GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #220

[INfisherman]

MOO if your argument is so convoluted it cannot be parsed down to 24 thousand words you may be in trouble

Let them back in tractor trailers full of briefings, straight from Andy’s delusional fantasies - if he can spare the all-important family time & has recovered from his assured writer’s cramp after filing his 50+ page complaint against NM.

Evidently Andy couldn’t argue the facts, so he made up his own. Ready for this to get some traction & see what this team tries to raise. Something tells me it’s probably not going to impress many people other than the "critical thinkers".

MOO

 

[shonyakay]

Was RA indirectly blaming the "weird" girls for the murders, of course without revealing himself? Did he think, when his wife would learn of the murders, she would suspect the "weird/odd" girls, one even with "black" hair (like a witch??) and would tell others? Then the first distraction would already be in place; how convenient for him, the evil double murderer.

I have always believed (since the crime scene illustrations were shown from those attending the trial) that the branches and sticks were placed on the girls in a way to conceal the girls from across the creek. While discussing this case elsewhere the other day someone replied to me (who said she was a witch) saying that the sticks meant something. Well what you mentioned about the girl with black hair/witch popped into my head and just for the heck of it I Googled "witch sticks". The first thing that popped up was the sticks formation from the movie, "The Blair Witch Project". There was a Blair Witch movie called, "Blair Witch", that came out in late 2016. When you look at LE's illustration of the sticks at the base of the girls that was on top of Libby's blood, I think the stick formation looks kind of similar. Someone told me they thought they looked nothing like it though.

I just thought it was interesting that Richard Allen mentioned to his wife (which she said was not like him) that the girl with the long black hair and the girls she was with were "weird" so he decided to leave.
That got me thinking did Richard Allen arrange some of the sticks at the crime scene in a way to make it look ritualistic like a witch had committed this crime? Did he try to set up the girl with the black hair (RV) who could possibly identify him?

He mentioned this black haired girl and the two other girls to Officer Dan Dulin as well.

 

[shonyakay]

I have always believed (since the crime scene illustrations were shown from those attending the trial) that the branches and sticks were placed on the girls in a way to conceal the girls from across the creek. While discussing this case elsewhere the other day someone replied to me (who said she was a witch) saying that the sticks meant something. Well what you mentioned about the girl with black hair/witch popped into my head and just for the heck of it I Googled "witch sticks". The first thing that popped up was the sticks formation from the movie, "The Blair Witch Project". There was a Blair Witch movie called, "Blair Witch", that came out in late 2016. When you look at LE's illustration of the sticks at the base of the girls that was on top of Libby's blood, I think the stick formation looks kind of similar. Someone told me they thought they looked nothing like it though.

I just thought it was interesting that Richard Allen mentioned to his wife (which she said was not like him) that the girl with the long black hair and the girls she was with were "weird" so he decided to leave.
That got me thinking did Richard Allen arrange some of the sticks at the crime scene in a way to make it look ritualistic like a witch had committed this crime? Did he try to set up the girl with the black hair (RV) who could possibly identify him?

He mentioned this black haired girl and the two other girls to Officer Dan Dulin as well.
View attachment 629436View attachment 629437

Sorry guys if this post of mine offended anyone. I would never want to dishonor Libby and Abby in anyway.

I also apologize if this post seemed off the wall. Remember me mentioning "Twilight Zone" related discussions elsewhere? Yeah, this would fall into that category.

The reason I thought this could be something is because we know that there was definitely talk of "signatures" left at the crime scene in the very early days of the investigation. We know RA mentioned three girls to his wife that he said were "weird" and that one had long black hair. RA mentioned three girls in his self-reported tip on February 16, 2017. RA mentioned three girls, one with long black hair to Dan Dulin on February 18, 2017. RA talked about the three girls to Mullin and Liggett on October 13, 2022 and said that they "obviously stood out." Another thing to consider is his attorney's (especially Baldwin) have made so much noise about the sticks and there placement. It makes me wonder if RA mentioned to him that he manipulated some of the sticks in a way to try to throw off LE. Also, at trial, RA shook his head when a witness mentioned the sticks being for concealment. Although I realize that he was probably coached by his attorney's to do this.

