GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #219

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katydid23 said:
Does their speed of travel have anything to do with the Guilt or Innocence factor? Does it impact the case in any way?

I'm just curious what the point is in trying to determine 'how fast' the victims were walking across the bridge. If it is determined they were walking slower than we thought, or faster, what would that mean?
Click to expand...
I was trying to figure out why Liberty German did not take any photos or videos(that we know of) at platforms 4, 5, or 6.

I think it could possibly be because there was someone in the way of Liberty German's photo shot. She might have been waiting for someone to get out of the way of her shot until they were going the opposite direction behind Abby or did not feel comfortable pulling out the phone camera until they were going the other direction away from them. Abby and Libby might have been cautiously waiting while this person approached and passed them on the bridge.

What might it mean? If Richard Allen approached the girls from the northwest side of the bridge it would make sense that later, he would leave going the same direction back to his car. That does make sense when you consider where his car was parked.

But if someone approached from the southeast side of the bridge they might have entered from that direction and left the same way.
 
somequestions said:
I was trying to figure out why Liberty German did not take any photos or videos(that we know of) at platforms 4, 5, or 6.

I think it could possibly be because there was someone in the way of Liberty German's photo shot. She might have been waiting for someone to get out of the way of her shot until they were going the opposite direction behind Abby or did not feel comfortable pulling out the phone camera until they were going the other direction away from them. Abby and Libby might have been cautiously waiting while this person approached and passed them on the bridge.

What might it mean? If Richard Allen approached the girls from the northwest side of the bridge it would make sense that later, he would leave going the same direction back to his car. That does make sense when you consider where his car was parked.

But if someone approached from the southeast side of the bridge they might have entered from that direction and left the same way.
Click to expand...
There may have been photos. Not known of what set of shots the bridge photos were seperated from.

Not sure what this means, are you looking for an altenative theory to the man that Libby captured on video coming at them is not the man who killed them?
 
Salah11 said:
I believe if there was a connection, Ricky would have thrown him under the bus to get some leverage.

He confessed so many times, and he never once mentioned somebody else was involved.

IMO
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with your train of thought. You may very well be spot on.

Another reason I still have this itch is because killer richard allen was reported to have asked if his family was ok. Could be several reasons for his concern.

However, at that time is when the infamous defense tried to say allen was in fear for his family because of the guards. (That is pure bull) I always thought if allen had fear it was because of KAK and his daddy. Daddy has a record of violence.

The investigation got heated during the Wabash search, all tips gone over again and that is when the missed tip was discovered. If any of KAK and company had reason to fear it would have been then for certain. little ricky may have been told to keep his mouth shut or else.

And we know little ricky only beats up on little girls. I noticed how small, quiet, and pathetic little ricky looks when at the bar and playing pool. Men around.
 
Willow Knight said:
All my opinion.

I don't think KAK is BG. Not sure if any others are thinking that, never got that impression.

I do think it is possible child killer richard allen may have had contact with KAK.

It's also feasible child killer richard allen knew of Abby and Libby's plan to be on the trails because of KAK's filthy catfishing account.

richard allen was in Peru that morning! So was KAK's cell phone.

Not sure we will ever know if KAK was aware of allen's plans, I feel LE suspected but never had the evidence to connect KAK with allen.

allen drove to Peru that morning, then drove back home and gathered his kill kit.

Justice for Libby and Abby!!!! These two girls put a child killer away for life. They also help put a filthy child predator away.
Click to expand...
TK (KK’s father) may have been the one doing the catfishing in this case. TK was closer in age to RA & they may have known each other from long ago.

JMO
 
somequestions said:
I was trying to figure out why Liberty German did not take any photos or videos(that we know of) at platforms 4, 5, or 6.

I think it could possibly be because there was someone in the way of Liberty German's photo shot. She might have been waiting for someone to get out of the way of her shot until they were going the opposite direction behind Abby or did not feel comfortable pulling out the phone camera until they were going the other direction away from them. Abby and Libby might have been cautiously waiting while this person approached and passed them on the bridge.

What might it mean? If Richard Allen approached the girls from the northwest side of the bridge it would make sense that later, he would leave going the same direction back to his car. That does make sense when you consider where his car was parked.

But if someone approached from the southeast side of the bridge they might have entered from that direction and left the same way.
Click to expand...
Do you think they could have made it from the Mears parking area to the end of the bridge in 20 minutes?
 
Cecil's step counter doesn't work for me. I don't understand the GPS geolocating near the school. The 1:31 timeframe definitely doesn't work. I added the feet (in red) based on the meters traveled. Then I enlarged Google maps to measure the feet from the Mears parking to the end of the bridge. From the end of the bridge, down the hill, etc is the estimate of the oft stated one fourth of a mile. All the footage is close. The times just don't work, nor does the two floor elevation change. No steps are recorded from 2:08 to 2:25 and nothing at all is recorded between 2:18 and 2:25.

