Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[FrostedGlass]

I’d imagine there will be testimony explaining the rational behind the safekeeping order.

MOO
Maybe but, if you're an Indiana resident and have ever had a family member arrested, that's going to be a scary thing,

They are probably going to have to explain why he was finally released from prison.

 

[MiniMoo]

Are there anymore updates from today's trial as well as any riveting information worthy of discussion?!

 

[Cedars]

That's not at all how it went down. They had him saying he was on the bridge, and didn't DISCOVER they had that until YEARS later.

Once they did discover that, they conducted a follow up interview that gave them the probable cause to get a search warrant. They believed those girls had seen BG, he said he had seen the same girls, and was dressed like BG. That made it probable that BG and RA were one in the same.

That's enough to get a search warrant, and ultimately "why bother, it's all over." It's sure starting to look that way.

I agree.

As before, Prosecution are telling the jury the story of the investigation, step by step.

So the story at this point is 'how we finally learned about Richard Allen and why we arrested him'.

Which is not 'we were stymied, so we looked for a patsy, and picked him, and then manufacturered a bunch of false witnesses and an imaginery timeline, and planted a bullet, and otherwise conspired to convict him.'

At this stage, the jury doesn't need to believe RA was BG, but they need to believe it's perfectly reasonable that LE would suspect and arrest and charge him.

JMO

 

[Tricia]

The new Websleuth poll for today is up.
CLICK HERE to participate. You can vote once a day.
We'll put up a new poll daily at the end of court.
At the end of court on 10/24/24 the results are,
Guilty 68.1%
Not Guilty 9.4%
I Don't Know 22.5%

 

[Spartygirl]

So far, there is no way to tie that round to the murders. I’m pretty skeptical that they’ll be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it “matches” a particular gun.

They haven't even had the gun experts on witness stand yet.

We shall wait and see

 

[mom2chloe]

So many little circumstantial details are jamming RA up.

I think the defence know if the Jury believe the murders happened at 2.30 he is toast. They need one person to at least half believe what they are selling. Someone who won't be too logical.

IMO

Sounds like KK may be perfect in this regard.

 

[MassGuy]

If DD gave the report from his 2017 interview to detectives- within days of the murders- they had the information from the beginning- before 50,000 bits of information and databases of leads- and countless boxes- they shouldn’t have had to discover it years later - if it had been properly documented and followed up upon- in my opinion

how it wasn’t flagged earlier or escalated to the right people for follow up is rather mind boggling for me- along with how it was marked cleared with the wrong name after he gave his drivers license

it appears that there wouldn’t have been 5 years worth of investigative information and data if things had been handled differently in the beginning- just my opinion and I’m probably missing something obvious-

Yes, it’s absolutely true that had they realized they had that interview from the get-go, this case would have been adjudicated years ago.

My point is that they didn’t intentionally sit on this information, and decide to go after this guy years later.

That’s a huge distinction.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

I’m curious what “keepsake box” means here. In my house I have some cute boxes that could be called keepsake boxes but they’re actually “put it in there because I don’t know what else to do with it right now” boxes.

It said there was a letter from his mother to him and some photos in the box. Seems like a typical keepsake box you put things sentimental or important to you. The bullet found in the box was probably a sentimental item to Richard Allen. MOO

 

[arielilane]

I don’t think there’s going to be more. It appears it was tested, and they struck out.

A lot of evidence can disappear in 5 years.

I know DNA can break down over time but not founding any DNA evidence linking Allen to the crime scene seems off, imo.
It would be interesting to know how they stored the jacket.

There's no reason why RA could not have brought more than one Carhartt jacket. He may have gotten rid of the one with blood evidence on it and bought a new one in the same color. JMO,

Absolutely, perhaps. Iirc, wasn't he burning something in a burn pit in the backyard at his house? No link. moo

 

[smamda]

I believe be did see three girls, but the girls you speak of were a party of 4 and this is in The Franks or PCA, also, it is in the timeline provided by a member on here that I believe is pinned somewhere.

They may all have seen someone else that day.

Yes, I think the group of "3 or 4" girls can be almost ignored by the jury due to these discrepancies. The result was that this caught the attention of secretary/detectives in 2022 and reignited the investigation!
In MOO the prosecution does not need the 4 girls' eye witness to put RA on the bridge with Abby and Libby; his cell phone does that, from the WishTV updates I saw today (Day 6):

"Liggett says there’s no digital evidence that links Allen, but Allen was on his phone at that time on the bridge."

