Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #202

[ClearAhead]

Snipped for clarity.

According to IndyStar, she saw the man covered in mud and blood later.



It's times like this where relying on media notes instead of hearing it straight from the source is problematic. WISH8 makes it sound like SC say the man and the girl dressed in pink at the same time, both at the Mears entrance, while IndyStar says they were separate sightings. Delphi murder trial witness: 'I saw a man covered in mud and blood' walking on road

Thanks for linking the clarification. The prior scramble is what occurs when reporters take hasty notes.

 

[dub]

If this is true, then why wouldn't the defense focus on this? In my mind, this would be a much better "reasonable doubt" argument than throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks....like there must have been someone under the bridge luring them down or they were taken somewhere else the day they went missing. Of course the defense hasn't put on their case yet. The key point to me is whether RA = BG. If you could point to anyone else that could be BG, why wouldn't you?

I know, right?

The only thing I can think of is he eventually came up with an alibi that checked out, and this was never made public.

If that’s the case though it must have been a really good alibi, because a lot of the “odinists” have alibis too and the defense doesn’t seem to care about that.

 

[arielilane]

Its a double rainbow

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848856249695117706

 

[MassGuy]

11:45 A.M.: THE DOCTOR WHO PERFORMED GIRLS’ AUTOPSIES TESTIFIES​

Dr. Roland Kohr, a forensic pathologist based out of Terre Haute, was the state’s 20th witness in the trial. Kohr is semi-retired, and served as the Vigo County coroner for many years. He performed autopsies on Libby German and Abby Williams.

Kohr explained to the jury the steps of an autopsy, which begins with being contacted by investigators and learning about the case, then later performing examinations of the bodies.

The first autopsy was performed on Abby. Kohr noted Abby’s clothing, any physical injuries, and performed a rape kit. He said that Abby had a shallow, 3-inch long incision wound on her neck. Abby showed no signs of blunt force trauma or restraint wounds. He said that though the rape kit showed no “overt injury patterns,” it does not mean that sexual contact didn’t occur.

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wednesday is day 5 of testimonies in the Delphi Murders trial begins at the Carroll County courthouse. Follow our live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849122694295412807

“Says BG was muddy and bloody on his clothesSays blood was on lower legs, feet and anklesSays rest of him was muddy as if he had fallen down a hill or in a muddy creek.”

Finally the muddy and bloody or just plain muddy debate can end. I bet the DT feel a migraine coming on.

JMO

I think they all have a headache coming on.

Unfortunately, her other testimony was lost in the shuffle.
I wonder how many times the jurors can hear that before they wonder what's going on.

added:
Defense asked why she didn’t mention blood in her past statements to law enforcement. She said she did but they did not write it down. She also says it was in her videotaped testimony but that videotape was lost when the DVR was recorded over

 

[shonyakay]

Perhaps if it was them sitting in that defendant’s chair, they’d feel differently. No excuses, just doubt.

We wouldn't be sitting in that defendant's chair because we didn't kill two children after first attempting to sexually assault them.

 

[ClearAhead]

If this is true, then why wouldn't the defense focus on this? In my mind, this would be a much better "reasonable doubt" argument than throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks....like there must have been someone under the bridge luring them down or they were taken somewhere else the day they went missing. Of course the defense hasn't put on their case yet. The key point to me is whether RA = BG. If you could point to anyone else that could be BG, why wouldn't you?

Maybe because that person has a solid alibi? LE have never told us how any of previous POIs were cleared. But just because they never told us, we can’t assume he wasn’t.

The D would be further ahead by continuing to attempt to refute evidence in the traditional way, rather than blaming others.

JMO

 

[justtrish]

Snipped for clarity.

According to IndyStar, she saw the man covered in mud and blood later.



It's times like this where relying on media notes instead of hearing it straight from the source is problematic. WISH8 makes it sound like SC say the man and the girl dressed in pink at the same time, both at the Mears entrance, while IndyStar says they were separate sightings. Delphi murder trial witness: 'I saw a man covered in mud and blood' walking on road

While the updates all day long are nice to have, I think it loses something when the person taking the notes is giving it to someone else to read or make an artcle about. The person writing things up for the news isn't likely the same person sitting in court. Things get lost in translation.

