convicted of the crime, from his own mouth and his own hand, cannot be trusted?

It makes zero logical sense to me. There is NO new information. Nothing in the Motion for corrections is new, as has been illustrated with links repeatedly for pages and pages of this thread. Not one single new thing was introduced in that motion. It was simply a streamlined version of the many frank's motions with the Norse cult horse poop removed.

You know why - because the circus has moved out of the Norse area & back to the area which has been beaten & worn down already & once that happens…well, you know what follows.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

Yet again: RA was investigated and cleared. How exhausting.

RSBM

Typo bud?

Agreed, it’s like stepping in a time machine.

ETA MOO

 

[Bekind89]

It doesn’t really matter. Some folks believe there was a specific choreography presented at trial after DTH & that wasn’t really the case, as those were details only the killer would know. This is also a delay tactic to buy extra time prior to the appeal being filed & quite typical from what I understand. This is going to be a long & grinding process before it’s all said & done.

MOO

Thank you for the explanation, I appreciate it.
Of course I knew there would be an appeal but I still dread it for the families.

 

[somequestions]

Hi @somequestions

RA has consistently told a mixture of truth & lies since the day he spoke to DD. The confessions are no different. He took them DTH to SA them & likely across the creek for more isolation from potential interruption. The phone stopped moving at 2:32. The van could potentially be seen &/or heard from across the creek as it was traveling back the gravel lane. 10-15 minutes difference (if the timestamp is correct) still gives RA plenty of time to be on 300N almost 90 minutes later. It’s also important to note, he’s still the one prior to the van even becoming part of the story.

MOO

I am not questioning whether or not Richard Allen had enough time to commit the crime. I agree 10-15 minutes does not matter when it comes to committing the murders. I am questioning his confession to Dr. Walla about the van being the reason for him having Abigail Williams and Liberty German cross the creek that day.

Maybe Richard Allen was drunk and got his sequence of events out of order? That could be possible. This could mean he had Abby and Libby cross the creek first and then he sees the van because he did see it that day during the murders, but after the creek crossing? What did Dr. Walla say verbatim in her testimony at trial that she claims Richard Allen confessed to her while she was working in the prison?

The defense team messed up. But they also did not question why Richard Allen was not seen on the Hoosier Harvest Store video shortly after being seen by SC at 3:57pm on 300 N either. Maybe there is information out there that only the lawyers in this case know that none of us knows that can explain it all? I think asking these questions would have put more doubt in the minds of the jurors, but we will not know unless they speak out about whether or not this information in the motion to correct errors would have affected their decision.

 

[somequestions]

Me too! As with Richard Allen, I'm trying to understand why a man would confess to a crime he didn't commit.

JMO MOO IMO

I do not understand it either.

Even when I think he could possibly be innocent, I think sometimes why does it matter because if he wants to confess 61 times to being the Delphi murderer maybe it is best to let him? Maybe he is the Delphi murderer, but then I remember even with the tip I submitted during the case, the person was wearing blue jeans and a blue windbreaker jacket.

Or maybe all the confessions are Richard Allen's way of saying that he has already been convicted in the court of public opinion so he kept confessing until his lawyers told him it could be used against him. But then how does he know about the van unless he saw it that day? How is the unspent cartridge LE says can be linked to his gun that was found at the crime scene explained away?

The ultimate opinion that mattered was the jury's decision.

 

[Vern]

RSBM

Typo bud?

Agreed, it’s like stepping in a time machine.

ETA MOO

Typo indeed. Too late for me to edit.

That typo will next show up as 'proof' RA didn't do it.

Time machine .... the equivelant of Defense Echo Chamber/Pretzel Maker.

Should slap a patent on it.

 

[INfisherman]

I am not questioning whether or not Richard Allen had enough time to commit the crime. I agree 10-15 minutes does not matter when it comes to committing the murders. I am questioning his confession to Dr. Walla about the van being the reason for him having Abigail Williams and Liberty German cross the creek that day.

Maybe Richard Allen was drunk and got his sequence of events out of order? That could be possible. This could mean he had Abby and Libby cross the creek first and then he sees the van because he did see it that day during the murders, but after the creek crossing? What did Dr. Walla say verbatim in her testimony at trial that she claims Richard Allen confessed to her while she was working in the prison?

The defense team messed up. But they also did not question why Richard Allen was not seen on the Hoosier Harvest Store video shortly after being seen by SC at 3:57pm on 300 N either. Maybe there is information out there that only the lawyers in this case know that none of us knows that can explain it all? I think asking these questions would have put more doubt in the minds of the jurors, but we will not know unless they speak out about whether or not this information in the motion to correct errors would have affected their decision.

