Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #201

[MassGuy]

JMO but sounds like they knew he was following and they wanted to get away - there was nowhere to go except “down here”

Yup, that makes the most sense based on the context. Unfortunately, that's also the way he wanted them to go.

 

[Warwick7]

This is a bombshell in my opinion, if I’m reading this right, the girls were talking about going off the path and “down here” which would be down the hill before the “guys, down the hill” jmo

To me it's not a bombshell but a heart break. It looks like they knew he was following and they wanted to get away, yet there was nowhere to go except ----down here. M00
;0(

 

[sunshineray]

I feel that if there were indeed "very powerful" statements coming straight from RA, we would have heard more about the details in the opening statement, which we did not, did we?

Why more in opening statements beside RA, in his confessions, tells the how and why? I'd think the reason NMcL said no more is it's much better, more powerful, to hear it all from RA himself...in his own words, his voice confessing to his mother and wife. Far more impactful than anything NMcL could have said in his opening statement, which are not evidence. AJMO

 

[Trebor5591]

Except it wasn't just sticks, I've read where one large limb was ~3X Libby's height, which would put it at ~15'. And it was laying next to her. I'd think if someone was trying to conceal bodies, they'd use a LOT more sticks, brush, and leaves to cover them. Not a few oddly placed sticks and one really long limb. To me, it wasn't to camouflage, it had another purpose, but what? JMO

Panicked attempt at concealment that was abandoned when there wasn't enough deadfall at the murder site? JMO

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848856728827531671

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848856021772431781

 

[SouthEnd]

Box cutters/utility knives can come with various sizes and types of blades. Even serrated ones.

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Excellent post re: boxcutters!

Personal experience: I used to do mixed media art. That meant everything from woodwork to building rooms, working with paper, plastic, metal etc. At first I was always trying to take the metal and the thin sheets of wood down to the shop and have it cut, until I discovered boxcutters. I think I spent three years of my life with a boxcutter in my cargo pants pocket anytime I was out and about. It became an extension of my hand (and I never felt safer, but I digress) If you use boxcutters regularly you buy your own blades, included hooked ones or serrated, and the pro-boxcutters easily over extend, longer than my palm or more. Or you can even mod the safety one to overextend quite easily.

JMO and experience. I wouldn't be surprised if a knife-enthusiast had modded the heck out of a boxcutter, you can build your perfect knife out of it.

Edit: that looks like a fancier version of what I had:

 

[otto]

Mine has always been, he had them take their clothes off then for whatever reason he told Abby to put her clothes back on (perhaps she was shivering and crying) she either grabbed or he tossed her some clothes and she dressed herself with whatever she had and then he cut her throat , Libby went hysterical and tried to get away he caught her, cut her throat and she was in motion until she fell to her death. He dragged her back close to Abby so he could try and conceal both bodies. The killer and Libby both were in a frantic frenzy. I think this whole incident happened very fast once he had them across the creek . I do not think he cared or had after thought to dress Abby, I think she dressed herself. Just my theory.

It started at 2:13, and the suspect was walking on the road back to his car at 3:57. From the location of the bodies, he walked up the ravine to get to the road (quite likely cut through the cemetery).

The accused spent roughly one hour and 40 minutes with the girls.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[Dutch77]

The height description is what gets me. It's very obvious as a female when a man is short, there's no way I'm describing a man as tall/taller if he's A. Around the same height as me (I'm 5'7) or B. 5'4 (obviously)...

Likewise. She would be able to tell taller or shorter than her, much more reliable than asking a witness, “what height was that guy over there”

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848812492077617391

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Donnie Burgess, a journalist with @93wibc, has shared via (Twitter)X some updated onsite logistical information from the City of Delphi. This is a great and thoughtful effort to address some of the confusion and disorganization outside the courthouse.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1847997900367782300

Text below for those who cannot view (Twitter)X posts.

—
Donnie Burgess @localguy

A note from #Delphi Mayor Kamron Yates. Mostly logistics information.

"While we are saddened by the reason for the sudden interest and activity in the City, we wish to make everyone's visit to Delphi outside of the Courthouse as safe and enjoyable as possible under the circumstances."
—

The 2-page guidelines are below.

View attachment 539360

View attachment 539361

EBM for typos

Wow!

Impressive!

Lots of thorough effort in planning has been placed in prepping the city for this trial!

I am also impressed that they have planned to have daily meetings to keep on top of challenges as they may occur!

JMO

 

[Melted]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848843651709079714

Wow, you would think the prosecution would of went through her testimony with her, if she introduced the sketches to her testimony I don’t see how they won’t be allowed into evidence

JMO

 

[dub]

Likewise. She would be able to tell taller or shorter than her, much more reliable than asking a witness, “what height was that guy over there”

The height gets me too, but I wonder what the terrain was like at the location when she saw him.

