Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[misantha]

I saw it reported that there were a flurry of orders issued. It looks like one related to sketches. It is my understanding sketches are still out even though the testimony of BB referenced them. Also it looked like there was a stipulation of chain of custody for items collected at the crime scene. I assume this includes the cartridge. Is that correct?

 

[Bethan]

Wow!

WOW INDEED!!

 

[BexLuth0r]

I wonder if he didn't replace the jacket with an exact one of the same. I imagine they're super common and if it was replaced then there would be no evidence anywhere.

That’s the exact opposite reaction he should have. Hell, even guilty people are combative and deny it.

It’s a sign he had given up, and knew it was over. Confessions are a lot like that too…

This is super interesting. Wow

 

[m00c0w]

I saw it reported that there were a flurry of orders issued. It looks like one related to sketches. It is my understanding sketches are still out even though the testimony of BB referenced them. Also it looked like there was a stipulation of chain of custody for items collected at the crime scene. I assume this includes the cartridge. Is that correct?

Yes, all evidence from the crime scene and search warrant, among other things.

 

[WildHuncher]

Two dozen box cutters!?? Does he keep losing them?

 

[Bbgiraffe]

It's fantastic watching the story unfold!

Prosecution has been factually establishing that an unknown person nicknamed "bridge guy" confronted the girls, and forced them to go under the bridge with some evidence of using a gun. The girls were found brutally murdered a short distance from where they met bridge guy. Libby's phone was inactive from the moment of meeting bridge guy onward.

Someone resembling bridge guy was seen by witnesses prior to the kidnapping at 2:15 p.m., but not afterward. A man resembling bridge guy was seen walking on the road near the Monon Bridge Trail parking lot at 3:57 p.m. He appeared to be dirty with mud or blood. There's a strong link between bridge guy and the murders.

Next, introduce Richard Allen. He approached police, on advice from his wife, to self-report that he was at the Monon Bridge trail from 1:30-3:30 p.m. That corresponds perfectly with the time of the abduction.

I suppose over the next couple of days we will see the weaving that is required to assert that bridge guy is Richard Allen. Can't wait!

I like how they're really putting the dots close together and leading us through their investigation, how they found RA and I'm looking forward to hearing what else comes out now that they've shifted from BG to RA is BG.

 

[Spartygirl]

I'm wondering if this must be what the tip narrative is about for February 16th, 2017.

Seems like they may have just simply crossed each other's paths that day and Richard Allen complied by giving different forms of ID to verify himself.

Standard procedure maybe.

What is interesting to me as that he did this after the release of those images from LE not before.

JMO MOO JMT

Of interest to me is that LE only asked for this person to come forward so they can speak to him.
they did not say as a POI or suspect (yet) so he felt he was safe to talk to them.

And yet he did NOT see another guy, but described himself as same clothing, same time and put himself there at the bridge !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[iamshadow21]

Two dozen box cutters!?? Does he keep losing them?

It does seem an excessive amount for one person. We have maybe half a dozen maximum, and my late stepfather, bless him, would buy a new tool whenever he couldn't find one, then find the original one, hence having so many. He also went through phones at a rate of knots, but even he didn't have as many as RA may have had.

MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

I thought the exact same as you.

I think this jury is fire!

I think the jury is putting this all together, bit by bit, in a thoughtful, serious way. They are not expecting "bombshell!" information like those of us who have followed the case for years are. Everything is new to them and they seem to be taking the pieces and putting them together.

jmo

 

[EllaMinnowP]

He did not record the interview, but took notes on the back of the lead sheet.

Dulin said he incorrectly wrote the “Farm Bureau” building in his report. But, based on the conversation with Allen about which building it was, he’s confident it’s the old DCS building.

That’s where the Farm Bureau thing came from.

 

[MiniMoo]

Coats, including a blue jacket, also were photographed.

Some items, including two dozen box-cutter knives, were taken to a state police post.

Vito, in response a question from defense attorney Jennifer Auger, said he was not aware of any connections to the murdered girls, Abby Williams and Libby German, from the blue jacket, his car, or the knives.

Next to testify was Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman. He supervised the search of Allen’s home on Oct. 13, 2022.

At one point while Holeman and Allen were in the car, the lieutenant asked if Allen wanted to fill out a form for items damaged in the search. Holeman said Allen responded, “It doesn’t matter. It’s over.”

