Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #200

[Mirabel091]

Nick's opening solidifies my feeling that either RA is the victim of a gross injustice, or the defence perpetuated a giant hoax. This isn't your typical case of shades of grey IMO.

MOO

I'm relieved the trial has actually started, but I can't wait for both sides to start giving facts to flesh out their opening claims. We're all sick of the word games, aren't we? It's time to bring out the evidence and let it speak up or fall down.

 

[Bergmann]

Is WishTV a verified source for use here?

If not let me know and I'll delete. Below is not MOO, it is just cut and paste from a reporting source (one of many)

Wish tv live blog:

“Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin begins his opening statement with “Richard Allen is an innocent man.” He tells the jury the investigation was ‘messed up from the beginning, middle even the last couple of days.’ Baldwin says the state of Indiana kicked out the FBI and that a strand of hair was found around Abby’s fingers. He says DNA from the family has never been provided and that they just need to test the girls’ mothers to see if the hair is from a family member or not. Baldwin told the jury the DNA did not match the girls but may match someone from the family.

Baldwin tells the jury that the prosecution’s theory is that at 4 p.m. that day, the girls were deceased, and for the next several hours the bodies didn’t move and that the phone that was found never moved.

Baldwin tells the jury about the CPS parking lot near the trails and that the state’s theory of Allen’s parking does not make sense. He says the defense’s theory is that Allen was never on the trail at the same time as the girls and Allen was gone by 1:30 p.m. that day.

Baldwin tells the jury that witnesses will testify that they did not see Allen’s car and that the man seen on the bridge may not have ever said ‘girls, down the hill.’

He tells the jury that evidence may show the girls went to an access road, to a man named Brad Webber’s house. That the road is under the bridge.

Baldwin then tells the jury “We have reason to believe those girls may have gotten into a vehicle at a road near Brad Webber’s property.”

Baldwin says Libby’s phone was connected to a cell tower until 5:44 p.m., that it stopped connecting then reconnected the tower at 3:45 p.m. Baldwin says “This is the same phone the state says was under Abby’s body.” Baldwin says the phone was working when it was found and that the phone was out of the area and someone brought the girls to where they were found.

Baldwin tells the jury that at 4:34 a.m., 15 texts came through to Libby’s phone. He describes the search for the girls on the 13th and says the area was where the girls were found was searched but the girls were not there. “Not one person saw any bodies over there, nobody saw any clothing in the creeks on the 13th.”

Baldwin describes Allen and his family and talk about false confessions. He tells the jury the bullet was found in the ground, that no photos of it were taken from different angles. He says the bullet was ejected through a gun but not fired, so they tested it out on a new bullet and the markings were not the same. He tells the jury it is like ‘apples and oranges’.

Baldwin tells the jury the defense believes two different people were involved. At 10:53 a.m. Baldwin concluded his opening statement.”

 

[mrjitty]

I'm relieved the trial has actually started, but I can't wait for both sides to start giving facts to flesh out their opening claims. We're all sick of the word games, aren't we? It's time to bring out the evidence and let it speak up or fall down.

Sure. But we already know the D don't have evidence that the victims were abducted to a secret location by a mysterious band of men. If they did, they would have advanced it at the 3 day hearing.

That is why I am saying it is either just some wild reality and an innocent man ended up wearing the charges because he is that unlucky to just be around the bridge at the time, or we are looking at a gigantic hoax that played out pre-trial.

The defence do not appear to have some other fall back strategy. The timeline defence is just the same defence that flopped on to the shoreline weeks ago.

MOO

 

[Sarahlou]

I haven't posted in these threads for a very long time, but I've been following them. This trial has been a very long time coming. Hoping justice is served.

 

[girlhasnoname]

What is Tms?

The Murder Sheet Podcast. It's an approved source here.

 

[zh0r4]

Baldwin says the state of Indiana kicked out the FBI

Very bold statement and easy to verify. Why kick the FBI out?? Most small towns would love their help, especially re: digital forensics.

and that a strand of hair was found around Abby’s fingers. He says DNA from the family has never been provided and that they just need to test the girls’ mothers to see if the hair is from a family member or not. Baldwin told the jury the DNA did not match the girls but may match someone from the family.