Back when the girls were first discovered, it is reasonable to see why the investigators were confused by the placement of the sticks because they had no idea at the time that Richard Allen had seen Brad Weber driving his van on the road to his house.
As you can see the biggest branches go down the left sides of the girls' bodies.

From my understanding, the creek is to the right of the huge tree by Libby. At least that is where the people who attended the trial placed the creek in their illustrations of it during the trial.

Having researched where that big "V" shaped tree by Libby actually is, it appears the creek would be just below their bodies and then travel around to the right of that tree. People standing at the edge of the opposite side of the creek wouldn't be able to see them because on the side of the creek they were found it was substantially elevated from that vantage point. From the vantage point of Brad Weber's driveway the girls left sides of their bodies would be lying catty-cornered and would mostly be hidden by the huge tree to the right of Libby. The long branch that was placed on Libby's left arm that ran from the top of her head to well below the bottom of her feet would also be concealing both girls from Weber's driveway.

I haven't seen an actual up-close picture of the sticks at the base of the girls but looking at one picture from afar it doesn't really appear like the small bottom right stick forms a complete X. It looks like it terminates when it touches the other small stick to the left. Having looked at LE's diagram again (above) it also appears to terminate at the same spot. So who knows? Someone just got me thinking about the sticks at the base of the girls laying on the blood when someone asked what those particular sticks meant since they didn't appear to have been placed for concealment. The only thing I could think of at the time is that RA had gathered a piles of sticks in that area to place on the girls and those few were just left overs.

So, I will end this post by saying that I believe that the purpose of all of the sticks that RA placed ON the girls were for concealment. I think the main reason he concealed them the way he did was just to buy him time to get back to his car at the CPS building and out of the immediate area before someone could discover what he had done to the girls. I think he wanted to make sure that no one driving on that road (which he may have not known was someone's private driveway) wouldn't be able to see the girls. Libby had very pale skin and she was completely nude.

I would really like to hear all of you guy's opinions on the stick placements at the crime scene.

 

[Boxer]

Sorry guys if this post of mine offended anyone. I would never want to dishonor Libby and Abby in anyway.

I also apologize if this post seemed off the wall. Remember me mentioning "Twilight Zone" related discussions elsewhere? Yeah, this would fall into that category.

The reason I thought this could be something is because we know that there was definitely talk of "signatures" left at the crime scene in the very early days of the investigation. We know RA mentioned three girls to his wife that he said were "weird" and that one had long black hair. RA mentioned three girls in his self-reported tip on February 16, 2017. RA mentioned three girls, one with long black hair to Dan Dulin on February 18, 2017. RA talked about the three girls to Mullin and Liggett on October 13, 2022 and said that they "obviously stood out." Another thing to consider is his attorney's (especially Baldwin) have made so much noise about the sticks and there placement. It makes me wonder if RA mentioned to him that he manipulated some of the sticks in a way to try to throw off LE. Also, at trial, RA shook his head when a witness mentioned the sticks being for concealment. Although I realize that he was probably coached by his attorney's to do this.

Back when the girls were first discovered, it is reasonable to see why the investigators were confused by the placement of the sticks because they had no idea at the time that Richard Allen had seen Brad Weber driving his van on the road to his house.
As you can see the biggest branches go down the left sides of the girls' bodies.

From my understanding, the creek is to the right of the huge tree by Libby. At least that is where the people who attended the trial placed the creek in their illustrations of it during the trial.