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wishtv.com

BBM
Thanks for this - wow!

So, no connection with the knives, blue coat or the car and no mention of the box-cutter knives - maybe box-cutter knives come under knives perhaps.

And am I right in understanding that this blue coat is meant to be the one he wore that day to the trail or has this never been verified.

Seems there is no connection found with the blue coat.

As for Holeman and: "It doesn't matter. It's over."

If he recorded it - it would be insightful to see the full context of how those words were used and why.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Yemelyan]

This is FOX 59's account of the state troopers' testimony (Vido and Holeman) at the end of the day:

State Trooper Dave Vido and ISP Lt. Jerry Holeman were the last to take the stand on Thursday. Both gave further testimony about the search of Allen’s home.

Allen reportedly owned “lots of knives,” according to Vido, along with boxcutters. More than 10 phones were seized from Allen’s home but, again, police noted the phone Allen possessed in February 2017 was not found.

Vido also mentioned the .40 caliber round being found in a “keepsake box” in Allen’s home. He also told jurors how a metal detector was used to search Allen’s yard.

Holeman recounted telling Allen about how he shouldn’t worry about any damage done to his home during the search because Allen could fill out a form and have it all repaired.

Holeman claims Allen responded by saying, “why bother, it’s all over.” Holeman claimed Allen repeated this line when later asked if he wanted to be taken to see his wife. It should be noted that Richard Allen was already told prior to the search of his home that he was a suspect in the girls’ murders.

Defense attorneys finished the day by pushing back against Holeman’s story by stating there were no recordings of Allen telling the state trooper, “why bother, it’s all over” and the jury only had to take the state trooper’s word for it being said.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-misfiled-report-from-2017-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

 

[twall]

At 2:08 p.m. the state called Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett to the stand. Liggett tells the jury he was a detective in Feb. 2017.

Liggett tells the jury that when the tip came in from Kathy Shank’s lead, he wasn’t aware anyone had seen the witnesses on the trail, and that he thought that person could be bridge guy.

Liggett tells the jury about the process of altering the video on Libby’s phone. Liggett says the bridge guy video was “altered to be upright all the time.”

The prosecution shows the video to the jury again. Liggett describes what he hears in the video in the following way:

Abby: “Is he right here? Don’t leave me up here.”

Libby: “This is the path, that be a gun, there’s no path here.”

Bridge Guy: “Guys”

Girls: “Hi”

Bridge Guy: “Down the hill.”

Source: Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Curious why what the girls say in the recording changed? I thought the entire video was played the other day in court and none of this was stated what they said except the reference to the path ending.

 

[photographer4]

Wow.

So no trophies at RA home apparently.

I admit that I have been expecting big evidence that we've never heard about. Maybe all the P has is already what we know...and so far that wouldn't be enough for me to convict. The confessions would have to be rock solid. What else is there, if the unspent round can be debunked?

It troubles me that they had nothing but him saying he had been on the bridge that day and then YEARS later decided that he HAD to be the guy who killed those kids. It almost feels like they did whatever they could to get a search warrant and then got perhaps lucky that they found a bullet. They then tossed him in PRISON without benefit of legal counsel initially! Then probably got lucky his mental health went south and he "confessed". I'm not a fan of the case by the State yet. The witnesses have not even described RA imo... I keep an open mind, but it is scary to think that the State could do this to someone and that someone in question could well be innocent!! MOOOOO.

 

[Spartygirl]

I always thought that people who intentionally back into parking spaces were monsters, anyways.

Bunch of showoffs making the rest of us look bad.

Perhaps not a monster but definitely a show off LOL

The struggle is real, for me, to back into a parking spot, even backing up my driveway.
I've had an audience before during a snow and ice storm as our driveway goes up hill so I provided entertainment to the neighbors while trying to back up the slippery driveway.

But I am still challenged without the ice and snow LOL

But my point is that most people that are comfortable backing up, usually do so as a habit, so for RA's vehicle to be backed up at the old CPS building also matches that he backs up in work (CVS) parking lot is a habit.

 

[Inthedetails]

This is FOX 59's account of the state troopers' testimony (Vido and Holeman) at the end of the day:

State Trooper Dave Vido and ISP Lt. Jerry Holeman were the last to take the stand on Thursday. Both gave further testimony about the search of Allen’s home.

