Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #202

[photographer4]

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 | 'Bridge Guy' sighting, autopsy photos, and digital forensics

Day 5 of the Delphi Murders trial included testimony from a witness who claims to have seen "Bridge Guy" on the day Abby Williams and Libby German went missing.

www.wrtv.com

10/23/24

The autopsy revealed Williams had a five to six-centimeter-long wound (approximately 2 inches long) on the left side of her neck, however, Dr. Kohr said it was not a deep cut, "only an inch deep" in the doctor's words. He stated there was some skin damage to the right side which he believes suggests the cut was made from right to left.

[..]

Dr. Kohr testified he did not see any crime scene photos until this year, which was after his reports had been issued.

The doctor could not determine the exact type of weapon used or the length of the blade, but he said "anything from a pocketknife to a kitchen knife to Abby. (There is) no way to tell if it was right or left-handed."

Why was he shown crime scene photos at all? Is this standard practice in most murder cases to show crime scene photo to the autopsy person just before trial? I am a new trial follower so this is not an opinion, it’s a question! Ty in advance.

 

[MassGuy]

Was this given as testimony the other day? The ground saturation part.

I must have missed it.

Humans have around 7 litres of blood, the amount described on their body and the tree was visible, but not huge amounts.

Yes. “Saturated” is the word we heard over and over. Almost all of that blood would have seeped into the ground. It’s not like it’s going to pool on that surface.

You have spraying arterial wounds, which is how blood would have gotten on the tree.

If they were killed elsewhere, that wouldn’t have happened. Of course there are other major issues with such a scenario.

 

[JAY CLUCK]

Yeah, I'm a gardener, too. It takes a LOT of saturation before water will just pool on the surface. Blood is mostly water.

MOO

I dunno. Floodplain next to the creek in a gulley would already be dense with water. Not dry garden soil. Blood is thicker than water. It should run a ton before absorbing. But whatever just thinking out loud.

To be clear I just think it’s all Ls blood and As is in the creek.

 

[photographer4]

We don't know when the devices were purchased, but logically, most of them would probably be before the crime. The only one that is conspicuously missing (that we know of) is the phone he would have had on him during the murder. No clue if the jurors asked him about the dates of those devices, but we're only getting a fraction of the information here so who knows.

So the missing device is an interesting nugget, and the expert on the stand also said that the only connection they could find to Libby or Abby is internet searches. We heard nothing further about that, as it's likely beyond his purview, but that's something I think could play a major role here, depending on the timing, frequency, and specificity of those searches.

Out of curiosity, did we get testimony today as to when the devices they did find were from? Eg a year of manufacturing or sales receipts or anything to show when they entered his possession? Are we sure they’re all his? Could some have been his wife’s or daughters? Questions, not opinion - I have a million tonight so thanks in advance!

 

[rez125]

Exactly. Just like when you water a plant. Seems very basic to me.

Except blood isn't water and after a time it starts to get very goopy and thick.

Just wondering how easily it seeps into the ground when in that goopy state.

 

[twall]

Did SC say what color of footwear the bloody/muddy man she saw had on? Must have been light color to see blood. In the BG image his footwear looks dark. JMO

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Unfortunately, if something more significant existed at the time of his arrest it would have been in the probable cause affidavit. The reason for the arrest years later is that an early interview with him was misfiled. When they found it, they realized they had someone they needed to follow up with, as he admitted to being there that day. A follow-up interview led to Allen revealing more information, to include the fact that he was dressed like BG that day. That, coupled with the timeline provided by Allen and witnesses, led to the search warrant that resulted in the gun being found that matched the unspent round.

So we have that, likely information developed after his arrest that we are not aware of, and the dozens of confessions.

That round is likely as close to a smoking gun as we are going to get, and it's something that is going to be hotly disputed.

How many mistakes has LE made in this case? Lost records, destroyed DVD evidence, incomplete documentation, inconclusive post mortem rape test results, and misfiling? What else has been compromised by this investigation, that we don’t know about yet?
I wonder how common it is for first time murderers to stop by the police department to let them know that they were at the scene of the crime they committed and admit to the clothes they wore that day. Blue jeans and a dark jacket would be a pretty common outfit that people from that area would wear on a mild day while taking a walk in the park. This whole thing seems just a little too convenient for a police department that has been unsuccessful for seven years in solving a brutal crime although they had a sketch, a voice and a video recording of a possible suspect with the victims. IMO

 

[MassGuy]

Out of curiosity, did we get testimony today as to when the devices they did find were from? Eg a year of manufacturing or sales receipts or anything to show when they entered his possession? Are we sure they’re all his? Could some have been his wife’s or daughters? Questions, not opinion - I have a million tonight so thanks in advance!

It’s possible but I doubt it.

They likely would have seized other devices in the home as well, as he could potentially have used ones that didn’t belong to him (wife’s).

So all 23 may not be his.

 

[photographer4]

This crime scene makes no sense to me. The doctor testified that it would have taken Abby 5-10 minutes to die from her wound and she “definitely” would have had time to respond. Yet there is no blood on her hands when a natural response would be to grab the wound and all of her blood was pooled in one location. They said no blunt force trauma so she wasn’t knocked unconscious beforehand.

The only way this makes sense is she was tied up.

Moo

Drugged? I can’t help but notice no mention of toxicology reports in today’s testimony. Maybe we will get this at some other point? This one is moo.

 

[photographer4]

Also, the river is right there.

Have we had any testimony to suggest the killer washed off in the creek? Eg. Blood trails, blood or footprint markings? Not moo. It’s a question. Ty.

