GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #220

[Warwick7]

Sorry. Not trying to take credit. Just something I noticed. I haven't been on here much since the verdict.

No no no...I'm sorry I didn't mean it like that. I should have worded that differently. Sorry...

 

[INfisherman]

Between 12pm and around 2:15pm when BB is seen leaving driving by the HHS surveillance camera in her SUV, how many other sedans and SUVs were seen driving down 300 N on the HHS surveillance camera?

Do any of the exhibits show how many others there were? Since the long way to get to Mears parking lot probably is not known by many people, I thought there would be a good chance the HHS surveillance camera might show other sedans and SUVs that may have potentially parked at the Mears parking lot.

If you haven’t, you might want to take a close look at the exhibits which have been released from that camera. They are very telling if you look closely & compare to a map, especially what you see in the background of some of the footage which isn’t magnified (zoomed).

Sorry to say but Mears entrance is not visible from that HHS camera - mounted on west side of HHS & north of the HHS parking area which sticks out on the west side of the building, looking to the SW just shy of the first house west of HHS on the south side of 300N. Without corroborating evidence (eyewitnesses, timelines, vehicle makes & models) any vehicles on that particular camera footage are just passing traffic.

 

[shonyakay]

It really was luck.

According to Richard Allen's story during his first interrogation, he went to the Monon High Bridge, was on platform 1 to look at fish, then walked back to the intersection of the 501 and 505 trail and sat on the bench that overlooks the creek facing away from the trail. Then he says it could have been as late as around 1:45pm when he left.

When you listen to the interrogation, when he says "he left", I think he means when he got up from the bench at the 505 overlooking the creek to walk back down the trail to leave. According to Richard Allen, he turns around at that bench and sees a sedan and SUV in the Mears parking lot.

But could he have seen Liberty German's older sister's car? Is that the sedan he is referring to? I am not referring to the older sister having anything to do with the crime. I do not think that at all. What I want to know is did police every figure out who the driver of the sedan was?

He was very lucky to come up with the story he did because as people have pointed out he actually referenced the type of vehicles he saw in the Mears parking lot that day.

"He walked from the Freedom Bridge to the High Bridge. He did not see anybody, although he stated he was watching a stock ticker on his phone as he walked. He stated there were vehicles parked at the High Bridge trail head, however did not pay attention to them."
- Dan Dulin's Tip Narrative / February 18, 2017

I wonder if RA used the lie about looking at his phone because that is the timeframe (His walk from the Freedom Bridge trailhead to the High Bridge) when he witnessed certain cars and possibly females arriving at the trails through the Mears' entrance.

In the October 13, 2022 interview RA mentions to Mullin and Liggett that he might have seen someone by the Mears' entrance. Did he see BB? Did he see two teen girls' (Libby and Abby) being dropped off?
Did RA head straight to the High Bridge to wait for BB or the girls'?

RA also stated at one point that he thought the girls' he saw near Freedom Bridge could possibly have come from the cars' parked at the Mears' entrance. Was RA hoping that those girls' would return to the bridge?

According to BB, RA looked towards her when she walked toward the High Bridge. To her he appeared to be waitng for someone. She said it didn't seem like he was waiting for her. She mentioned his posture as indicating this.

 

[shonyakay]

"He walked from the Freedom Bridge to the High Bridge. He did not see anybody, although he stated he was watching a stock ticker on his phone as he walked. He stated there were vehicles parked at the High Bridge trail head, however did not pay attention to them."
- Dan Dulin's Tip Narrative / February 18, 2017

I wonder if RA used the lie about looking at his phone because that is the timeframe (His walk from the Freedom Bridge trailhead to the High Bridge) when he witnessed certain cars and possibly females arriving at the trails through the Mears' entrance.

In the October 13, 2022 interview RA mentions to Mullin and Liggett that he might have seen someone by the Mears' entrance. Did he see BB? Did he see two teen girls' (Libby and Abby) being dropped off?
Did RA head straight to the High Bridge to wait for BB or the girls'?

RA also stated at one point that he thought the girls' he saw near Freedom Bridge could possibly have come from the cars' parked at the Mears' entrance. Was RA hoping that those girls' would return to the bridge?

According to BB, RA looked towards her when she walked toward the High Bridge. To her he appeared to be waitng for someone. She said it didn't seem like he was waiting for her. She mentioned his posture as indicating this.

I want to elaborate further.

In the October 13, 2022 interview RA states,

"I'm assuming they (The girls' near Freedom Bridge trailhead) were leaving or they came from down where those cars parked and they were going to go back that way. I don't know."

