Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #201

[Tealgrove]

I believe the word used was “signatures” by, and again *i believe* it was Holeman?

Of course, jmt. I do remember a lot of the word “signature” being thrown around right from the get go. Something along the lines of 4-5 signatures left at the scene? Feel free to correct me if I am wrong!

It was Robert Ives, the District Attorney at the time.

He is now retired.

 

[katydid23]

This does not mention when the bullet was found at all.

There are other reports that make it clear that it was on the same day as the bodies being found:

Prosecutors next called Indiana State Police Sgt. Duane Datzman, a crime scene technician, to the stand. He’s now retired, but was the CSI at the Delphi Murders crime scene. He has at least 20 years as a CSI, visiting hundreds of crime scenes.

Datzman talked about more than a dozen photos of the crime scene. He talked about where blood was found on and near the girls’ bodies. He also noted glitter[splatter?] was found on leaves on the ground. He also talked about photos of the gun cartridge found near one of the girls’ bodies. He said he did not disturb the cartridge.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 3 live blog

Follow the trial of Richard Allen, accused of the Delphi Murders, as he faces charges for the deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wishtv.com

So Sgt. Datzman was at the scene while the bodies were still there and he also saw the bullet at that time because he said he did not disturb it.

 

[Simply Southern]

The D's point in the FM was that there was no CoC turned over to them.

I showed the receipt and return of the search warrant on his home to show that there apparently were no CoC filed with that State's exhibit, either.

Since the P has lined up CoC witnesses, I'm going to assume the paperwork was not done.

5.7.24 Richard Allen Motions Hearing.pdf

drive.google.com

Are you referring to the COC form accompanying each piece of evidence, tracking movement?
The COC is not usually turned over, however the attorneys have the right to review evidence/COC prior to trial.
Moo...I would think the attorney would request a copy.
Example...

Google Image Result for https://www.pdffiller.com/preview/433/483/433483225/large.png

 

[katydid23]

Not really. The D said in the FM they had pics of it in the ground but none of it being removed. From the article you quoted, this was the problematic part (No chain of custody):
"Investigators did not take any pictures or video of the bullet in the ground or of it being removed."

If they have pictures of it there, in the ground, why is it important to have a picture of it being removed?

I'm sure it was put in a labeled sealed envelope, dated, signed and taken for testing.

What is a picture of it being picked up and put into the envelope going to do?

 

[shonyakay]

My husband told me today, if anything happens to me, to CHARGE! at the guy. He said that it is possible I am going to die either way under the circumstances. He said fight for all I am worth. He said if those 2 girls would have whipped around and charged him, they could have pushed him over the train trussle. Even if they too went over, they wouldn't die at his hands

"BG" ambushed them at the end of the bridge by the "Down the Hill" side of the bridge. They all three were fairly close to the end of the bridge when LG recorded "BG" walking behind Abby.

For reference...down
There are 6 platforms on the bridge.
Platform 1 where "BG" was seen by Betsy B. In between Platform 2 and 3 where Libby took a picture of just the bridge. Platform 3 where Libby was looking back taking the picture of Abby walking. Platform 4. In between Platform 5 amd 6 is where "BG" was walking toward the girls' when Libby took the video.

Being chased by an armed man counts as 'forced' in my book.

But I'm assuming that they think he still had control of them after the creek crossing. If they'd run for it, then I think that he would have struggled to regain control without actually using the gun.

MOO

I get that but from what I heard it seemed like it wasn't the girls' choice to cross the creek.

Maybe the interrupting was by the girls' not complying and them trying to make a run for it across the creek but he then regained control and forced them all the way across.

 

[m00c0w]

If they have pictures of it there, in the ground, why is it important to have a picture of it being removed?

I'm sure it was put in a labeled sealed envelope, dated, signed and taken for testing.

What is a picture of it being picked up and put into the envelope going to do?

If there were pictures, they’d want video. If there was video, they’d want notarized affidavits. They need to try to discredit this piece of evidence in any way that they can think of, because the alternative is that it’s their client’s and there aren’t many reasons his bullet would be next to a dead child.

JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

Great question. But it’s kind of hard to answer this question when the first 70 days of interviews were accidentally lost. JMO.

The transcripts are available, the original audio was taped over in error. However no suspect were identified in the first 70 days and the D has never gave any indication the transcripts are not accurate.

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848562061233537268

 

[Falling Down]

They would have done better going to the local barbeque store. You'd struggle greatly to reach the liver with an oral thermometer.

But seriously, not their job.

MOO

The condescension and semantics coming from the D is nauseating.

