Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #198

[katydid23]

In my opinion, I just can’t make this make sense. Abby was supposedly redressed in Libby’s clothes (that don’t match what reports said Libby was wearing) and the scene was then staged, in my opinion. If he was interrupted, why take the time? Why not just leave them both nude and just run? Maybe Abby was never nude at all and only Libby was. But then in the bridge pic, Abby has a different outfit on. Will the State have a logical explanation for all of this?

As always, JMO

The word 'interrupted' has many levels. Obviously he was not interrupted by armed officers or by Libby's father who was searching.

I think it's more likely he was near the neighbours driveway and he heard a car approaching the area---so he forced the girls across the creek and into the tucked away clearing. JMO

Then he could wait quietly and realised no one had seen them. But it still scared him enough that he had to finish things off. IMO. He could have just thrown some clothes to Abby, ordered her to put them on, then quickly killed her.

In that kind of crazy chaos, nothing makes sense.

 

[Spartygirl]

DAY 2- Jury Selection-- checking in

 

[TTF14]

Apparently he was merely interrupted. Not stopped.

I see it as he had to pause in his actions, regroup, maybe changed his plan somewhat.

I know we all wish the interruption would have led to his abandoning his plan altogether, but tragically he was able to continue with his Plan B.

JMO

That’s a decent theory. In my opinion.

 

[statt#1]

RA's PCA says there were other people on the trails from 2:13 p.m. to 4:11 p.m.

Yes, I'm aware of this fact...but for me that doesn't answer the question of 'how' LE would know he was interrupted by one of those other people, other than to have a record of the fact. From whence does that record come? A witness? A phone? Evidence on the bridge side of the creek?

 

[katydid23]

Desperation by the Defense comes to mind. I'm sure Carter will be asked about the investigative techniques and the statement of more than one person during the PC or some interviews. JMO

Didn't Carter also predict that the killer was a local to Delphi, and his family would possibly be aware something was off?

 

[photographer4]

In my own, personal opinion, If I’m a juror, I’m going to wonder how and why, if a SA was the motive, but RA was interrupted, he took the time to redress Abby and stage the crime scene the way it was staged. If he was interrupted, wouldn’t he have just high-tailed it out of there? This my opinion.

As always, JMO IMO MOOOO

I wonder actually, if he was planning to SA them or one of them and was then interrupted when did he get the chance to murder them and stage them the way he did? It doesn’t seem reasonable to me that a traditional r*** was his plan and he was interrupted but still did these things. He clearly had time to redress / set the scene on how they’d be found - doesn’t speak to a man interrupted and afraid to be caught imo.

The only way that idea works imo… <graphic and I am not going to write it out!> Maybe hearing DG if he was calling for them? Mooooooo.

 

[BUF]

With all information coming from handwritten notes from reporters in that courtroom, I hope we get answers to all the questions we have wondered about for years. This isn’t even a real time trial by tweet, which always loses some detail.

 

[AugustWest]

The state also brought this out on their Cross of Dr. Perlmutter.

Q. Fair to say a crime could be sexually motivated, but before the sexual assault occurs, the crime is committed; fair? - NM
A. Could you say that again? - Dr. P
Q. Sure. The crime initially could be sexually motivated, but before any kind of sexual assault occurs, the person kills the victim. - NM
A. Yes. - Dr. P
Q. If the Defendant said that, would that be important information for you to review before you made your analysis? - NM

The jury hasn't heard a thing from the hearings. Testimony that has been heard in the past that was used for the purposes of the evidentiary hearing would have to be testified to again in court. I don't think the prosecution is going to call Perlmutter on her opinion on the nature/motive of the attack.

I'm only bringing this up as a reminder we have to separate what happened pre-trial from what is happening now. The slate is clean, so to speak. All we know we must assume the jury doesn't.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, I'm aware of this fact...but for me that doesn't answer the question of 'how' LE would know he was interrupted by one of those other people, other than to have a record of the fact. From whence does that record come? A witness? A phone? Evidence on the bridge side of the creek?