@somequestions

I understood you were questioning his confessions hence my mentioning of his mixture of truth & lies since day 1 when he spoke with DD.

Wala said that RA told her (the one who mixes bits of truth & lies in his statements) that a van spooked him & he led the girls across the creek & murdered them, if one is to believe all of the details & their sequence. As you state, maybe he is misremembering due to being intoxicated or maybe due to it being 6 years after the fact. He also thought he did something with his gun that caused the bullet to drop, which we know was likely not correct, as no unspent bullets were mentioned as found at the bridge.

Sure, he can potentially see &/or hear the van from across the creek - it’s like 300-400 yards away & on top of a steep drop (the driveway). The home from which the video was taken was .25 miles away from the road on which BWs van was seen, over twice as far away as the driveway from across the creek.

I only mentioned the time portion because in an earlier post you mentioned that you thought he shouldn’t be convicted. Also, at least one juror has seen the SODDI evidence & it didn’t seem to sway her confidence in that the right person was convicted. RL was part of SODDI.

I doubt answering questions like why RA wasn’t seen after SC would put doubt in a juror’s mind, et. al., as the one mentioned it was the group of girls, him putting himself on the bridge, the timeline & not a specific confession but the sheer number of confessions that was convincing.

I do agree it would be very nice to know the whole story, but like I’ve said many times, the only person who could do that is RA & he isn’t talking.

You’re entitled to your opinions & none of the above is suggesting you’re not.

Always a good discussion with you.

 

[snooptroop88]

I have always thought Ron Logan had nothing to do with the murders even though he lived right there, walked the trails, and wore the same clothing as bridge guy. But now I am not so sure because I did not know about this supposed confession in May 2017 to an inmate with details about the supposed murder weapon(box cutter). Since Ron Logan is no longer living, he cannot defend himself. In my opinion, the jury should have been allowed to determine whether or not the information about Ron Logan was relevant.

The white van timeline is very important as now I do not think Richard Allen's confession can be trusted. Did Richard Allen confess to it being a white van or just a van? Was Richard Allen transported around in vans while he was in the DOC? If a jailhouse informant could possibly lie about coming up with good factual information (about the box cutter used as the murder weapon), is it not possible Richard Allen could do the same thing with his van confession? None of this proves Richard Allen is innocent, but it gives me more doubt. And I have always found it strange investigators were never able to see Richard Allen or any figure on the Hoosier Harvest Store surveillance camera walking back to their car after SC saw him at 3:57pm walking along 300 N.

I do not think based on this new evidence he should have been convicted. But what matters is what the jury thinks. Would any of this new information in the motion to correct errors have changed their minds about the verdict?

I'm still trying to figure out how a confession from May 2017 is "new." If D really felt this theory with Logan had weight, why didn't they devote the hundreds to thousands of legal hours they spent on pursuing crazed Odinites-- why was that time not instead directed towards pursuit of Logan? Why was their focus always on the ridiculous Odinite plot? Totally agreed that the box cutter info at that stage when the inmate produced the information-- that's definitely of interest because the weapon was indeed a box cutter, and this same information was part of RA's confessions. However, there is also the van, and that was to my understanding not part of this inmate's assertions.

If Ron Logan were indeed the murderer, why'd he make the girls cross the creek? And the clothing was wet, they undoubtedly crossed it. This was his property. If everything had started off as friendly as this inmate claims it did (allegedly according to Logan), there'd be no need to cross any creek. Crossing that creek at that time, in full view of the bridge-- extremely risky. Ron Logan wouldn't have had any need to do this. Richard Allen did.

Also, Ron Logan supposedly made this confession to another inmate while Ron Logan was himself incarcerated. As others are already noting, are we seriously supposed to believe that Ron Logan, who was not displaying any symptoms of psychosis or anything else at that time that we're aware of-- confessed to these murders to another inmate while himself incarcerated? This would potentially be suicidal, and Logan would undoubtedly be aware of that.

My recollection is that the D's reasoning on their wack Odinite theory was that these heinous murders were committed by crazed bloodthirsty Odinites and therefore, Richard Allen was innocent because Richard Allen is not an Odinite. Well, Ron Logan wasn't an Odinite, either. So I guess by the standards of the defense team for convicted murderer Richard Allen, Ron Logan must also be innocent.