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Boxer]

They haven't even had the gun experts on witness stand yet.

We shall wait and see

The round is great and will be 95% matched in a blind test. He had that P226 outline in the jacket pocket as well. It's distinctictive with a deep grip and tapered barrel.

 

[smamda]

The new Websleuth poll for today is up.
CLICK HERE to participate. You can vote once a day.
We'll put up a new poll daily at the end of court.
At the end of court on 10/24/24 the results are,
Guilty 68.1%
Not Guilty 9.4%
I Don't Know 22.5%

Would loooooove comparison to yesterday's results if handy

 

[photographer4]

I want to hear more about it too. It was described as having an "ornate top" and that inside the box was not just the bullet but a letter from RA's mom and some photos.

Doesn't sound like it would be related to the murder of two kids knowing ONLY what you wrote above - I haven't heard anything yet that would suggest this keepsake box / bullet is nefarious - MOOOO

 

[Bbgiraffe]

I know DNA can break down over time but not founding any DNA evidence linking Allen to the crime scene seems off, imo.
It would be interesting to know how they stored the jacket.

Absolutely, perhaps. Iirc, wasn't he burning something in a burn pit in the backyard at his house? No link. moo

Apparently they didn't find any foreign male DNA at the crime scene. Not RA's not ANY male's. Just the hair that they say belonged to a female relative of one of the girls. Which makes sense with Abby borrowing the hoodie.

So whoever did it if it wasn't RA also didn't leave any DNA. MOO.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Yes, it’s absolutely true that had they realized they had that interview from the get-go, this case would have been adjudicated years ago.

My point is that they didn’t intentionally sit on this information, and decide to go after this guy years later.

That’s a huge distinction.

Absolutely agree-

Totally different level of conspiracy theory to suggest that they sat on the information intentionally and or had the file purposefully hidden or mislabeled- I’m not suggesting that at all-

I’m just stunned that it was mishandled as it was leading to needless delays- moo

 

[photographer4]

I’d imagine there will be testimony explaining the rational behind the safekeeping order.

I wonder how subjective the term "safe" keeping is though? Like did they feel HE was under threat from others or that he posed a threat to someone else on the inside??? This move has not ever really made a ton of sense to me. I hope to learn more and get a better understanding of what the corrections staff / lawyers / original judge felt the risks were in this case! Why was it in place for as long as it was? mooo

 

[MassGuy]

I love it when these guys change their stories to fit with the facts:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849593467699331324

 

[Inthedetails]

Finally caught up and want to thank everyone for all the excellent reporting. The quotes above are fantastic.

And a shout out to Libby, the hero who was behind the camera!

View attachment 540311

Oh, this picture!

Love.

 

[JAY CLUCK]

I’m curious what “keepsake box” means here. In my house I have some cute boxes that could be called keepsake boxes but they’re actually “put it in there because I don’t know what else to do with it right now” boxes.

Indeed. “Keepsake” could honestly easily be a little disingenuous and leading. This jury is sharp and noticing these things. Imo IF the P shows this box and it’s some metal tobacco or ammo tin, or a common little wooden box from a cheap antique store they will realize and not be too keen.

If they show the box and there’s something creepy about it alluding to this case that’s something else. But imo that’s not likely not the case with Mr cvs here.

I have several boxes that are obviously junk collectors. But if someone disengenous took one and said omg this is his KEEPSAKE box it will seem like I was having a good time with rubber bands, a couple bottles of wine, that date on that silver dollar must be significant, and someone has a bottle cap fetish.

This jury seems smarter than this by a mile though.

AMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

In related news:

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — A former co-worker of Defense Attorney Andrew Baldwin, who is currently representing Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen in a highly anticipated jury trial, has had a misdemeanor charge dropped that was related to capturing and distributing sensitive crime scene evidence.

Mitchell Westerman of Westfield was charged in November of last year with one count of conversion – a Class A misdemeanor – after admitting in a sworn statement to local police that he was the person responsible for a leak of evidence related to the Delphi double murders.

https://fox59.com/news/man-involved-in-delphi-murders-evidence-leak-has-charge-dismissed/