Allen reportedly owned “lots of knives,” according to Vido, along with boxcutters. More than 10 phones were seized from Allen’s home but, again, police noted the phone Allen possessed in February 2017 was not found.

Vido also mentioned the .40 caliber round being found in a “keepsake box” in Allen’s home. He also told jurors how a metal detector was used to search Allen’s yard.

Holeman recounted telling Allen about how he shouldn’t worry about any damage done to his home during the search because Allen could fill out a form and have it all repaired.

Holeman claims Allen responded by saying, “why bother, it’s all over.” Holeman claimed Allen repeated this line when later asked if he wanted to be taken to see his wife. It should be noted that Richard Allen was already told prior to the search of his home that he was a suspect in the girls’ murders.

Defense attorneys finished the day by pushing back against Holeman’s story by stating there were no recordings of Allen telling the state trooper, “why bother, it’s all over” and the jury only had to take the state trooper’s word for it being said.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-misfiled-report-from-2017-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

That dejected "it's all over" comment is very telling to me. An innocent wouldn't give up like that, in an instant and right from the start. My opinion.

jmopinion

 

[MiniMoo]

Of interest to me is that LE only asked for this person to come forward so they can speak to him.
they did not say as a POI or suspect (yet) so he felt he was safe to talk to them.

And yet he did NOT see another guy, but described himself as same clothing, same time and put himself there at the bridge !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But he never did it prior to the release of those images.

Why would anyone, if guilty knowing images existed, volunteer information that they were at the crime location that day.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Inthedetails]

It troubles me that they had nothing but him saying he had been on the bridge that day and then YEARS later decided that he HAD to be the guy who killed those kids. It almost feels like they did whatever they could to get a search warrant and then got perhaps lucky that they found a bullet. They then tossed him in PRISON without benefit of legal counsel initially! Then probably got lucky his mental health went south and he "confessed". I'm not a fan of the case by the State yet. The witnesses have not even described RA imo... I keep an open mind, but it is scary to think that the State could do this to someone and that someone in question could well be innocent!! MOOOOO.

I think RA = BG = murderer.

But I am also disturbed and concerned about RA being put in prison before conviction.

jmo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Ok, so the fact that the round in the keepsake box was the same brand as the one found at the scene, is obviously interesting. I figured it was just another round of the same caliber, of the (different) brand found in his weapon, and in magazines.

The items missing from the scene are a sock and pair of underwear.


When Liggett was asked about the search of Allen’s home, he described finding the Sig Sauer .40 caliber pistol in a nightstand. This is the pistol that investigators claim ejected the unspent cartridge that was found next to the girls’ bodies. The defense team has argued against the tool marking science that investigators say links the gun to the unspent round.

Liggett also said another .40 caliber round — the same brand as the one found at the crime scene — was found in a “keepsake box” on a dresser in Allen’s home.

Also found during the search of Allen’s home was a blue Carhartt jacket.

-During testimony on Thursday, it was also revealed that some of the girls’ clothing was missing from the crime scene: a sock and a pair of underwear. That clothing still is missing to this day.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-misfiled-report-from-2017-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

I think LE finding a round that's the same brand as the one recovered at the crime scene is important. At the minimum it shows us that RA purchased that brand and may have preferred it over other brands. If it's the same loading, it's even more important as evidence.

There's multiple ammo manufactures and those manufactures make different .40 caliber cartridges with different bullets, case material and powder. A quick check on Ammunition Depots website shows over 20 manufactures with many more different loading's. JMO.

Thanks for the link @MassGuy.

https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/311-40-sw

 

[m00c0w]

BBM
Thanks for this - wow!

So, no connection with the knives, blue coat or the car and no mention of the box-cutter knives - maybe box-cutter knives come under knives perhaps.

And am I right in understanding that this blue coat is meant to be the one he wore that day to the trail or has this never been verified.

Seems there is no connection found with the blue coat.

As for Holeman and: "It doesn't matter. It's over."

If he recorded it - it would be insightful to see the full context of how those words were used and why.

JMO MOO JMT

The blue coat was just a blue coat. They took it as part of the search warrant, in case it had relevance. There’s no guarantee it was or was not the coat RA wore to the trails 5 years prior.

JMO