Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #200

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As hard as it's been for us to even follow along and listen to some of the testimony so far in the case, I hope this Jury takes their day off to reenergize and prepare for the long week ahead. The same goes for the families of Abby and Libby, and the community of Delphi as a whole.

It cannot be an easy thing for anyone involved, but it's time. Justice delayed is Justice denied.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO
 
Looking over the clothing items and the arrangement of the articles. Like a lot of other people on here, I'm trying to figure out why one victim was treated so much differently from the other; why one victim is clothed so differently from the other; why Libby's phone was left behind; why that bullet is between the victims; and the meaning of RA's keepsake bullet in the wooden box in a dresser in the master bedroom (??).

We'll know to the extent possible soon on at least some of these questions, I hope. In the meantime, just kind of mulling over the "interruption" mentioned by P. Interrupted how? I doubt it's human interference. They know who was on the trails at that time on that day, correct? But I can't be sure, and maybe they can't, either (?) However, assuming it wasn't human interruption (like some unrelated person on the trail), what are some possibilities? Someone fell off the bridge. Someone fell descending down the hill. Someone was injured, maybe one or both of the girls, maybe he was injured. I don't think Libby's phone ringing was the interruption because this would have emphasized in his mind the need to dispose of that phone, and it was left behind. Was there some physical altercation, did one of the girls throw a rock or something at him? Did an animal make noise or movement that spooked him?

On the unspent bullet between the girls, it was partially buried. This is (obviously) just a guess, but I think the killer had a rich fantasy life and this somehow played into the particulars of his fantasy. There's really no reason for that bullet to be there. And RA has that keepsake bullet in the wooden box that he kept in a dresser in his master bedroom. Why the "keepsake" bullet? Two bullets, two victims? The strange clothing situation, too, where one victim's wearing the other's clothes, might be part of his fantasy. But also wondering if he was extremely concerned about the clothing articles that went into the creek. He had to know those were going to be like a calling card to LE finding the CS. Maybe he was frantically trying to make sure no other clothing items ended up in the creek after his departure (dragged off by wind, rain, animals...) Just thoughts & guesses on this as I'm mulling it over.
"Interruption" - before or during murder? I missed it somehow. TIA
 
@Vern - or anyone else that might know -have these motions been decided on??

*State’s Motion in Limine – IPAS - ??

*State’s Motion in Limine- Tobin – Under advisement.

*Defense’s Response To State’s Motion in Limine-Tobin – Under advisement.

*Motion for Order on Designated Defense Representatives - ??

TIA!
 
"Interruption" - before or during murder? I missed it somehow. TIA
From ABC57 on "X": "Prosecutor Nick McLeland presented his opening statement, he alleged that Allen forced the girls off the Monon High Bridge and intended to harm them but was interrupted."

Another source: "McLeland said Allen planned to 'have his way' with the girls but was interrupted and then killed them."
 
So they're sealed?

But will be shown in court during testimony and everyone can see them on those days?
Not all of them are sealed, but "some" of them are. I do suspect, for example, that the media - or we - will never see crime scene photos that include photos of Abby & Libby deceased. Me, I'm OK with that.

Of course the Jury will see those photos. This wouldn't be the first trial where photos deemed to be 'confidential' were displayed to the jurors or witness in a manner that also prevented the media and public in the courtroom from actually seeing them too.
 
@Vern - or anyone else that might know -have these motions been decided on??

*State’s Motion in Limine – IPAS - ??

*State’s Motion in Limine- Tobin – Under advisement.

*Defense’s Response To State’s Motion in Limine-Tobin – Under advisement.

*Motion for Order on Designated Defense Representatives - ??

TIA!
Ruling on Tobin Motion has not been issued, she stated on Friday not to have reviewed Thursday evening, she didn’t provide any specific time frame for issuing ruling.
 
@Vern - or anyone else that might know -have these motions been decided on??

*State’s Motion in Limine – IPAS - ??

*State’s Motion in Limine- Tobin – Under advisement.

*Defense’s Response To State’s Motion in Limine-Tobin – Under advisement.

*Motion for Order on Designated Defense Representatives - ??

TIA!
Nothing up yet. I keep checking (a couple of times an hour LOL)!
 