Also...

"Like I told him (Dulin), I may have seen, there may have been somebody on the bridge or something when I was coming back through."

Also...

"The only ones that I really notice seeing were the.. was the three girls' as I was walking towards them and I mean 'cause they obviously stood out."

Also...

"I don't really remember seeing anybody that day but I don't know I... So if I did see somebody else they didn't jump out to me or anything else. I don't... like I said... could have been people down around the cars but I don't remember. I just remember seeing a couple of cars parked over there like a sedan and uh SUV or something like that."


Very Interesting.

 

[iamshadow21]

I want to elaborate further.

In the October 13, 2022 interview RA states,

"I'm assuming they (The girls' near Freedom Bridge trailhead) were leaving or they came from down where those cars parked and they were going to go back that way. I don't know."

Also...

"Like I told him (Dulin), I may have seen, there may have been somebody on the bridge or something when I was coming back through."

Also...

"The only ones that I really notice seeing were the.. was the three girls' as I was walking towards them and I mean 'cause they obviously stood out."

Also...

"I don't really remember seeing anybody that day but I don't know I... So if I did see somebody else they didn't jump out to me or anything else. I don't... like I said... could have been people down around the cars but I don't remember. I just remember seeing a couple of cars parked over there like a sedan and uh SUV or something like that."


Very Interesting.

'Cause they obviously stood out'????

Ugh.

*shudders*

They stood out because he was looking for prey of about their age, but their group was too large for him to feel confident he could control them.

MOO

 

[shonyakay]

'Cause they obviously stood out'????

Ugh.

*shudders*

They stood out because he was looking for prey of about their age, but their group was too large for him to feel confident he could control them.

MOO

Agree. Considering what he stated it's a possibility that he seen Abby and Libby being dropped off.
This might be why he looked towards BB when she reached the High Bridge but acted as though she was not the one(s) he was looking for.

 

[FromGermany1]

If RA waited for someone to arrive at the area and BB was sure, it wasn't her, then maybe he waited for Abby/Libby. Did he know, that they would arrive with a car? Did he know, that the other girls (witnesses) had arrived by foot?

 

[snooptroop88]

Have any other sexual assaults or murders in the area been linked to Allen yet?

This is a picture of a possible (in my mind probable) homicide victim, Jorden Sopher, who disappeared after last being seen in Wabash May 2006:

To me, this girl looks very much like Libby. I noticed that that a Sun article says the remains, discovered three years later near a creek in Miami County/near Peru IN, were discovered by mushroom hunters.

Mushroom hunting was a noted recreational activity of Richard Allen-- per Richard Allen, as he attempted to explain those evidently very rare occasions when he carried his firearm. I believe he said he carried his gun when fishing (my recollection is he at some point specified night fishing) or mushroom hunting. Jorden's remains were scattered along the creek in dense brush, they estimate she'd been there since around the time of her disappearance. Authorities have been unable to determine Jorden's cause of death because of the deterioration of her remains.

Jorden Aryne Sopher – The Charley Project

 

[Caylee Advocate]

 

[TristanP]

It’s fine - you don’t need to believe there was a connection. I think there might have been. I’ve been wrong before & will be again, I’m sure.

Such an irony that people who literally have been thoroughly investigated and had no connections found are still suspected of being part of this, while the investigation of RA has large inconsistencies and holes in it and no one doubts his guilt.

 

[shonyakay]

Such an irony that people who literally have been thoroughly investigated and had no connections found are still suspected of being part of this, while the investigation of RA has large inconsistencies and holes in it and no one doubts his guilt.

Because there are no large inconsistencies or holes. If you could elaborate that would be great.

 

[INfisherman]

Such an irony that people who literally have been thoroughly investigated and had no connections found are still suspected of being part of this, while the investigation of RA has large inconsistencies and holes in it and no one doubts his guilt.

Just as ironic as RA giving LE 3 different times he was present at the trails, confessing over 60 times yet claiming he didn’t do it, or his own wife not being sure if he told her he was on the bridge or not during interview #1 in 2022, I suppose. I’m not sure what inconsistencies or holes you’re referring to regarding the investigation without examples & there are plenty of doubters concerning RA’s guilt. Probably not much different than other cases with little forensic but lots of circumstantial evidence.

JMO

 

[snooptroop88]

Such an irony that people who literally have been thoroughly investigated and had no connections found are still suspected of being part of this, while the investigation of RA has large inconsistencies and holes in it and no one doubts his guilt.