 

[ClearAhead]

it must be exhausting to line-up early in the morning, spend the long hours in the courthouse, then put together a podcast. However I appreciate it as their detailed observations and explanations are very insightful for me. JMO

Day 3

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Three: The Crime Scene

We discuss the third day of Richard Allen's trial, which saw the jury view graphic crime scene pictures. Support The Murder Sheet by buying a t-shirt here: https://www.murdersheetshop.com/ Send tips to [email protected]. The Murder Sheet is a production of Mystery Sheet LLC.

art19.com

 

[Tealgrove]

In the FM, the D said they had three pics of it in the ground but nothing after that. They did find one from the lab but there was nothing in between.

So there was really no visual proof that the bullet found at the scene was the same one that ended up in the lab.
MOO

The D's point in the FM was that there was no CoC turned over to them.

I showed the receipt and return of the search warrant on his home to show that there apparently were no CoC filed with that State's exhibit, either.

Since the P has lined up CoC witnesses, I'm going to assume the paperwork was not done.

5.7.24 Richard Allen Motions Hearing.pdf

drive.google.com

Why are you referencing the FM when it has been ruled out by the court?

 

[New Penny]

Just looking for opinions here - obviously not facts.

Aside from us all wanting justice done and if you set aside the facts we have heard so far - the things we have heard about RA - if you look at the individual, if you see his wife and family, if you see how he was open enough to share those facts we know, if you look at how he has deteriorated in some ways in prison - - do you personally feel he could be capable of doing what was done? Maybe I haven’t heard everything? ( was he a hunter? Previous arrests? Known for being violent?). I am NOT saying my opinion is that he didn’t do it - not at all. I’m just want JUSTICE and for them to have the right guy!!! Also, I know sometimes a killer is not what you expect them to be like - example: Ted Bundy.
Just looking for opinions and conversation!!

JMO

Ok so one opinion I have is a dreadful deed such as this being laid bare for all of the world to see would be extremely detrimental to most human beings. The shame! For instance the Golden State Killer. When he appeared in court shackled, in orange and in a wheel chair, unable (unwilling?) to even speak, contrary to numerous reports of prior to arrest was living life in full. Seeing pics of RA in custody, diminished from the BG persona, brought to my mind’s eye instantly GSK and his crash to reality.

RA perhaps, is a “one and done” thankful to have gotten away for 5 1/2 years having experienced that one thing he wanted, maybe craved. He probably has relived it over and over.

Examples of people getting away with evil until they aren’t.

MOO

 

[smamda]

Just looking for opinions here [...] do you personally feel he could be capable of doing what was done? Maybe I haven’t heard everything? ( was he a hunter? Previous arrests? Known for being violent?). I am NOT saying my opinion is that he didn’t do it - not at all. I’m just want JUSTICE and for them to have the right guy!!! Also, I know sometimes a killer is not what you expect them to be like - example: Ted Bundy.
Just looking for opinions and conversation!!

JMO

I totally think it's possible, just based on the wide variety of murderers prosecuted. It's been said by psychologists and profilers that killers who commit crimes like this horrible one usually have very vivid and detailed fantasies before (and after) the murders. I guess there are some who are able to really divide and separate their fantasy life from the one they share with their loved ones and the public.
IMO!! good convo starter for sure

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848565691407888764

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Just looking for opinions here - obviously not facts.

Aside from us all wanting justice done and if you set aside the facts we have heard so far - the things we have heard about RA - if you look at the individual, if you see his wife and family, if you see how he was open enough to share those facts we know, if you look at how he has deteriorated in some ways in prison - - do you personally feel he could be capable of doing what was done? Maybe I haven’t heard everything? ( was he a hunter? Previous arrests? Known for being violent?). I am NOT saying my opinion is that he didn’t do it - not at all. I’m just want JUSTICE and for them to have the right guy!!! Also, I know sometimes a killer is not what you expect them to be like - example: Ted Bundy.
Just looking for opinions and conversation!!

JMO

RA said, twice, he was on the bridge at the correct time.
No information has come out that has taken him off.
He remains there today.

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848567310954471471

 

[Vern]

I can't say that I'm disappointed to see yet another Franks' Memorandum allegation put to bed with the drawing below. No wonder Judge Gull denied it.

Try as I might, I'm not seeing any smaller sticks on Abby's head resembling horns or antlers as page 30 described it:

Above Abby’s head were smaller sticks that had been placed over her hair, crudely mimicking horns or antlers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848500954670264538

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf -

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[IzzyBlanche]

Once again, I haven't followed this case as closely as a lot of you have, so I'm not aware of what evidence has been reported on previously.

Now that the trial is in motion, I am shocked at the brutality of this crime.

Do I think RA, with no previous criminal record, is capable of it?

Yes I do. I think people sometimes just snap.

 

[gremlin444]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848569765926694996

 

[smamda]

Wow I've been on this thread and listening to MS for hours haha whoops! But seriously, I am on a business trip, currently in my hotel room alone with my thoughts... thinking about how the jury is also alone in their hotel rooms with their thoughts, probably horrible ones after the things they saw and heard today. I do hope they are able to keep strength and get rest. We are all counting on them! Goodnight.