Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[Gerrymd8]

Here's my analysis.

The first 707.34 meters is from a point near where K dropped off A & L to the beginning of the bridge.

The next 414.38 meters is from the beginning of the bridge to a point on the south side of Deer Creek where something was occurring between the killer and A&L, this something is what was 'interrupted'. (This distance includes crossing the bridge, going down the hill, through the bottom land, to a point on the south side of Deer Creek.)

The final 50.64 meters is the distance from that 'interruption' point, across the creek, to that point where the girls bodies were found, and includes the elevation change.

I've measured these distances on google earth, and they seem to fit rather nicely, including the elevation change, as the bank of the creek is high, and thence on the other side of the creek uphill to the final CS area.

A chart in Cecil’s report outlined the recorded movement for Libby’s phone on February 13, 2017:

1:31 pm – 2:08 pm – 1,682 steps (707.34 meters)
2:08 pm – 2:18 pm – 414.38 meters
2:25 pm – 2:32 pm – 66 steps (50.64 meters)
2:31 pm – two-floor elevation change

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/he-was-covered-in-mud-and-blood-bridge-guy-witness-testimonies-continue/

@statt#1 You seem to be a math whiz. For fun, can you figure out the BG's height? (sorry if this question is not allowed, please delete if it isn't and thank you).

 

[m00c0w]

Also, GPS would get very confused if you were on a bridge... measuring either up on the narrow bridge itself...or more likely the creek wayyyy below.. and maybe averaging them as the starting elevation... before they went DTH.

JMO

Yeah… I would be curious if this was elevation based on GPS (notoriously inaccurate) or barometer (pretty accurate). I’d also like to know the entire scope of elevation changes over the time period of 2:00 to 2:32.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

@m00c0w

Yesterday Cecil dropped the bombshell just as you predicted. No log of the phone being switched on or off is in the Knowledge C database. Never happened. The logs show the phone was always on and finally ran out of battery sometime after 4.30am.

Unless they have some amazing expert that sinks their theory of the case as pleaded.

Source: Murder Sheet at 62mins approx.

 

[KSwizzle]

You could just say they moved the girls and left the phone there and brought them back later, I don’t believe in this second location abduction defense but they didn’t have to move the phone

 

[mrjitty]

T

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #202'

Oct 23, 2024

Asking people to believe the phone powered itself off at 10:30 pm and then powered itself back on at 4:30 am with no human interference is similar to asking people to toss logic out of the window and believe in a fairy tale.


MOO

I just read an article where the 10:32 pm power off of phone conclusion was "premature." They did so many dumps of Libby's phone things kept changing. Just like the murder weapon. sigh. JMO

Cecil stated he no longer believes the phone died at 10:32 p.m. and called his previous conclusion “premature.” Additional information led Cecil to believe the...

• twall

• 

There is no power off event in the Knowledge C database. That means no human switched the phone off.

The rest is defence fantasy.

IMO Cecil is not saying the phone turned off - rather it was in a power saving mode.

tldr; the phone was always on until after 4.30 am which is fatal to the D opening argument.

Will they change it yet again?

 

[MassGuy]

You could just say they moved the girls and left the phone there and brought them back later, I don’t believe in this second location abduction defense but they didn’t have to move the phone

The phone was found under Abby's body though. The blood evidence soundly refutes the theory as well.

 

[KSwizzle]

Well it is a theory as absurd and on par with everything else the defense is/was presenting so maybe they’ll go with it ha

 

[FrostedGlass]

Here's my analysis.

The first 707.34 meters is from a point near where K dropped off A & L to the beginning of the bridge.

The next 414.38 meters is from the beginning of the bridge to a point on the south side of Deer Creek where something was occurring between the killer and A&L, this something is what was 'interrupted'. (This distance includes crossing the bridge, going down the hill, through the bottom land, to a point on the south side of Deer Creek.)

The final 50.64 meters is the distance from that 'interruption' point, across the creek, to that point where the girls bodies were found, and includes the elevation change.

I've measured these distances on google earth, and they seem to fit rather nicely, including the elevation change, as the bank of the creek is high, and thence on the other side of the creek uphill to the final CS area.

A chart in Cecil’s report outlined the recorded movement for Libby’s phone on February 13, 2017:

1:31 pm – 2:08 pm – 1,682 steps (707.34 meters)
2:08 pm – 2:18 pm – 414.38 meters
2:25 pm – 2:32 pm – 66 steps (50.64 meters)
2:31 pm – two-floor elevation change

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/he-was-covered-in-mud-and-blood-bridge-guy-witness-testimonies-continue/

Do you agree with the drop-off time of 1:30?

 

[statt#1]

@statt#1 You seem to be a math whiz. For fun, can you figure out the BG's height? (sorry if this question is not allowed, please delete if it isn't and thank you).