Maybe the clothes found on the bank of the creek and one shoe nearby? Maybe it appeared the girls were being stripped on the bridge side, but then the actually murders happened across the creek.

Also, there might be witnesses that testified, like the son of the homeowners, whose land abuts the creek where the clothes were found? He apparently drove up the driveway to check on his parents empty home while thy were away.

If LE saw that report, they'd know a car could have been heard at about 3 pm, coming upon that driveway. That could have spooked RA and forced him to take the girls across the creek and into the brush?

 

[Vern]

The word 'interrupted' has many levels. Obviously he was not interrupted by armed officers or by Libby's father who was searching.

I think it's more likely he was near the neighbours driveway and he heard a car approaching the area---so he forced the girls across the creek and into the tucked away clearing. JMO

Then he could wait quietly and realised no one had seen them. But it still scared him enough that he had to finish things off. IMO. He could have just thrown some clothes to Abby, ordered her to put them on, then quickly killed her.

In that kind of crazy chaos, nothing makes sense.

RBBM.

I agree.

Sorry - Graphic: The potential is also there that he ordered Abby to redress and in her sheer terror and panic she grabbed whatever clothing was nearest herself to redress. If he then moved in to kill this innocent girl, Libby may have taken that opportunity to realize she had to get out of there and attempted to flee the scene, still unclothed, and ergo he had to chase her down, kill her, then drag her back through her own pools of blood be near Abby.

This would also potentially explain the blood evidence and drag marks as testified to under oath at the 3 day Hearings.

 

[Justice101]

The man confessed over 61 times with details and made dozens of incriminating statements. He also, very quickly after the murders, put himself at the crime scene, at the the time, wearing the exact clothes BG was wearing. Not looking so tough to me because there's even more. When the jury hears RA over and over, in his own words, talk and describe what he did, then see in his own handwriting, in his own words admitting he killed Abby and Libby that day (letters to the warden)...why shouldn't they believe him?
AJMO

Which just makes me think back.. what did LE see when they looked back into him, that justified the search of his property and subsequent arrest? I actually cannot remember what they learned that allowed to get them the search warrant. Anyone know?

 

[justtrish]

In my own, personal opinion, If I’m a juror, I’m going to wonder how and why, if a SA was the motive, but RA was interrupted, he took the time to redress Abby and stage the crime scene the way it was staged. If he was interrupted, wouldn’t he have just high-tailed it out of there? This my opinion.

As always, JMO IMO MOOOO

So if he's interrupted before they cross the water and the girls are already forced to undress, I'd say maybe he walked them across the water to ensure evidence was washed off of them. I think Abby was also on the small side so perhaps she was shivering from the cold water and he had her redress somewhat while he was trying to figure out what to do now.... Then Libby tries to run or fight him and he decided the only thing he could do was make sure they couldn't talk or ID him.

If he had a certain idea in his mind of how things would go, then right from the beginning he was forced to change things up, he might have lost it because part of what these predators like is control.. I'd say interruption is a loss of control.

All my opinion, but if he high tailed it out of there, then there would be 2 girls that could describe him and he may not even make it back to his car before the alarm was sounded. Way to risky to just leave the job unfinished. I think this could also be why he threw some sticks over them and moved them somewhat.. he didn't get to do it how he planned so he was more erratic in his actions after the interruption.

 

[WildHuncher]

In my opinion, I just can’t make this make sense. Abby was supposedly redressed in Libby’s clothes (that don’t match what reports said Libby was wearing) and the scene was then staged, in my opinion. If he was interrupted, why take the time? Why not just leave them both nude and just run? Maybe Abby was never nude at all and only Libby was. But then in the bridge pic, Abby has a different outfit on. Will the State have a logical explanation for all of this?

As always, JMO

If we concede that she was dressed differently as found than in the earlier photo, it would appear inescapable that undressing happened. Not so much a supposition as an inevitable conclusion.

 

[Justice101]

The word 'interrupted' has many levels. Obviously he was not interrupted by armed officers or by Libby's father who was searching.