I have been so vested in the tragedy of these 2 girls from day one. I live just a town or two over from them. Last week my DH had a sudden health crisis leading to ER and hospital stay. My priority of course is with him. My brain is scrambled. I try to catch up here but it is impossible. I wish we had a thread with no discussion but highlights of what transpired in court. I value all the discussions of course. Is there one place perhaps on line that gives a short synopsis of what transpired in court each day? Thanks all for everything.
 
Ruling on Tobin Motion has not been issued, she stated on Friday not to have reviewed Thursday evening, she didn’t provide any specific time frame for issuing ruling.

Nothing up yet. I keep checking (a couple of times an hour LOL)!

Okay - thank you both for your responses! Just "tag" me @Vern - when they pop up! TIA! :)
 
Oh my. I was watching Lawyer Laura Lee recap the defense's opening and according to what Lee relayed it is my opinion that the defense doesn't even know the correct information in the case.

According to her the defense said the girls' were dropped off at 1:47 p.m. according to RA's PCA it says 1:49 p.m. (Not that big a deal but whatev)

Lee says Allen owned a 2014 Ford Focus. It was actually a 2016 model. According to RA's PCA.

Says girls' got on the bridge at 2:05 p.m.
It would have been a few minutes before this because Libby took that picture of just the bridge at 2:05 p.m. and she was in between the second and third platforms. Photographic evidence and Divets in the bridge prove this.

They claim that Libby and Abby got on the bridge at 2:05 p.m. and at 2:07 p.m. they passed Betsy Blair.
What? Betsy Blair wasn't ON the bridge according to RA's PCA.

Then she says at 2:07 p.m. Libby took a photo on the bridge. This is correct Libby was standing on the third platform at this time looking back at Abby walking on the bridge and took her picture. How could the girls' pass by Betsy Blair at 2:07 p.m.? Betsy had turned around at the bridge and halfway between the bridge and the parking area across from the Mear's farm is when she seen Libby and Abby according to RA's PCA.

I didn't finish the video yet but just commenting on what I've seen so far.

The defense doesn't even know the correct timeline imo.
 
I have been so vested in the tragedy of these 2 girls from day one. I live just a town or two over from them. Last week my DH had a sudden health crisis leading to ER and hospital stay. My priority of course is with him. My brain is scrambled. I try to catch up here but it is impossible. I wish we had a thread with no discussion but highlights of what transpired in court. I value all the discussions of course. Is there one place perhaps on line that gives a short synopsis of what transpired in court each day? Thanks all for everything.
The Media Only No Discussion thread here at might be a good place to start. There have been some recaps by Fox59 and WishTV as well. JMO
 
I have been so vested in the tragedy of these 2 girls from day one. I live just a town or two over from them. Last week my DH had a sudden health crisis leading to ER and hospital stay. My priority of course is with him. My brain is scrambled. I try to catch up here but it is impossible. I wish we had a thread with no discussion but highlights of what transpired in court. I value all the discussions of course. Is there one place perhaps on line that gives a short synopsis of what transpired in court each day? Thanks all for everything.

I've found this link to be the easiest way to follow the case so far.

You'll see links for each day on their page.

 
I kind of thought once their SODDI strategy flopped that the defence would have something a bit more than this second location idea. Just seems too preposterous on it's face.

Surely it's simply better to say our man was not there, there is strange phone stuff, we don't know what happened? I think if they need the jury to actually take the second location seriously, its an uphill battle with the confessions on the scales.

For a juror, i feel like it will become one story - the simple and obvious one - versus a complicated one. Maybe they feel if they don't have something, they are sunk?

MOO
I agree with what I assume will be a challenge for Defense to get the Jury to accept a complicated theory. It feels as if the Defense is trying to force a third party scenario for the deaths to create reasonable doubt. In doing so they could be creating risk for trapping themselves into corner with no logical escape, it might be best to force Prosecution to prove guilt that Defense focuses on successfully defending against in response and doesn’t jeopardize their appeal, if convicted- claims of a third party being responsible and not involving Allen, which due to lack of proof Judge Gull denied Defense request to present in their defense strategy.
 