This is why I like listening to the Murder Sheet when they do their entire podcast after court is over. They both sit in during the testimony and take notes and then they both discuss what they heard. They each might write down sligthly differnt things, but when they discuss it we get a better picture of what was actually said vs one line tweets or an article written from someone else's notes. I try to follow the updates all day long and then at night or the next morning I listen to the MS episode and it tends to all make better sense of what actually happened and what was said or how it was said.. was it on direct or cross, was the witness testy or were they straight forward, was it argumentative or just stated as fact, etc.

 

[ClearAhead]

I think they all have a headache coming on.

Unfortunately, her other testimony was lost in the shuffle.
I wonder how many times the jurors can hear that before they wonder what's going on.

The P indicated she saw a muddy bloody man, it was included in the PCA. And the missing recordings were transcribed. If the D didn’t dispose her, that’s their fault. Where did the D get she only said muddy from? Another strike against the FM.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I've been catching up on some recaps from all sides, I like the way the State is laying out their case. The witnesses all claim that despite slight differences (dark blue vs black, etc.) they all were adamant the man they saw was Bridge Guy.

The sketches coming in doesn't worry me in the least if JG lets them in. I've said before, you can take a look at 3 or 4 pictures of RA from different times pre arrest, post arrest, early and later mug shots, he is chameleon like, but the basics are always the same. Especially his cold shark eyes IMO.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

 

[shonyakay]

11:45 A.M.: THE DOCTOR WHO PERFORMED GIRLS’ AUTOPSIES TESTIFIES​

Dr. Roland Kohr, a forensic pathologist based out of Terre Haute, was the state’s 20th witness in the trial. Kohr is semi-retired, and served as the Vigo County coroner for many years. He performed autopsies on Libby German and Abby Williams.

Kohr explained to the jury the steps of an autopsy, which begins with being contacted by investigators and learning about the case, then later performing examinations of the bodies.

The first autopsy was performed on Abby. Kohr noted Abby’s clothing, any physical injuries, and performed a rape kit. He said that Abby had a shallow, 3-inch long incision wound on her neck. Abby showed no signs of blunt force trauma or restraint wounds. He said that though the rape kit showed no “overt injury patterns,” it does not mean that sexual contact didn’t occur.

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wednesday is day 5 of testimonies in the Delphi Murders trial begins at the Carroll County courthouse. Follow our live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

Shallow? I am guessing that means she did suffer for a longer period of time than Libby. So sad.

 

[Trebor5591]

Just was listening to The Murder Sheet and they described what they saw and heard regarding Libby's cellphone video.

The gist of what they say is the video begins with the girls' at the end of the bridge. You can see the bridge, gravel perhaps, grass. The phone goes up at some point and you can see Abby on the bridge. The phone goes back down and then it turns upside down. Then you see Bridge Guy. He is just a small part of the full image. They believe Libby makes a comment that the trail ends here. They hear the word "gun." Abby picks up the pace and runs to the end by Libby. They say Abby sounds frightened and says "freaking me out."

Bridge Guy says, "Guys... (There is a slight pause and they hear a metallic sound) .... Down the hill."
Abby says like, "Huh?"
They seem to start moving and then the video ends.

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Four: The Video

We discuss the fourth day of Richard Allen's trial. We saw the full video that Liberty German recorded on her phone. Support The Murder Sheet by buying a...

murdersheetpodcast.com

So, so sad. When I think of Betsy Blair driving off at that exact minute my heart breaks for the girls'. If only someone could have rescued them.

Does Abby say "huh"? or does she timidly say "hi" as others have posted?

 

[MiniMoo]

If there were three other teen girls' they never came forward. I guess possible but definitely not probable imo.

The little girl that was with the three teen girls' was a young child not even pre teen yet from what I can recall. Given her age, she probably was shorter, and could have been obscured by the older girls'.

Also, the man they seen had his head down and appeared to be walking with a purpose.