I think it's more likely he was near the neighbours driveway and he heard a car approaching the area---so he forced the girls across the creek and into the tucked away clearing. JMO

Then he could wait quietly and realised no one had seen them. But it still scared him enough that he had to finish things off. IMO. He could have just thrown some clothes to Abby, ordered her to put them on, then quickly killed her.

In that kind of crazy chaos, nothing makes sense.

I never actually thought about a car approaching then as interrupting him...but that makes sense! I just assumed the girls made a run for it... but your idea makes a lot more sense. The only other thing I heard at the time was the family in that house where the gravel roads goes to was in Florida for the winter.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Also, the defense team in the document @FrostedGlass glass shared states RA suffered from a mental illness his entire adult life and was medicated for it. He may not be playing with a full deck.

The reports said RA had depression and anxiety like many millions of other people in the world. RA had been able to function normally in society, it doesn't seem to have adversely affected RA in his daily routines.

He worked steadily, seemed financially stable, purchased a home, had a longtime marriage, a child (grown now), traveled, and hung out playing in pool tournaments at his local pub. That sounds like a person who was managing life just fine.

Until he made that fateful choice on Feb 13, 2017.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

Prosecutors in the murder trial of Richard Allen, the Delphi man who is accused of killing two teenagers, has asked the court to prohibit the sketches used by investigators.

Prosecution in Delphi murders trial seeks to ban suspect sketches

Prosecutors in the murder trial of Richard Allen, the Delphi man who is accused of killing two teenagers, has asked to prohibit sketches.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Justice101]

Prosecutors in the murder trial of Richard Allen, the Delphi man who is accused of killing two teenagers, has asked the court to prohibit the sketches used by investigators.

View attachment 537846

Prosecution in Delphi murders trial seeks to ban suspect sketches

Prosecutors in the murder trial of Richard Allen, the Delphi man who is accused of killing two teenagers, has asked to prohibit sketches.

www.wishtv.com

The court probably won't ban those as evidence used by the Defense... but someone from the prosecution will have to explain how sketches are not very reliable other than race and gender and, in the end, that LE did not use his sketch to identify Richard Allen... other evidence identified him and the sketches don't exclude him even 7 years removed.

 

[katydid23]

In my own, personal opinion, If I’m a juror, I’m going to wonder how and why, if a SA was the motive, but RA was interrupted, he took the time to redress Abby and stage the crime scene the way it was staged. If he was interrupted, wouldn’t he have just high-tailed it out of there? This my opinion.

As always, JMO IMO MOOOO

I am pretty sure the state will be able to explain how it happened in an understandable way.

An 'interruption' can be a fleeting thing. He may have started undressing the girls at the edge of the creek, near one of the homes.[there were clothing items found there] Then he hears a car approaching nearby, and he forces the girls across the water and up into the brush?

They sit quietly for a bit and he realises they are now out of sight, so he takes a little more time. He continues with his sick fantasy, but was possibly interrupted again by voices calling out the girl's names from th bridge? Then he quickly throws some branches and leaves on top and hurries away.

 

[Vaderman]

Prosecutors in the murder trial of Richard Allen, the Delphi man who is accused of killing two teenagers, has asked the court to prohibit the sketches used by investigators.

View attachment 537846

Prosecution in Delphi murders trial seeks to ban suspect sketches

Prosecutors in the murder trial of Richard Allen, the Delphi man who is accused of killing two teenagers, has asked to prohibit sketches.

www.wishtv.com

I wondered if this would be a point of contention for the trial. I think the juror's deserve to know how and why two radically different sketches came about.

 

[katydid23]

The court probably won't ban those as evidence used by the Defense... but someone from the prosecution will have to explain how sketches are not very reliable other than race and gender and, in the end, that LE did not use his sketch to identify Richard Allen... other evidence identified him and the sketches don't exclude him even 7 years removed.

I agree. I don't think the court will ban them. I don't think it's that big of an issue either way.