Having researched where that big "V" shaped tree by Libby actually is, it appears the creek would be just below their bodies and then travel around to the right of that tree. People standing at the edge of the opposite side of the creek wouldn't be able to see them because on the side of the creek they were found it was substantially elevated from that vantage point. From the vantage point of Brad Weber's driveway the girls left sides of their bodies would be lying catty-cornered and would mostly be hidden by the huge tree to the right of Libby. The long branch that was placed on Libby's left arm that ran from the top of her head to well below the bottom of her feet would also be concealing both girls from Weber's driveway.

I haven't seen an actual up-close picture of the sticks at the base of the girls but looking at one picture from afar it doesn't really appear like the small bottom right stick forms a complete X. It looks like it terminates when it touches the other small stick to the left. Having looked at LE's diagram again (above) it also appears to terminate at the same spot. So who knows? Someone just got me thinking about the sticks at the base of the girls laying on the blood when someone asked what those particular sticks meant since they didn't appear to have been placed for concealment. The only thing I could think of at the time is that RA had gathered a piles of sticks in that area to place on the girls and those few were just left overs.

So, I will end this post by saying that I believe that the purpose of all of the sticks that RA placed ON the girls were for concealment. I think the main reason he concealed them the way he did was just to buy him time to get back to his car at the CPS building and out of the immediate area before someone could discover what he had done to the girls. I think he wanted to make sure that no one driving on that road (which he may have not known was someone's private driveway) wouldn't be able to see the girls. Libby had very pale skin and she was completely nude.

I would really like to hear all of you guy's opinions on the stick placements at the crime scene.

Agree. From the beginning I have felt this crime was opportunistic in nature of akin to shoplifting.

A few well placed branches would conceal the bodies well enough for long enough from the vehicles at road level across the creek.

 

[dotr]

I have always believed (since the crime scene illustrations were shown from those attending the trial) that the branches and sticks were placed on the girls in a way to conceal the girls from across the creek. While discussing this case elsewhere the other day someone replied to me (who said she was a witch) saying that the sticks meant something. Well what you mentioned about the girl with black hair/witch popped into my head and just for the heck of it I Googled "witch sticks". The first thing that popped up was the sticks formation from the movie, "The Blair Witch Project". There was a Blair Witch movie called, "Blair Witch", that came out in late 2016. When you look at LE's illustration of the sticks at the base of the girls that was on top of Libby's blood, I think the stick formation looks kind of similar. Someone told me they thought they looked nothing like it though.

I just thought it was interesting that Richard Allen mentioned to his wife (which she said was not like him) that the girl with the long black hair and the girls she was with were "weird" so he decided to leave.
That got me thinking did Richard Allen arrange some of the sticks at the crime scene in a way to make it look ritualistic like a witch had committed this crime? Did he try to set up the girl with the black hair (RV) who could possibly identify him?

He mentioned this black haired girl and the two other girls to Officer Dan Dulin as well.
View attachment 629436View attachment 629437

Video discussion concerning the sticks.
Regarding witches and sticks - wondering if RA would have started a fire if he had enough time, ie witch burning.? speculation.

Nov 8, 2024 #Delphi #RichardAllen #Indiana
Deliberations in the trial of Richard Allen, the man accused of killing Abby Williams and Libby German in February 2017, are slated to continue in the divided town of Delphi, Indiana. NewsNation legal contributor Jesse Weber, author Susan Hendricks and “Drop Dead Serious” podcast producer Lindzie Haller discuss what the jury has seen and what the defense's limitations could mean for the trial.

 

[Boxer]

I thought it was the start of building up a pile of sticks for bonfire, but then he heard DG calling.
But RA works retail so he would know a few well placed branches would break up the visual so someone in passing vehicle would not recognize that they are seeing bodies across a creek.

 

[Megnut]

I thought it was the start of building up a pile of sticks for bonfire, but then he heard DG calling.
But RA works retail so he would know a few well placed branches would break up the visual so someone in passing vehicle would not recognize that they are seeing bodies across a creek.

I too thought maybe he was building a funeral pyre once upon a time.