IMO it sounds like all he’s saying is the hair didn’t rule out a family member, but wasn’t RA’s. Implying if the hair was a family members, it could be ruled out as not connected to the murders. What matters is that it should have been tested immediately.
What if it wasn’t a female family member’s? What if it is the hair of a female unrelated to the girls?

Baldwin tells the jury that witnesses will testify that they did not see Allen’s car and that the man seen on the bridge may not have ever said ‘girls, down the hill.’

Does this mean digital forensics shows otherwise? I was always under the impression the video and audio were all part of the same 43 second video per mentioned in the PCA?

He tells the jury that evidence may show the girls went to an access road, to a man named Brad Webber’s house. That the road is under the bridge.

Baldwin then tells the jury “We have reason to believe those girls may have gotten into a vehicle at a road near Brad Webber’s property.”

Who is this person? Was he mentioned earlier in the investigation?

Baldwin says Libby’s phone was connected to a cell tower until 5:44 p.m., that it stopped connecting then reconnected the tower at 3:45 p.m. Baldwin says “This is the same phone the state says was under Abby’s body.” Baldwin says the phone was working when it was found and that the phone was out of the area and someone brought the girls to where they were found.

Baldwin tells the jury that at 4:34 a.m., 15 texts came through to Libby’s phone.

Weren’t the murders over before 5:44pm? How odd if so, the murderer(s) would have turned the phone back on again at 4:34am?? Or is the TOD way off? FTR I think it was found under Libby’s body. I can’t wait to hear more abt the digital forensics, which will be key.

RSBM
BBM

 

[Mirabel091]

Sure. But we already know the D don't have evidence that the victims were abducted to a secret location by a mysterious band of men. If they did, they would have advanced it at the 3 day hearing.

That is why I am saying it is either just some wild reality and an innocent man ended up wearing the charges because he is that unlucky to just be around the bridge at the time, or we are looking at a gigantic hoax that played out pre-trial.

The defence do not appear to have some other fall back strategy. The timeline defence is just the same defence that flopped on to the shoreline weeks ago.

MOO

IMO the defence are trying to get the prosecution on the defensive by lobbing these claims out. Make them chase, make them look like they missed something, make a distraction. And, it makes sense for them to do that, if that creates doubt around their client.

But I want to cut ahead and find out exactly why, out of all the sick creeps in and around Delphi the state had to pick from, it was meek little store clerk RA that got arrested and what they have on him that wasn't in the PCA. Because there's got to be something to make it worth bringing this case to court. What do they think they've got that makes RA the guy?

 

[Yemelyan]

Starting at the 44:55 mark, the misplaced tip that RA gave in 2017 was explained by McLeland during opening statements. He was listed as Richard Whiteman of Allen Drive. I will be anxious to hear if RA gave this incorrect name/address to the officer or if the officer wrote it down wrong.

TMS also says that this tip was uncovered by a woman named Kathy Shank.

Her name first came to light back at the time of RA's arrest when LE held a press conference and Carter went down a list thanking multiple people and he said "Mrs. Kathy Shank, for your incredible dedication to detail." Many people guessed at that time that she was a DNA analyst because just prior he had thanked "the many scientists and DNA specialists" as he was talking.

However, if you see this article, she mentions her role, perhaps later a paid one: Pat McAfee, Jim Irsay raise Delphi reward to $200K

In addition to all that money, people in Delphi are giving of themselves, giving a hand to detectives looking for a break in this case.
“I’m here to help any way I can,” announced Kathy Shank at the police task force headquarters. She returned home from a vacation Tuesday night and signed up Wednesday morning to run the headquarters reception desk.
“I know the family of Liberty, I feel like I need to be here,” she said.

 

[Yemelyan]

Is WishTV a verified source for use here?

If not let me know and I'll delete. Below is not MOO, it is just cut and paste from a reporting source (one of many)

Wish tv live blog:

“Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin begins his opening statement with “Richard Allen is an innocent man.” He tells the jury the investigation was ‘messed up from the beginning, middle even the last couple of days.’ Baldwin says the state of Indiana kicked out the FBI and that a strand of hair was found around Abby’s fingers. He says DNA from the family has never been provided and that they just need to test the girls’ mothers to see if the hair is from a family member or not. Baldwin told the jury the DNA did not match the girls but may match someone from the family.