Cecil Report on Steps

3 Day Hearing - Google Drive

drive.google.com drive.google.com
(snips from the report)
Q So the video starts on February 13th, 2017, at 1413:51 or 2:13:51 p.m.
Q And was there a location or GPS location associated with that video?
A So when the video initially starts, the GPS geolocates kind of over near the
Delphi High School, but then, within a matter of seconds, it comes back to the
Monon Trail, that’s where it goes.
So the phone stops moving same date, February 13th, 2017, at 1432:39.
Q So 2:32 p.m.?
A Correct.

1:31 pm – 2:08 pm – 1,682 steps (707.34 meters) 2,320'
2:08 pm – 2:18 pm – 414.38 meters 1,359' (NO Steps from 2:08 to 2:25)
2:25 pm – 2:32 pm – 66 steps (50.64 meters) 166'
2:31 pm – two-floor elevation change
 
Boxer said:
There may have been photos. Not known of what set of shots the bridge photos were seperated from.

Not sure what this means, are you looking for an altenative theory to the man that Libby captured on video coming at them is not the man who killed them?
Click to expand...
Yes, I am trying to confirm that bridge guy Richard Allen approached Abby and Libby from the northwest side of the bridge, but I will not ever be able to.

It is possible that maybe after BB saw Richard Allen standing on platform 1 Richard Allen then walked to the southeast side of the bridge and off down the hill. Then Libby takes the 2:05pm picture of the entire bridge looking southeast with no one on it. Richard Allen is below looking up at the bridge for anyone crossing it and sees Abby and Libby.

The problem with that theory is if the reason Richard Allen came to the Monon High Bridge that day was to lay in wait for some victims on the Monon High Bridge and not be seen, would he really stop on platform 1 for a few minutes to look at fish?????
 
mrjitty said:
The point is, say you had a suspect who was verified to be at the Bridge at the right time, had lied about his alibi, and was catfishing the victim - that would raise a real possibility that he was the real offender - so then the state would have to establish why that was not the case at trial.

You've gone beyond a mere speculative theory to real evidence that suggests guilt. There is of course the possibility that LE might have cleared the suspect - and they would have to show that at trial.

Those who followed the McStay trial saw this exact dynamic. The defence was allowed to argue a business partner was the real killer, and the state demonstrated the alt suspect could not be the killer because he was in a different state at the time.

IMO the KAK example is a good example of a decision that could go either way. He is linked via criminal / sexual offences to the victim. He made a 'confession' that places him at the scene, and he tips in "the real killer". On the other hand, digital evidence suggests he was at home at the time.

IMO KAK likely would have been allowed if the defence had enthusiastically pursued it. But it was an afterthought for them because KAK is clearly not BG and no jury would ever believe it over RA ....

IMO
Click to expand...
I think the biggest problem for the D with even thinking about calling KAK was because he lied too many times, to too many people. JMO
 
FrostedGlass said:
Cecil's step counter doesn't work for me. I don't understand the GPS geolocating near the school. The 1:31 timeframe definitely doesn't work. I added the feet (in red) based on the meters traveled. Then I enlarged Google maps to measure the feet from the Mears parking to the end of the bridge. From the end of the bridge, down the hill, etc is the estimate of the oft stated one fourth of a mile. All the footage is close. The times just don't work, nor does the two floor elevation change. No steps are recorded from 2:08 to 2:25 and nothing at all is recorded between 2:18 and 2:25.

Cecil Report on Steps

3 Day Hearing - Google Drive

drive.google.com drive.google.com
(snips from the report)
Q So the video starts on February 13th, 2017, at 1413:51 or 2:13:51 p.m.
Q And was there a location or GPS location associated with that video?
A So when the video initially starts, the GPS geolocates kind of over near the
Delphi High School, but then, within a matter of seconds, it comes back to the
Monon Trail, that’s where it goes.
So the phone stops moving same date, February 13th, 2017, at 1432:39.
Q So 2:32 p.m.?
A Correct.

1:31 pm – 2:08 pm – 1,682 steps (707.34 meters) 2,320'
2:08 pm – 2:18 pm – 414.38 meters 1,359' (NO Steps from 2:08 to 2:25)
2:25 pm – 2:32 pm – 66 steps (50.64 meters) 166'
2:31 pm – two-floor elevation change
Click to expand...
By 2:08, Libby probably crossed the bridge, we see her waiting for Abby, right up until they are ordered down the hill. Steps are recorded based on movement.

Between 2:08 and 2:18 she probably slipped and slid down the hill, movement was quite possibly very stilted, unsettling to think what movements were forced upon her, we know she was forced to undress which means her phone was recording no movement. It was likely in her jeans pocket or shoe. Not moving.

Before being carried 166'.

That step data confirms what the evidence shows.

JMO
 
FrostedGlass said:
Do you think they could have made it from the Mears parking area to the end of the bridge in 20 minutes?
Click to expand...
According to the videos I have seen, yes I think Abby and Libby could have made it from the Mears parking lot to the end of the bridge southeast side in 20 minutes. I think if you include the time it takes to walk from Mears parking lot to the bridge (about 5 minutes) and the time it took Abby and Libby to cross the Monon High Bridge (about 9 minutes), it could be done in 14 minutes total.