Like, if I’m trying to recall the height of someone that I passed at an earlier time, I’m probably going to be going off what I saw when they were something like 10-20 feet away, not when they were directly next to me.

If that person was slightly uphill, it could make a pretty big difference in my perception, especially because I’d be unlikely to recall the exact terrain/location of the encounter.

 

[BUF]

Next to testify was Betsey Blair, who said she frequently visited the Monon trail in 2016 and 2017, including on Feb. 13, 2017. Her Fitbit, a wearable electronic device, helped her recall how many loops she did on the trail that day. In her third and final loop, she saw a man and later two girls on the trail.

Eventually, she’d called the county sheriff’s office and reported the people she encountered on the trail.

After the grainy image had been released, Blair told jurors, “I recognized him as the one I had seen on the bridge.”

She later added, “I immediately knew when I saw that photo that was the man I saw on the bridge.”

The jury questioned how Blair recognized “bridge guy,” and she said it was his posture and the way he was standing. She also said she could have mistaken the man having a hat on his head for brown “poofy” hair.

The final person to testify Tuesday afternoon was Steve Mullin, an investigator for the Carroll County Prosecutor’s Office. Mullin talked about collecting video from sources in the Delphi Murders case,, and how he determined when and where the videos were taken.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 4 live blog

Day 4 of the Delphi Murders trial will take place at the Carroll County courthouse on Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

www.wishtv.com

 

[MiniMoo]

The height description is what gets me. It's very obvious as a female when a man is short, there's no way I'm describing a man as tall/taller if he's A. Around the same height as me (I'm 5'7) or B. 5'4 (obviously)...

So...

If she is 5.7 ft and Richard Allen is 5.4 ft or 5.5 ft and the male she saw was supposedly taller than her it has to be someone else.

Richard Allen was there that day as he put himself there, but if these heights are anything to go by whoever she saw can't be Richard Allen.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[arielilane]

Delphi Murders trial: Day 4 live blog

Day 4 of the Delphi Murders trial will take place at the Carroll County courthouse on Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

wishtv.com

After the grainy image had been released, Blair told jurors, “I recognized him as the one I had seen on the bridge.”

She later added, “I immediately knew when I saw that photo that was the man I saw on the bridge.”

The jury questioned how Blair recognized “bridge guy,” and she said it was his posture and the way he was standing. She also said she could have mistaken the man having a hat on his head for brown “poofy” hair.

 

[MassGuy]

Likewise. She would be able to tell taller or shorter than her, much more reliable than asking a witness, “what height was that guy over there”

It's odd, but at the same time, Allen admits to seeing three juveniles at around the same time they say they saw him. And it's he who admits to wearing the type of clothing BG was wearing.

I remember we played this game in a criminal justice class in college. The professor was giving class as normal, and someone walked in and asked her a question, and walked out. Quite a while later, she asked us all to write down a description of the man who had entered the room earlier. Heights were wildly off, clothing was wildly off; it was really eye opening. The point being that eye witness identification can be very problematic.

 

[Gemmie]

Oh, same, it’s heartbreaking.

Especially the “timidly.”

Just the notion that she apparently was nervous about his presence and tried to ward it off with a meek “hi.”

I need to have this vicious killer locked up forever. To me that’s RA.

Perhaps she said it timidly because by then she had already seen his gun. It was near the end of that short video clip BG can be seen and heard telling them DTH so it had to have been before that:

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

“See, this is the path. Um, there’s no path there so we have to go down there.”

Twelve seconds later, “bridge guy” says, “Guys.”

Abby can be heard saying “Hi” very timidly.

Then came the line: Bridge guy says, “Down the hill.”

Delphi Murders trial: Day 4 live blog

Day 4 of the Delphi Murders trial will take place at the Carroll County courthouse on Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Kudzuu]

Yup, that makes the most sense based on the context. Unfortunately, that's also the way he wanted them to go.

And that supports he was familiar with the area. Makes me wonder how often he'd been there and if he knew where to take them after the interruption. In other words he had them trapped and under control.
Moo

 

[ClearAhead]

The jury is asking great questions. Seems like they already know which way the wind is blowing.

I’m not sure if this was a question also but FWIW -

Delphi Murders trial: Day 4 live blog

Day 4 of the Delphi Murders trial will take place at the Carroll County courthouse on Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

www.wishtv.com

“Later, Voorheis agreed that the photo of “bridge guy” had “possibly” affected her memory of him as she described him to jurors.”