Baldwin tells the jury that the prosecution’s theory is that at 4 p.m. that day, the girls were deceased, and for the next several hours the bodies didn’t move and that the phone that was found never moved.

Baldwin tells the jury about the CPS parking lot near the trails and that the state’s theory of Allen’s parking does not make sense. He says the defense’s theory is that Allen was never on the trail at the same time as the girls and Allen was gone by 1:30 p.m. that day.

Baldwin tells the jury that witnesses will testify that they did not see Allen’s car and that the man seen on the bridge may not have ever said ‘girls, down the hill.’

He tells the jury that evidence may show the girls went to an access road, to a man named Brad Webber’s house. That the road is under the bridge.

Baldwin then tells the jury “We have reason to believe those girls may have gotten into a vehicle at a road near Brad Webber’s property.”

Baldwin says Libby’s phone was connected to a cell tower until 5:44 p.m., that it stopped connecting then reconnected the tower at 3:45 p.m. Baldwin says “This is the same phone the state says was under Abby’s body.” Baldwin says the phone was working when it was found and that the phone was out of the area and someone brought the girls to where they were found.

Baldwin tells the jury that at 4:34 a.m., 15 texts came through to Libby’s phone. He describes the search for the girls on the 13th and says the area was where the girls were found was searched but the girls were not there. “Not one person saw any bodies over there, nobody saw any clothing in the creeks on the 13th.”

Baldwin describes Allen and his family and talk about false confessions. He tells the jury the bullet was found in the ground, that no photos of it were taken from different angles. He says the bullet was ejected through a gun but not fired, so they tested it out on a new bullet and the markings were not the same. He tells the jury it is like ‘apples and oranges’.

Baldwin tells the jury the defense believes two different people were involved. At 10:53 a.m. Baldwin concluded his opening statement.”

It's an Indianapolis/Central Indiana mainstream news station, so you should be good.

 

[FrostedGlass]

i was coming to mention this as I see Defence Diaries being posted here. Motta is not independent. He is a defence surrogate. So take his posts with that in mind.

It is also hard to square how Judge Gull reconciles her media orders with the defence bringing its own youtubers??

Imagine if the prosecution gave some of its seats to guilter podcasters?

It must have been OK or she would have tossed him out. IMO
Do we know who sat at the P's table?

What does it mean: "guilter podcaster"?

 

[Salah11]

Hopefully I can keep up today as the tread moved at such a pace last night.

Do we know if RA will take the stand?

 

[WildHuncher]

Is WishTV a verified source for use here?

If not let me know and I'll delete. Below is not MOO, it is just cut and paste from a reporting source (one of many)

Wish tv live blog:

“Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin begins his opening statement with “Richard Allen is an innocent man.” He tells the jury the investigation was ‘messed up from the beginning, middle even the last couple of days.’ Baldwin says the state of Indiana kicked out the FBI and that a strand of hair was found around Abby’s fingers. He says DNA from the family has never been provided and that they just need to test the girls’ mothers to see if the hair is from a family member or not. Baldwin told the jury the DNA did not match the girls but may match someone from the family.

Baldwin tells the jury that the prosecution’s theory is that at 4 p.m. that day, the girls were deceased, and for the next several hours the bodies didn’t move and that the phone that was found never moved.

Baldwin tells the jury about the CPS parking lot near the trails and that the state’s theory of Allen’s parking does not make sense. He says the defense’s theory is that Allen was never on the trail at the same time as the girls and Allen was gone by 1:30 p.m. that day.

Baldwin tells the jury that witnesses will testify that they did not see Allen’s car and that the man seen on the bridge may not have ever said ‘girls, down the hill.’

He tells the jury that evidence may show the girls went to an access road, to a man named Brad Webber’s house. That the road is under the bridge.

Baldwin then tells the jury “We have reason to believe those girls may have gotten into a vehicle at a road near Brad Webber’s property.”

Baldwin says Libby’s phone was connected to a cell tower until 5:44 p.m., that it stopped connecting then reconnected the tower at 3:45 p.m. Baldwin says “This is the same phone the state says was under Abby’s body.” Baldwin says the phone was working when it was found and that the phone was out of the area and someone brought the girls to where they were found.