It is also possible Richard Allen could have stepped onto the bridge from the northwest side at any time from 2:07 to 2:10 and walked across in time to catch up to Abby and Libby by the time the bridge guy video is taken by Liberty German. But Abby and Libby would have to be unconcerned about his presence behind them until right up at the end when Liberty German starts the video as their pace has to remain the same.

If we go by the 2:05pm picture as the start time and the 2:13:52 video timestamp as the end time, then it would have taken Abby and Libby about 9 minutes to cross the Monon High Bridge. Even if they were already halfway across, based off bridge guy's pace, Richard Allen would have been able to catch up to them based on his pace in the bridge guy video taken by Liberty German.

It would help to have the actual timestamps of the pictures taken by Liberty German. The 2:05 and 2:07pm are the Snapchat post times, not the actual timestamps of the pictures taken earlier than when they were posted.
 
somequestions said:
The problem with that theory is if the reason Richard Allen came to the Monon High Bridge that day was to lay in wait for some victims on the Monon High Bridge and not be seen, would he really stop on platform 1 for a few minutes to look at fish?????
Click to expand...

IMO this story of RA being on the bridge to look at fish is the biggest “fish tale” of all.

That’s the excuse he provided to explain his presence on the bridge. That and checking his stock ticker.

No one else could confirm it because the fish aren’t talking and no other human being witnessed such an event.

Similar to Bryan Kohberger stating that he drove around the murder scene at 4 am to “gaze at the stars.”

“Alibi” literally means “at another place.”

He was not at “another place,” as RA himself admitted to being on the bridge that day.

When your only “witnesses” are mute and cannot attest to your alibi, your alibi is worthless, so you make up stories.



JMO
 
somequestions said:
Yes, I am trying to confirm that bridge guy Richard Allen approached Abby and Libby from the northwest side of the bridge, but I will not ever be able to.

It is possible that maybe after BB saw Richard Allen standing on platform 1 Richard Allen then walked to the southeast side of the bridge and off down the hill. Then Libby takes the 2:05pm picture of the entire bridge looking southeast with no one on it. Richard Allen is below looking up at the bridge for anyone crossing it and sees Abby and Libby.

The problem with that theory is if the reason Richard Allen came to the Monon High Bridge that day was to lay in wait for some victims on the Monon High Bridge and not be seen, would he really stop on platform 1 for a few minutes to look at fish?????
Click to expand...
He says he was looking at fish. Platform 1 also offers views of what you can and cant see from the bridge.

If he crossed the bridge south from Platform 1, then waited off the bridge as they got near to the the south embankment got on the bridge passed them, turned around he could have the charged them from there.

But the only witnesses who could confirm this are dead,
 
Last edited:
Megnut said:
By 2:08, Libby probably crossed the bridge, we see her waiting for Abby, right up until they are ordered down the hill. Steps are recorded based on movement.

Between 2:08 and 2:18 she probably slipped and slid down the hill, movement was quite possibly very stilted, unsettling to think what movements were forced upon her, we know she was forced to undress which means her phone was recording no movement. It was likely in her jeans pocket or shoe. Not moving.

Before being carried 166'.

That step data confirms what the evidence shows.

JMO
Click to expand...
All of these meters happened before Brad Weber arrived.
2:08 pm – 2:18 pm – 414.38 meters 1,359' (NO Steps from 2:08 to 2:25)
Also, there is nothing at all recorded between 2:18 and 2:25.

Brad passed through at 2:30 during this time frame, which I think is possibly the creek crossing, up the embankment and to the murder site. Except there is nowhere that I've seen in all the videos I've watched that has a 20' elevation in that area. I doubt that Libby was carried 166'.
2:25 pm – 2:32 pm – 66 steps (50.64 meters) 166'
2:31 pm – two-floor elevation change
 
FrostedGlass said:
All of these meters happened before Brad Weber arrived.
2:08 pm – 2:18 pm – 414.38 meters 1,359' (NO Steps from 2:08 to 2:25)
Also, there is nothing at all recorded between 2:18 and 2:25.

Brad passed through at 2:30 during this time frame, which I think is possibly the creek crossing, up the embankment and to the murder site. Except there is nowhere that I've seen in all the videos I've watched that has a 20' elevation in that area. I doubt that Libby was carried 166'.
2:25 pm – 2:32 pm – 66 steps (50.64 meters) 166'
2:31 pm – two-floor elevation change
Click to expand...
The  phone was carried 166'. (Or it was counting Abby's steps, once she was redressed, in Libby's pants.)

2:18 to 2:25 was the core time frame of the abduction. Two little girls alone with someone intent on SA, who forced them to undress. That is 7 loooooooooong minutes. The phone probably under a pile of little girl clothes.

The phone didn't move.

It makes me ill to think about that.

JMO
 
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