Totally agree that people sometimes become the target of investigations and arguably have no connection. I agree on this. And it's beyond unfortunate if those individuals indeed have no connection.

But I agree on this as well:

Because there are no large inconsistencies or holes. If you could elaborate that would be great.

Just as ironic as RA giving LE 3 different times he was present at the trails, confessing over 60 times yet claiming he didn’t do it, or his own wife not being sure if he told her he was on the bridge or not during interview #1 in 2022, I suppose. I’m not sure what inconsistencies or holes you’re referring to regarding the investigation without examples & there are plenty of doubters concerning RA’s guilt. Probably not much different than other cases with little forensic but lots of circumstantial evidence.

JMO

How many times did Richard Allen have to tell people he did it-- for people to believe it? I understand there's no DNA. But in light of the totality of the evidence, even I'm positive he's guilty, and I tend to shy away from even considering a guilty verdict in cases with no DNA evidence. I also still don't view his confessions as dispositive evidence of his guilt. I've just gotten a load of Richard Allen over the past years, and I now am positive he's guilty, and it's based on a totality of the evidence, that yes, does include the confessions, but the confessions were not the be-all-and-end-all of it for me by a long shot. Looking at the bigger picture-- including the confessions-- I see exactly how a jury found him guilty. Now, he's convicted, There's no more confusion, and I think he may have commited other crimes.

He may not have committed them alone. Whether Richard Allen was indeed a lone wolf-- that's actually not completely a given for me as of yet. He could have been. But he might not have been. I don't view that incomplete aspect as a "hole" or "inconsistency." Richard Allen's guilt is-- Richard Allen's guilt. Simply because others may have some level of involvement as of yet unknown-- their involvement or lack thereof in no way would absolve Richard Allen of his guilt. I'm positive he's guilty, and so's the jury that convicted him, and so are many, many posters on here. And his conviction's a reality.

That's it. And jmo, there's not a prayer of that conviction ever being overturned, and they have the right man. I've already shifted my focus as to whether someone that stalked a couple of kids out on a trail and murdered them in cold blood... and who offered at one point to apologize to the victims' families before flip-flopping into an end point of him ultimately rolling his eyes during sentencing... I'm wondering who else he killed. Did he kill anyone else?

My guess: Probably.

 

[shonyakay]

Totally agree that people sometimes become the target of investigations and arguably have no connection. I agree on this. And it's beyond unfortunate if those individuals indeed have no connection.

But I agree on this as well:


How many times did Richard Allen have to tell people he did it-- for people to believe it? I understand there's no DNA. But in light of the totality of the evidence, even I'm positive he's guilty, and I tend to shy away from even considering a guilty verdict in cases with no DNA evidence. I also still don't view his confessions as dispositive evidence of his guilt. I've just gotten a load of Richard Allen over the past years, and I now am positive he's guilty, and it's based on a totality of the evidence, that yes, does include the confessions, but the confessions were not the be-all-and-end-all of it for me by a long shot. Looking at the bigger picture-- including the confessions-- I see exactly how a jury found him guilty. Now, he's convicted, There's no more confusion, and I think he may have commited other crimes.

He may not have committed them alone. Whether Richard Allen was indeed a lone wolf-- that's actually not completely a given for me as of yet. He could have been. But he might not have been. I don't view that incomplete aspect as a "hole" or "inconsistency." Richard Allen's guilt is-- Richard Allen's guilt. Simply because others may have some level of involvement as of yet unknown-- their involvement or lack thereof in no way would absolve Richard Allen of his guilt. I'm positive he's guilty, and so's the jury that convicted him, and so are many, many posters on here. And his conviction's a reality.

That's it. And jmo, there's not a prayer of that conviction ever being overturned, and they have the right man. I've already shifted my focus as to whether someone that stalked a couple of kids out on a trail and murdered them in cold blood... and who offered at one point to apologize to the victims' families before flip-flopping into an end point of him ultimately rolling his eyes during sentencing... I'm wondering who else he killed. Did he kill anyone else?

My guess: Probably.

Great post Snoop.

Not sure if you are aware of this but the Allen's lived on 2nd Street in Peru at some point before they moved to Delphi in 2006. This was revealed when Vido was on the stand at the motion in limine hearing last summer.

 

[shonyakay]

I have often thought "Bridge Guy's" right hand was placed too high to be in his pocket like his left hand is.



On Oct. 26, 2022 Holeman asked RA if he had a holster for his gun. He said he does "a side holster" as he demonstrated with his right hand where it would be located.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I have often thought "Bridge Guy's" right hand was placed too high to be in his pocket like his left hand is.