 

[SleutherGirl]

Drugged? I can’t help but notice no mention of toxicology reports in today’s testimony. Maybe we will get this at some other point? This one is moo.

But how would he drug them? They are hardly going to swallow a pill and if there were needle marks, they would have been mentioned, surely?

 

[iamshadow21]

I dunno. Floodplain next to the creek in a gulley would already be dense with water. Not dry garden soil. Blood is thicker than water. It should run a ton before absorbing. But whatever just thinking out loud.

To be clear I just think it’s all Ls blood and As is in the creek.

It was a steep slope.

Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #201

If they were on that slope, it would be drier soil than down the bottom at the creekbed.

MOO

 

[Vern]

As for LE not being able to locate the snapchat photo of Abby on the Bridge, here we have DM's published image on 2/20/2017 carrying the snapchat watermark so perhaps it's something that was damaged when extracted. I don't think we know when FBI became involved to assist with electronics.

Post in thread 'IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION #2'

Oct 23, 2024

Libby posted these Snapchat photos of Abigail at Monon High Bridge Trail close to when they started hiking around 2.07pm Monday. They are the last photos of the girl

Hundreds pay respects as murdered Indiana girls are laid to rest

Hundreds gathered to pay their last respects to Libby German and Abby Williams, the two girls found dead near a hiking trail in Indiana on Sunday, as the public were told not to point fingers.

www.dailymail.co.uk

• Seattle1

• 

Indeed. From the early days this crime was known as "The Snapchat Murders". I just loooked back and found videos 6+ years old covering this case at the time.

 

[dkaras]

I was thinking 23 devices is a lot, but maybe not if some of them are dinosaurs or not new.

I wonder how relevant or not they have become in regards to this crime.

JMO MOO JMT

Well, I'm also wondering now what is being considered as 'devices' ... phones, tablets for sure. Laptops? iTunes (what are those called lol... iPods! Sorry ), fitness devices...smart TVs? That could all add up if we're being technical.

So, thinking back, myself and my ex, 2 kids. 4 phones for sure. Tablets, 2 of us but could be 4 in a different family. 2 or more iPods. Then we replace phones/tablets every year or two depending on your cell service specials. So 4 phones make 8 in a few years time. We never traded them in. A fitbit. (I have a Fitbit I'm wearing plus my two previous sitting in a drawer...what do I do with them??). I could see it adding up to 23 in several years depending on what they're looking at. I probably have 15 "devices" in my house currently, old and current, depending on what counts as a "device". I can see it.

More curious about devices active during the timeframe of the crime. That IMO tells a story. If some are missing, then why? Is RA's phone missing (sounds like it wasn't recovered), but for example his wife's from that timeframe is there? Why? ...is my question.

 

[Web_Sleuth]

This makes me sick to write - but the abrasion on Abby’s chin, it’s not sticky like tape but a red abrasion I believe. Possibly a goatee rubbing, especially if it was a short stubbly kind? If he was close to her to cut her, he was close enough to kiss. Ugh.

Edit to add: or a rough glove to hold her still?

Just thinking aloud. JMO

 

[MiniMoo]

I’m not sure it required experience. RA was entirely familiar with the trails so he’d be aware of sight lines and the physical features of the area. Coward he was, he chose children as his victims allegedly threatening them with a gun knowing there’d be a high likelihood they’d be compliant, then viciously slaughtered them. Had he been experienced he probably would’ve chosen a less public spot, kept his mouth shut and never would’ve been arrested. JMO

It is a good thing he has a panel of jurors to decide his fate that is for sure.

All we need is concrete evidence from the State or the Defense to create enough reasonable doubt.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Arkay]

Except blood isn't water and after a time it starts to get very goopy and thick.

Just wondering how easily it seeps into the ground when in that goopy state.

Right. Blood is not water and does thicken after awhile.

However, these two young girls did not die by slowly losing blood that was dripping away.

Their throats were slashed. Jugular, carotid—-for the 5-10 minutes that they may have lived, a great proportion of their blood would have spurted and gushed out.

Gravity and permeability would have caused that gushing blood to soak the ground like a sponge.

When they were deceased, a smaller quantity of blood may have dripped down.

It’s my opinion, based on the crime scene reports, and based on experts already having said that the ground was saturated——there was not enough blood left to congeal, after a day and a half that they lay there, dying and dead.

 

[iamshadow21]

This makes me sick to write - but the abrasion on Abby’s chin, it’s not sticky like tape but a red abrasion I believe. Possibly a goatee rubbing, especially if it was a short stubbly kind? If he was close to her to cut her, he was close enough to kiss. Ugh.

Just thinking aloud. JMO

Sounds like it was linear. Beard burn is more general, I think.

MOO

 

[rez125]

This makes me sick to write - but the abrasion on Abby’s chin, it’s not sticky like tape but a red abrasion I believe. Possibly a goatee rubbing, especially if it was a short stubbly kind? If he was close to her to cut her, he was close enough to kiss. Ugh.

Just thinking aloud. JMO

If you're referring to "pash rash" you need to be doing it for a while to get any "marks" and it's not instant, the skin can take days to get red and peely.

 

[photographer4]

But how would he drug them? They are hardly going to swallow a pill and if there were needle marks, they would have been mentioned, surely?

I really don’t know the answer. Are needle marks visible post mortem? What about having them drink a drink with something in it? Or a rag over mouth with a substance soaked into it? Questions again, not opinions. Ty.