But I'm satisfied he was building a screen, to hide them as best he could. I don't know, however, if he was done. He may indeed have been interrupted.

He also would have had to know that they would be found, just a matter of time.

I don't think he worried about being arrested. I think he felt unidentifiable and felt, as he was leaving, that he'd left no evidence behind.

IMO because he forced them to wash it off.

You don't take panties and a sock unless it's a sexually motivated crime. He had 10+ long minutes with two little girls, who he forced to undress, before forcing them into the icy creek.

Did he smoke a cigarette after? Wouldn't surprise me. At the creek, while forcing them into it.

Right before he murdered them and watched them slowly die.

Pure evil.

JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

Video discussion concerning the sticks.
Regarding witches and sticks - wondering if RA would have started a fire if he had enough time, ie witch burning.? speculation.

Nov 8, 2024 #Delphi #RichardAllen #Indiana
Deliberations in the trial of Richard Allen, the man accused of killing Abby Williams and Libby German in February 2017, are slated to continue in the divided town of Delphi, Indiana. NewsNation legal contributor Jesse Weber, author Susan Hendricks and “Drop Dead Serious” podcast producer Lindzie Haller discuss what the jury has seen and what the defense's limitations could mean for the trial.

When looking at this picture, I don't understand, why the sticks were placed like that, if they only should have hinder the view from someone on the opposite bank. To me it doesn't make sense at all. I think, the sticks were placed for another reason than only some "barricade". MOO

 

[Gemmie]

I too thought maybe he was building a funeral pyre once upon a time.

But I'm satisfied he was building a screen, to hide them as best he could. I don't know, however, if he was done. He may indeed have been interrupted.

He also would have had to know that they would be found, just a matter of time.

I don't think he worried about being arrested. I think he felt unidentifiable and felt, as he was leaving, that he'd left no evidence behind.

IMO because he forced them to wash it off.

You don't take panties and a sock unless it's a sexually motivated crime. He had 10+ long minutes with two little girls, who he forced to undress, before forcing them into the icy creek.

Did he smoke a cigarette after? Wouldn't surprise me. At the creek, while forcing them into it.

Right before he murdered them and watched them slowly die.

Pure evil.

JMO

Weren't some of the sticks under them? They looked more purposely placed on them, not thrown on them to hurriedly hide them. I can't imagine a killer taking the time to place the sticks when throwing them on and running off and gathering more would be more in line with how I imagine someone hiding bodies would do it. JMO!

 

[shonyakay]

Video discussion concerning the sticks.
Regarding witches and sticks - wondering if RA would have started a fire if he had enough time, ie witch burning.? speculation.

Nov 8, 2024 #Delphi #RichardAllen #Indiana
Deliberations in the trial of Richard Allen, the man accused of killing Abby Williams and Libby German in February 2017, are slated to continue in the divided town of Delphi, Indiana. NewsNation legal contributor Jesse Weber, author Susan Hendricks and “Drop Dead Serious” podcast producer Lindzie Haller discuss what the jury has seen and what the defense's limitations could mean for the trial.

Thanks. I think it is possible that it could be some form of undoing (like Holeman believes) along with concelament.

Also, someone somwhere opined that the sticks could have been placed on the girls necks to watch their breathing - i.e. to watch the sticks rise and fall - to make sure their breathing ceased. Evil.

CM testified at the trial that her and her friend SD walked across High Bridge and used the restroom at the very end of High Bridge, off to the right. These young ladies captured pictures of High Bridge from South to North on their way back and the time stamp on the pictures was within approximately 20 minutes of 4:00 p.m.
From the vantage point of the wooded crime scene area you could see portions of the area at the end of High Bridge through the trees. I wonder if RA decided to leave when he saw movement at the end of the bridge, thus interrupting what else he may have had planned.

No one else besides these two young women had walked all the way out to the end of High Bridge since Bridge Guy/Richard Allen ordered the girls down the hill at 2:14 p.m.