LE verified Ron Logan's alibi. While I find the information from the inmate re: the boxcutter interesting, I find it no more interesting than the very strange set of "coincidences" with Kline. I've accepted there are things I'll never know about this case, and they were things that have great weight; but jmo, Richard Allen's guilt will never be one of those things. Convicted murderer Richard Allen is where he belongs. At this point, I have full confidence that he's going to stay there, again, jmo. But also noting that the transparency with which Richard Allen's defense team is transforming "some" other dude did it into any other dude that they can find handy did it-- that to me is more alarming than anything else at this point.

To put it bluntly, this defense team jmo was a trainwreck. I know people on here are making up little diddies for Rick to the tune of "Jack and Diane." I cannot stop picturing Lebrato doing a karaoke version of Steely Dan's "Rikki Don't Lose That Number." It's too late for Rick, and good because he's a murderer, jmo. RIP Abby & Libby.

 

[Bekind89]

@somequestions

I understood you were questioning his confessions hence my mentioning of his mixture of truth & lies since day 1 when he spoke with DD.

Wala said that RA told her (the one who mixes bits of truth & lies in his statements) that a van spooked him & he led the girls across the creek & murdered them, if one is to believe all of the details & their sequence. As you state, maybe he is misremembering due to being intoxicated or maybe due to it being 6 years after the fact. He also thought he did something with his gun that caused the bullet to drop, which we know was likely not correct, as no unspent bullets were mentioned as found at the bridge.

Sure, he can potentially see &/or hear the van from across the creek - it’s like 300-400 yards away & on top of a steep drop (the driveway). The home from which the video was taken was .25 miles away from the road on which BWs van was seen, over twice as far away as the driveway from across the creek.

I only mentioned the time portion because in an earlier post you mentioned that you thought he shouldn’t be convicted. Also, at least one juror has seen the SODDI evidence & it didn’t seem to sway her confidence in that the right person was convicted. RL was part of SODDI.

I doubt answering questions like why RA wasn’t seen after SC would put doubt in a juror’s mind, et. al., as the one mentioned it was the group of girls, him putting himself on the bridge, the timeline & not a specific confession but the sheer number of confessions that was convincing.

I do agree it would be very nice to know the whole story, but like I’ve said many times, the only person who could do that is RA & he isn’t talking.

You’re entitled to your opinions & none of the above is suggesting you’re not.

Always a good discussion with you.

Is it possible that RA actually did pick up a bullet/casing on the bridge after threatening the girls with the gun? My thought was that he could have seen the bullet, picked it up and put in his jacket pocket and unbeknownst to him the
bullet fell out of his pocket at the crime scene.
Who really knows? He will never tell the full truth of what happened that day.

 

[INfisherman]

Is it possible that RA actually did pick up a bullet/casing on the bridge after threatening the girls with the gun? My thought was that he could have seen the bullet, picked it up and put in his jacket pocket and unbeknownst to him the
bullet fell out of his pocket at the crime scene.
Who really knows? He will never tell the full truth of what happened that day.

It’s possible. I tend to feel he either didn’t fully eject it & it sort of jammed & popped out later or he’s simply not accurate in his recollection & did rack the gun across the creek. The questions I have aren’t related to guilt or innocence. One in particular is which way he went after the SC encounter. I feel he went behind & around Mears farm & HH through fields & came out near the end of some RR tracks. But those details aren’t things I cannot live without knowing, for sure.

MOO

 

[Boxer]

Is it possible that RA actually did pick up a bullet/casing on the bridge after threatening the girls with the gun? My thought was that he could have seen the bullet, picked it up and put in his jacket pocket and unbeknownst to him the
bullet fell out of his pocket at the crime scene.
Who really knows? He will never tell the full truth of what happened that day.

MOO
First rack was on the bridge - a lot happened betwern the bridge and the crime scene. He just forgot the gun was racked racked it again so a round popped out lost in the leaves and then somone stepped on it.

 

[FromGermany1]

Vinnie - Court TV (yesterday):
Summarized at about 20:52:
"RL lied about his alibi" - for the time the girls were abducted. (he asked a relative to lie for him.)
As for his fishy alibi; RL - later in the day he did make it the fish store but ... "had receipt, but no proof of time".
Report says more than one RL (jailhouse) confession exists.

Barb MacD explains in more detail earlier in the tape.

KA never gave a tip re SODDI like RL, when she meant, her husband had to be innocent??

 

[girlhasnoname]

What boggles the mind are the people actually saying that poor little out of shape smoker RA could not have committed this crime because he isn't physically capable, yet they have no problem claim that a 77 year old alcoholic with a fear of heights was capable.
No, I don't get it.

Plus RA was in the National Guard and trained on how to maneuver around certain terrain. He lived so close to the trails and I believe he spent a good amount of time there before and after the murders.

JMO