Oh my. I was watching Lawyer Laura Lee recap the defense's opening and according to what Lee relayed it is my opinion that the defense doesn't even know the correct information in the case.

According to her the defense said the girls' were dropped off at 1:47 p.m. according to RA's PCA it says 1:49 p.m. (Not that big a deal but whatev)

Lee says Allen owned a 2014 Ford Focus. It was actually a 2016 model. According to RA's PCA.

Says girls' got on the bridge at 2:05 p.m.
It would have been a few minutes before this because Libby took that picture of just the bridge at 2:05 p.m. and she was in between the second and third platforms. Photographic evidence and Divets in the bridge prove this.

They claim that Libby and Abby got on the bridge at 2:05 p.m. and at 2:07 p.m. they passed Betsy Blair.
What? Betsy Blair wasn't ON the bridge according to RA's PCA.

Then she says at 2:07 p.m. Libby took a photo on the bridge. This is correct Libby was standing on the third platform at this time looking back at Abby walking on the bridge and took her picture. How could the girls' pass by Betsy Blair at 2:07 p.m.? Betsy had turned around at the bridge and halfway between the bridge and the parking area across from the Mear's farm is when she seen Libby and Abby according to RA's PCA.

I didn't finish the video yet but just commenting on what I've seen so far.

The defense doesn't even know the correct timeline imo.
That's why I stick to MSM or approved sources only. It's ridiculous how crazy this reporting has gotten and it helps preserve my sanity. lol

MOO
 
I have been so vested in the tragedy of these 2 girls from day one. I live just a town or two over from them. Last week my DH had a sudden health crisis leading to ER and hospital stay. My priority of course is with him. My brain is scrambled. I try to catch up here but it is impossible. I wish we had a thread with no discussion but highlights of what transpired in court. I value all the discussions of course. Is there one place perhaps on line that gives a short synopsis of what transpired in court each day? Thanks all for everything.
The Media Thread is being kept updated by some awesome posters.

There's links only, no discussion allowed:
 
I have been so vested in the tragedy of these 2 girls from day one. I live just a town or two over from them. Last week my DH had a sudden health crisis leading to ER and hospital stay. My priority of course is with him. My brain is scrambled. I try to catch up here but it is impossible. I wish we had a thread with no discussion but highlights of what transpired in court. I value all the discussions of course. Is there one place perhaps on line that gives a short synopsis of what transpired in court each day? Thanks all for everything.
Hugs to you and I am sending healing thoughts and prayers for your husband.

If you have time to listen to a podcast while doing other things the Murder Sheet is sitting in court each day (if they manage to get a spot each day) and they both take notes and then go over it in a podcast nightly. They are on spotify, apple podcasts, and other podcast apps. It's a great way to catch up if you are driving or need to be doing something else where you can't sit and read a lot of information. Others have already mentioned good places to read the latest.
 
This is only my opinion, but the notion that RA's solitary confinement was not as bad as it could have been means he can't possibly have experienced psychosis is extremely faulty and short sighted. RA may not have been in the movie version of solitary confinement (being plunged into a black pit, chained to the wall with rats crawling all over him, soiling himself), but he was still in today's version of solitary confinement.

In my opinion, myriad studies have been done on the negative effects of today's solitary confinement, not the dungeon/rats version. Many of them have been linked by others in the threads about this case. The notion that someone's trauma isn't valid because it's not as bad as it could have been (or as bad as someone else's was) isn't something psychiatric professionals believe (in my opinion), nor will the jury if they've experienced even a smidgen of trauma in their own lives and have gained wisdom because of it.

And this doesn't even take into account that we all have different constitutions. Some of us would fare well in isolation, probably. Others, like extroverts whose God-given personalities make them need the company of others more, would wither--physically and mentally--quickly.

As always, this is just all my opinion.
 
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From ABC57 on "X": "Prosecutor Nick McLeland presented his opening statement, he alleged that Allen forced the girls off the Monon High Bridge and intended to harm them but was interrupted."

Another source: "McLeland said Allen planned to 'have his way' with the girls but was interrupted and then killed them."
It would seem this is something NM can only suggest. Not sure there’s a way to actually prove this to the jury. Time will tell. JMO
 
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