It is important to note that in his 2022 statement Richard Allen described one of the teen girls from this group accurately. Tall and with brown or black hair.

RA also said in that interview that he was wearing blue jeans and a blue or black jacket. The same attire that "BG" was wearing according to these particular witnesses.

2022?!?

That is like 5 years after - even 3 weeks to 3 months later details can change as to what was witnessed or remembered by a person.

Is there an account by him written in 2017 or recorded?

Does anyone have anything he said in 2017 as by 2022 his account would not be the same, I feel, compared to February 2017 or close to it.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[shonyakay]

Does Abby say "huh"? or does she timidly say "hi" as others have posted?

According to Aine from The Murder Sheet Abby said, "Huh?"

 

[Seattle1]

Abby's shirt was maroon. Not pink. No one saw Abby, Libby, "BG", or RA on the trails after BB saw the man on platform one and Abby and Libby heading to the bridge around 2:00 p.m.

Photo taken by Libby on 2/13 that I posted in thread #201. I could see why it would be called either pink or maroon.



ETA: add link

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #201'

Oct 22, 2024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848752109744783838

View attachment 539692

In comparison, photo of Abby by Libby on the bridge taken on 2/13:



Photo Credit

ETA: From quoted post, Abby found wearing a black sweatshirt and blue jeans of Libby.

• Seattle1

• 
• 

 

[MassGuy]

Shallow? I am guessing that means she did suffer for a longer period of time than Libby. So sad.

Not necessarily. A shallow wound can still hit an artery and cause rapid blood loss. I’m sure we’ll learn more.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I feel so badly for these girls’ families - someone murdered their loved ones- this trial has got to be so painful- and I’d be frustrated that it’s taken this long -

And as a juror I think I would have a hard time with early evidence/statements disappearing and being expected to take a witness’s testimony about what they said years earlier and was lost or not noted by law enforcement- I think I would get frustrated at how the investigation was handled if it was a consistent pattern throughout a case and might cause reasonable doubt or at least make it harder to come to BARD burden of proof- as an observer I’m frustrated outside looking in -

I just really want a verdict at then end of it all and not a hung jury- moo

 

[joe jones]

Wow, not sure what to make of this testimony.

She "saw a group of people at the Mears entrance, including a man covered in mud and blood and a girl wearing pink who appeared visibly stressed. She said she drove past the man, who did not acknowledge her, but says she later recognized him as “Bridge Guy.” She waited three weeks to report who she saw to police, saying she was afraid."

Who was the girl in pink?

She also says that "the Bridge Guy’s jacket was dark enough to where she wouldn’t have seen blood on it, and but his jeans were light enough to show the mud on them. The jury finished by asking how close she was to Bridge Guy when she saw him at the Mears entrance, to which she answered he was within three feet of the passenger side."

Source: Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wonder who the group of people with BG were, as the word "included" to me means he was standing with that group, and the girl in pink, I hope they have all given statements they could be crucial witnesses

 

[Cedars]

I agree with you, but what we all should really want is the actual TRUTH. Regardless of which verdict that leads us to.

Too many people, on "both sides" are twisting info presented to mean something that favors their side. They need to remember the evidence is neutral.

With respect, truth is not so simple. In any murder trial where someone is pleading not guilty, the 'truth' is not available, because only the actual killer/killers know what happened, and they are concealing it (whether they are the ones on trial or not).

So, the law resorts to probability. A person has to be found guilty 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. ie, high probability, not certainty.

Even DNA evidence is presented in court with a statement about the probability that it belongs to the accused, which is statistically very high. But the experts do not talk about 'truth'.

Also, IMO, this is not about personal belief. IMO, jury members can and do believe a person is guilty, but bring in a verdict of not guilty, because the evidence doesn't meet the standard. IMO, this just occurred in the case of Russell Hill, the most recent trial I followed.

Whether a person is guilty in fact, and whether they are found guilty at trial, are two separate issues.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Let them introduce it. And just wait until the prosecution has a chance to do a rebuttal. The cross-exam will be absolutely brutal and make the defense look like fools. JMO

It wouldn't take much for the D to look foolish...again and again and again. MOO