View attachment 585381

On Oct. 26, 2022 Holeman asked RA if he had a holster for his gun. He said he does "a side holster" as he demonstrated with his right hand where it would be located.

View attachment 585382

Nice find!

 

[Megnut]

I have often thought "Bridge Guy's" right hand was placed too high to be in his pocket like his left hand is.

View attachment 585381

On Oct. 26, 2022 Holeman asked RA if he had a holster for his gun. He said he does "a side holster" as he demonstrated with his right hand where it would be located.

View attachment 585382

Stunning.

The lean, the chin tilt, position of both arms, all but confirming RA was calculating the moment he would draw his fire arm.

And it adds to the confusing scene the girls were trying to make sense of. He wasn't chasing them, he wasn't barking orders.... he comes upon them fast, but they didn't know why, then he says GDTH, almost conversationally, draws a weapon with the same casual ease he might have a vape or a cellphone out of his pocket. Before they could take any or all of that in and react, he had a gun drawn on them.

Wicked man.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Stunning.

The lean, the chin tilt, position of both arms, all but confirming RA was calculating the moment he would draw his fire arm.

And it adds to the confusing scene the girls were trying to make sense of. He wasn't chasing them, he wasn't barking orders.... he comes upon them fast, but they didn't know why, then he says GDTH, almost conversationally, draws a weapon with the same casual ease he might have a vape or a cellphone out of his pocket. Before they could take any or all of that in and react, he had a gun drawn on them.

Wicked man.

JMO

Always - RA=BG=Killer was tried and convicted by a jury of his peers. I hope his days in prison are as miserable as he made Abby and Libby's last moments in life and the misery he caused to their families. Their children are gone forever.

There will always be conspiracy theorists and Pro Allens who will find something, anything to hang on to.

I'm more relieved a child murderer is off the streets and that Abby, Libby and their families finally found some form of Justice, although sadly those young, bright, innocent girls are gone and RA lives on.

JMO

 

[TristanP]

Totally agree that people sometimes become the target of investigations and arguably have no connection. I agree on this. And it's beyond unfortunate if those individuals indeed have no connection.

But I agree on this as well:


How many times did Richard Allen have to tell people he did it-- for people to believe it? I understand there's no DNA. But in light of the totality of the evidence, even I'm positive he's guilty, and I tend to shy away from even considering a guilty verdict in cases with no DNA evidence. I also still don't view his confessions as dispositive evidence of his guilt. I've just gotten a load of Richard Allen over the past years, and I now am positive he's guilty, and it's based on a totality of the evidence, that yes, does include the confessions, but the confessions were not the be-all-and-end-all of it for me by a long shot. Looking at the bigger picture-- including the confessions-- I see exactly how a jury found him guilty. Now, he's convicted, There's no more confusion, and I think he may have commited other crimes.

He may not have committed them alone. Whether Richard Allen was indeed a lone wolf-- that's actually not completely a given for me as of yet. He could have been. But he might not have been. I don't view that incomplete aspect as a "hole" or "inconsistency." Richard Allen's guilt is-- Richard Allen's guilt. Simply because others may have some level of involvement as of yet unknown-- their involvement or lack thereof in no way would absolve Richard Allen of his guilt. I'm positive he's guilty, and so's the jury that convicted him, and so are many, many posters on here. And his conviction's a reality.

That's it. And jmo, there's not a prayer of that conviction ever being overturned, and they have the right man. I've already shifted my focus as to whether someone that stalked a couple of kids out on a trail and murdered them in cold blood... and who offered at one point to apologize to the victims' families before flip-flopping into an end point of him ultimately rolling his eyes during sentencing... I'm wondering who else he killed. Did he kill anyone else?

My guess: Probably.

His confessions are meaningless to me. I work in mental health and deal with psychotic patients all the time. Had one the other day that said they were a pregnant mermaid. Had another who insisted they were an agent with Homeland Security.

He was off his normal meds, housed in terrible conditions, surrounded by people constantly telling him he was a murderer, a baby killer, he deserved to die. Then he got assigned a mental health professional who had interest in the case. Conflict of interest,

 

[vls12345]

I have often thought "Bridge Guy's" right hand was placed too high to be in his pocket like his left hand is.

View attachment 585381

On Oct. 26, 2022 Holeman asked RA if he had a holster for his gun. He said he does "a side holster" as he demonstrated with his right hand where it would be located.

View attachment 585382

Great observation.