Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[Boxer]

This woman deserves a badge.

Definitely.

 

[Spartygirl]

But he never did it prior to the release of those images.

Why would anyone, if guilty knowing images existed, volunteer information that they were at the crime location that day.

JMO MOO JMT

Exactly !!
Why would they, but yet RA did

 

[m00c0w]

So far I haven't seen any witness in the trial point out that BG is RA or RA is BG so it is hard to say who was seen that day or not.

If I knew images existed out there of me on the news and what have you I would be keeping a low profile.

With this trial, however, it is still early days yet.

JMO MOO JMT

Richard Allen said he was seen by three girls.

The question posed was why would he come forward if he knew there was video. Because he knew he had been seen. By the three girls he mentioned. He had no idea if they recognized him or not. Their actual recognition of him has little bearing on it. If they did recognize him, which he had no way of knowing either way at the time, it would look pretty bad if he did not come forward.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

What! Okay, so the Carhartt jacket found at RA's home did not link to the crime scene...
Is there more than one Carhartt jacket owned by RA?
Will there be more about this jacket during trial tomorrow?

Re: Sheriff Liggett testimony:

Also found during the search of Allen’s home was a blue Carhartt jacket.


During cross-examination, Allen’s attorneys asked Liggett point-blank if any items sent to the lab, such as the blue Carhartt jacket taken from Allen’s home, were found to have DNA evidence linking Allen to the crime scene.

Liggett said, “no.”

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-misfiled-report-from-2017-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

 

[Seattle1]

23 phones or 23 devices?

Devices. More than 10 phones were seized from Allen’s home but, again, police noted the phone Allen possessed in February 2017 was not found.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-misfiled-report-from-2017-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

 

[photographer4]

That's not at all how it went down. They had him saying he was on the bridge, and didn't DISCOVER they had that until YEARS later.

Once they did discover that, they conducted a follow up interview that gave them the probable cause to get a search warrant. They believed those girls had seen BG, he said he had seen the same girls, and was dressed like BG. That made it probable that BG and RA were one in the same.

That's enough to get a search warrant, and ultimately "why bother, it's all over." It's sure starting to look that way.

I am keeping an open mind... as of right now though, I could see this going either way. moooo

 

[steeltowngirl]

On 2/16/2017 RA didn't know they had a video or his voice on that video.

think Allen saw the photo, and was trying to get ahead of it.

Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when RA seen that image for the first time.

he said 'If this image was taken with the girls' camera, there's no way it could be me."

Finally caught up and want to thank everyone for all the excellent reporting. The quotes above are fantastic.

And a shout out to Libby, the hero who was behind the camera!

 

[MassGuy]

What! Okay, so the Carhartt jacket found at RA's home did not link to the crime scene...
Is there more than one Carhartt jacket owned by RA?
Will there be more about this jacket during trial tomorrow?

Re: Sheriff Liggett testimony:

Also found during the search of Allen’s home was a blue Carhartt jacket.


During cross-examination, Allen’s attorneys asked Liggett point-blank if any items sent to the lab, such as the blue Carhartt jacket taken from Allen’s home, were found to have DNA evidence linking Allen to the crime scene.

Liggett said, “no.”

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-misfiled-report-from-2017-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

I don’t think there’s going to be more. It appears it was tested, and they struck out.

A lot of evidence can disappear in 5 years.

 

[MiniMoo]

Exactly !!
Why would they, but yet RA did

As I see it, until proven differently, he volunteered information only he didn't do it as an admission of guilt.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Boxer]

Richard Allen said he was seen by three girls.

The question posed was why would he come forward if he knew there was video. Because he knew he had been seen. By the three girls he mentioned. He had no idea if they recognized him or not. Their actual recognition of him has little bearing on it. If they did recognize him, which he had no way of knowing either way at the time, it would look pretty bad if he did not come forward.

JMO

He recognized them from Rite Aid and presumed they recognized him.

 

[al66pine]

WITNESS TESTIMONY. RELIABILITY?
@joejones
Below are posts from our earlier exchange.

The first ¶ on Page 9 of this link confirms the content of the preliminary Jury Instructions Judge Gull read in court, to instruct on how the jury is to assess witness testimony.

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/24/Jury-instructions-1.pdf

Before the jury begins deliberating, Judge Gull is to read them aloud again and to provide a copy to each juror.

Sorry I got distracted yesterday from finding the exact language myself.

==========================================
WITNESS TESTIMONY. RELIABILITY?
Post 1126 by @joe jones on previous thread:
"Pity the state doesn't tell the jury eyewitness testimony is inherently unreliable then."

@joe jones IDK if ^ post is merely sarcastic.
If not, then ---
Respectfully, IN. law* requires IN. JUDGES to instruct the jury as to "the credibility of witnesses and the manner of weighing the testimony to be received."
Judges are obligated to instruct the jury TWO TIMES on these points:
- First, before prosecutor starts to present the state's case i.e., "PRELIMINARY Instructions" below and
- Again, either just before or after closing arguments, i.e., "FINAL Instructions" below.
....
JUDGES give instructions to juries about witness credibility and weighing the evidence, among other matters. In Indiana, both by reading them ALOUD and by providing them to jury in WRITING.