 

[shonyakay]

Weren't some of the sticks under them? They looked more purposely placed on them, not thrown on them to hurriedly hide them. I can't imagine a killer taking the time to place the sticks when throwing them on and running off and gathering more would be more in line with how I imagine someone hiding bodies would do it. JMO!

Not to my knowledge. Not any sizable sticks that I am aware of - just leaf litter and tiny sticks (more like twigs) under Abby and around her.

 

[Gemmie]

Not to my knowledge. Not any sizable sticks that I am aware of - just leaf litter and tiny sticks (more like twigs) under Abby and around her.

So the Frank's Memo has been 100% disregarded as having any factual info in it? Serious question as I haven't followed this thread like most of you. Because according to it, one of the sticks was longer than Abby's body. That's not leaf litter nor twigs. That's an intentional stick laid on her IMO. One under Libby's neck, and then placed over another stick. That's not done by throwing sticks on them. That's purposeful IMO.

this branch was so long that it covered a few feet below Abby’s right leg and a foot or so to the right of Abby’s head

At least one of the branches appeared to have its end cut off cleanly by some type of tool like an electric saw.

the man acting alone would have had to have taken a smaller stick and placed it under Libby’s neck, on a straight line from Libby’s right shoulder to her left shoulder, but over the previously laid out large branch that the man acting alone had placed over Libby’s left shoulder

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf -

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[Justice101]

I thought it was the start of building up a pile of sticks for bonfire, but then he heard DG calling.
But RA works retail so he would know a few well placed branches would break up the visual so someone in passing vehicle would not recognize that they are seeing bodies across a creek.

My thought the sticks were a structure for adding a bunch more branches to conceal to buy him some time and hopefully allow nature to degrade the evidence. Most of us have been in the woods like that and there are always various dead limbs laying on the ground here and there. I doubt he cut any of them and just found what he could. he was probably looking for something broader to cover them in (like pine branches, golden rod, etc but I think looking at the CS video, there were any coniferous trees in that immediate area).

I just think he either ran out of branches/sticks that he could find flat on the ground without going closer to the creek or up near the cemetery where he could be seen. Like I said, he either ran out of sticks or ran out of time because wasn't he at the CS for well over an hour already?

 

[INfisherman]

So the Frank's Memo has been 100% disregarded as having any factual info in it? Serious question as I haven't followed this thread like most of you. Because according to it, one of the sticks was longer than Abby's body. That's not leaf litter nor twigs. That's an intentional stick laid on her IMO. One under Libby's neck, and then placed over another stick. That's not done by throwing sticks on them. That's purposeful IMO.

this branch was so long that it covered a few feet below Abby’s right leg and a foot or so to the right of Abby’s head

At least one of the branches appeared to have its end cut off cleanly by some type of tool like an electric saw.

the man acting alone would have had to have taken a smaller stick and placed it under Libby’s neck, on a straight line from Libby’s right shoulder to her left shoulder, but over the previously laid out large branch that the man acting alone had placed over Libby’s left shoulder

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf -

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I’d wouldn’t say it doesn’t have factual info in it. I would lean more towards the facts are being used to craft a theory involving specific people, of which there is no evidence of their actual involvement in this particular crime. Lots of smoke & mirrors.

Baldwin took some early investigative work done by 3 members of LE from discovery & tried to expand upon that in order to introduce doubt that his client was guilty. He named names & could never place any of those names at the scene or area when they needed to be there. His theory was barred from trial. He’s quite melodramatic in his writings but it’s that of a teenager at best, with some lies sprinkled within in hopes of holding the house of cards together.

To me, his work reads like an early draft of a cheap Hollywood screenplay & he defends it as absolute fact until the entire plane is on fire & doing a nosedive straight for the ground below. After the trial, everything he did just reeked of desperation & much of it was outright lies.

MOO