Baldwin tells the jury that at 4:34 a.m., 15 texts came through to Libby’s phone. He describes the search for the girls on the 13th and says the area was where the girls were found was searched but the girls were not there. “Not one person saw any bodies over there, nobody saw any clothing in the creeks on the 13th.”

Baldwin describes Allen and his family and talk about false confessions. He tells the jury the bullet was found in the ground, that no photos of it were taken from different angles. He says the bullet was ejected through a gun but not fired, so they tested it out on a new bullet and the markings were not the same. He tells the jury it is like ‘apples and oranges’.

Baldwin tells the jury the defense believes two different people were involved. At 10:53 a.m. Baldwin concluded his opening statement.”

This part:

“He says DNA from the family has never been provided and that they just need to test the girls’ mothers to see if the hair is from a family member or not. Baldwin told the jury the DNA did not match the girls but may match someone from the family.”

I am not a biologist, but I’m sure that what follows at least is right. Your biological siblings and parents have DNA that, while it does not match your own, is very similar to your own. The odds are astronomical that a random stranger would test with a (forgive me here) similar similarity.

One half of your nuclear DNA is paternal. One half is maternal. Both you and your sister are half Mommy and half Daddy. It’s just not in the same mix. You got your father’s eyes. She got his tendency to ulcers, etc.

That’s what it means to have a familial match. You can go find the exact match if you need that info, but you can be sure already it’s in the near biological family and not the wicked stepmother. The odds of non-family testing as family are preposterous. If you have already ruled out the family, you’re done.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Baldwin says the state of Indiana kicked out the FBI

FBI was still involved in 2022. Not kicked off.

Feb 11, 2022

DELPHI—Sunday, February 13, marks five years since the murders of 14-year-old Liberty German and 13-year-old Abigail Williams in Delphi, Indiana. Their bodies were discovered in a wooded area on February 14, 2017, not far from the Monon High Bridge trail.

The FBI has provided assistance and resources to the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department, Indiana State Police, and Delphi Police Department in an effort to identify the individual(s) responsible for Libby and Abby’s murders. We remain committed to providing support to our state and local partners.

Anyone with information is requested to call the tip line at 765-822-3535. Callers can remain anonymous. Tips can also be submitted online at [email protected].

The case is being featured on the FBI’s Most Wanted page as the Case of the Week: https://www.fbi.gov/wanted.

FBI Joins Law Enforcement Partners to Mark Anniversary of Delphi Murders | Federal Bureau of Investigation

 

[steeltowngirl]

Hopefully I can keep up today as the tread moved at such a pace last night.

Do we know if RA will take the stand?

I wildly predict that RA may take the stand.

jmo

 

[Trebor5591]

Why didn't the prosecutor read some of Allen's "confessions" during the opening statements? He barely mentioned them. I really want to read these "confessions". I really hope they were not made while Allen was in a state of psychosis.

 

[Trebor5591]

I wildly predict that RA may take the stand.

jmo

RA would be a fool to take the stand. The Prosecutions case is looking pretty weak.

 

[Inthedetails]

I wildly predict that RA may take the stand.

jmo

I predict he won't.

jmo

 

[steeltowngirl]

I predict he won't.

jmo

I acknowledge it’s a wild prediction and that I am in the .000001 percent here that thinks he might. With all the tricks defense has pulled out of their hat, putting RA on the stand would not surprise me. If it were done, it would be in an attempt to humanize him as a member of the Delphi community, and to try to dismiss the idea that he was hiding in plain sight.

jmo

 

[Salah11]

RA would be a fool to take the stand. The Prosecutions case is looking pretty weak.

How does that work when he has confessed 61 times and admits he was out on the bridge?

 

[m00c0w]

IMO it sounds like all he’s saying is the hair didn’t rule out a family member, but wasn’t RA’s. Implying if the hair was a family members, it could be ruled out as not connected to the murders. What matters is that it should have been tested immediately.
What if it wasn’t a female family member’s? What if it is the hair of a female unrelated to the girls?

RSBM

I believe we will learn that they did test the DNA immediately, and performed genetic genealogy on the result. It showed as matching a female family member of a victim, so was not pursued further as it was probably deemed irrelevant and a waste of limited resources.

JMO