 

[Web_Sleuth]

The more that comes out about how RA reacted to various points of being investigated the more convinced I become that they have the right man. He seems to swing wildly back and forth between insisting he has nothing to do with this, almost disassociating completely from his (whether you think he is guilty or not) undeniably close proximity to the murders and a very defeated, helpless to control himself, I-deserve-everything-that-happens-to-me mindset. Almost like he feels like he can’t control what he says at points. Somebody who feels helpless in the face of their impulses and prone to extreme emotional highs and lows is exactly the kind of person that makes sense to have killed Abby and Libby given from what we know of the very violent, seemingly chaotic and somewhat perplexing (i.e the sticks + redressing of Abby) crime scene. JMO of course

I have been wondering something similar - wouldn’t we think some of that would come out to family, friends and co-workers?

IMO

 

[Yemelyan]

I’m curious what “keepsake box” means here. In my house I have some cute boxes that could be called keepsake boxes but they’re actually “put it in there because I don’t know what else to do with it right now” boxes.

I want to hear more about it too. It was described as having an "ornate top" and that inside the box was not just the bullet but a letter from RA's mom and some photos.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

What! Okay, so the Carhartt jacket found at RA's home did not link to the crime scene...
Is there more than one Carhartt jacket owned by RA?
Will there be more about this jacket during trial tomorrow?

Re: Sheriff Liggett testimony:

Also found during the search of Allen’s home was a blue Carhartt jacket.


During cross-examination, Allen’s attorneys asked Liggett point-blank if any items sent to the lab, such as the blue Carhartt jacket taken from Allen’s home, were found to have DNA evidence linking Allen to the crime scene.

Liggett said, “no.”

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-misfiled-report-from-2017-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

There's no reason why RA could not have brought more than one Carhartt jacket. He may have gotten rid of the one with blood evidence on it and bought a new one in the same color. JMO,

 

[Deleted member 296739]

That's not at all how it went down. They had him saying he was on the bridge, and didn't DISCOVER they had that until YEARS later.

If DD gave the report from his 2017 interview to detectives- within days of the murders- they had the information from the beginning- before 50,000 bits of information and databases of leads- and countless boxes- they shouldn’t have had to discover it years later - if it had been properly documented and followed up upon- in my opinion

how it wasn’t flagged earlier or escalated to the right people for follow up is rather mind boggling for me- along with how it was marked cleared with the wrong name after he gave his drivers license

it appears that there wouldn’t have been 5 years worth of investigative information and data if things had been handled differently in the beginning- just my opinion and I’m probably missing something obvious-

 

[MiniMoo]

Richard Allen said he was seen by three girls.

The question posed was why would he come forward if he knew there was video. Because he knew he had been seen. By the three girls he mentioned. He had no idea if they recognized him or not. Their actual recognition of him has little bearing on it. If they did recognize him, which he had no way of knowing either way at the time, it would look pretty bad if he did not come forward.

JMO

I believe be did see three girls, but the girls you speak of were a party of 4 and this is in The Franks or PCA, also, it is in the timeline provided by a member on here that I believe is pinned somewhere.

They may all have seen someone else that day.

As this trial progresses we will get more insight and further answers I'm sure.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[otto]

Richard Allen said he was seen by three girls.

The question posed was why would he come forward if he knew there was video. Because he knew he had been seen. By the three girls he mentioned. He had no idea if they recognized him or not. Their actual recognition of him has little bearing on it. If they did recognize him, which he had no way of knowing either way at the time, it would look pretty bad if he did not come forward.

JMO

It reminds me of Scott Peterson. Everyone asked why he placed himself at the exact location where his wife's body was found. The reason was that he thought that someone saw him at the marina, so he admitted being there, but denied putting her body there.

Similarly, Richard Allen admits that he was at the exact location where the girls were kidnapped, at the exact time that they were kidnapped, because he knew that there was footage of him being there. He then added that he did not kidnap them. If anyone told him that he looked like "bridge guy" he could easily answer that he spoke to police and was cleared.

It's claimed that it is a coincidence that the accused is in the exact location at the exact time as the time of the murders.

 

[iamshadow21]

There's no reason why RA could not have brought more than one Carhartt jacket. He may have gotten rid of the one with blood evidence on it and bought a new one in the same color. JMO,

Or maybe he had a couple or a few, and one just never got put back in the wardrobe after February 2017. If you have more than one of something, it's probably easier for a family member not to notice if something goes missing. If it was his only coat, and one day it's gone and he's wearing a brand new one, that would be more likely to be noticed.

MOO

 

[Web_Sleuth]

AB is live now after todays court session for anyone who wants to listen in…

 

[Peppery]

How long after the “doesn’t matter, it’s over” conversation was RA arrested?

Moo, I’m thinking his plan for the keepsake bullet was to use it on himself if he thought LE was on to him but he never got the chance. It would connect him to the girls forever, even if no one else knew.