I'm no math whiz but there is a nice distance tool on Google maps, along with an excellent understanding of the lay of the land surrounding the crime scene, and access to some topographical data, I took the time to look at it all and came to what I think is a common sense conclusion. BTW, I'll opine that bridge guy is taller than 5' and shorter than 6'.

 

[MassGuy]

Apparently a bunch of orders from the judge. Only one posted so far.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Inthedetails]

@statt#1 You seem to be a math whiz. For fun, can you figure out the BG's height? (sorry if this question is not allowed, please delete if it isn't and thank you).

We had pages of this info when the case was still new, if anyone wants to review there. Might be just as easy/difficult to find those posts as it is making the calculations anew.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm no math whiz but there is a nice distance tool on Google maps, along with an excellent understanding of the lay of the land surrounding the crime scene, and access to some topographical data, I took the time to look at it all and came to what I think is a common sense conclusion. BTW, I'll opine that bridge guy is taller than 5' and shorter than 6'.

LOL. I concur with that calculation.

jmo

 

[tlcya]

 

[Kudzuu]

So inside out seems to mean to me that BG took them off the girls himself?

I can see a wet shirt and underwear being inside out taking them off yourself... but not the pants.

What do you think? It probably doesn't matter.

If Abby was standing up and pulling her feet up to get out of the pants one leg at a time her feet in shoes coul have caused that.

 

[mrjitty]

Do you want him to just guess?

He is an expert in the field of cellphone forensics. He can only go by what is retrieved from the phone. If there were no logs showing it was powered off, or put on airplane mode, or whatever… he would have no way of knowing what exactly happened to cause it to no longer receive text messages until 4:33am the next morning.

As far as his opinion changing, it sounds like he went back after being questioned by the defense and did research about the matter so he was better-informed. That’s pretty much what I would expect him to do.

If the defense has an expert witness that will testify the phone was 100% turned off and back on, good for them and I look forward to hearing the rationale.

JMO

Exactly this

If someone turned the phone off, then later turned it back on - then he'd have an explanation because it would be in the logs. Instead, nothing is logged between 10 and 4.30 am - so he has to infer.

i.e the phone is in a low battery mode doing nothing.

It's actually the defence who needs to prove someone turned the phone on. Instead, we now know that didn't happen.

MOO

 

[arielilane]

NEW: the defense for Richard Allen in the Delphi murders case wants to call former Carroll County prosecuting attorney Robert Ives.

Allen’s attorneys sent Ives a subpoena on Tuesday of this week requesting his testimony at the trial.I

ves is trying to quash the subpoena,meaning he does not want to testify.

He states any information that he has would clearly be work product, which is some thing not discoverable.

It says anything that he would have information about would be purely speculative, irrelevant, and inadmissible in this proceeding. We will let you know what the judge decides.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849453150924578830

 

[Deleted member 229974]

According to when DTH was recorded vs when he was seen by the road... he had well over an hour........ more than plenty of time.

I wasn’t particularly referring to the time. I was simply imagining the chaos of committing the crime alone. If you’ve got two young, frightened girls and a gun in one hand to intimidate them with, two bladed knives hidden somewhere on your body and any other equipment you thought you might need, and one runs, what do you? Shoot her in the back and kill her, while the sound of gunfire permeates the area and draws attention to your location? In the meantime time the other girl is screaming and crying and possibly running away in the other direction.
So do you the fire another shot to kill her? And what if you miss, fire again? Now you’ve got people hearing more shots, who aren’t afraid to get involved and dial 911 on their cell phones. Now where do you go, back to your car and hope no one sees you or do you just run? Now you’ve left your spent gun cartridges everywhere.
The girls had no rope burns on their hands or bodies, no gag marks or duct tape residue on their faces. How did he physically control them both, with either a gun or one of two knives in his hand?
“Fight or Flight” is a natural survival mechanism that we’re all born with and no matter how close of friends the girls were to each other, I do not believe they were just being brave and stood by each other to the end.
It’s a strong life preserving response controlled by many body systems and I doubt young girls were mature or strong enough to die for each other. They had no defensive wounds, and no identifying DNA under their nails, so how did this killer do it alone? I’m just trying to understand how it was possible without any help. IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wouldn’t be surprised if that phone disappeared right after that initial (lost) interview. He provided the officer identifying information about that phone, which probably would have concerned him that it might be searched at some point.

Which reminds me, I don’t think we know how that interview came about. I’m assuming that he contacted LE, but I don’t think we know for sure.

RA's Defense Duo's first Press Release said the RA reached out to LE himself. I believe RA knew he had been seen at least by one group of girls and BB and SC. I can see him inserting himself into the case by explaining he was there that day but didn't observe anything unusual.

As a military brat, I find it telling that Dan Dulin the Conservation Officer that took his statement wrote RA being at the bridge from 1:30 pm to 3:30 pm in military time - 13:30 pm to 15:30 pm. Not easy to confuse or mis-write that detail.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

But so?

I was under the impression that they don't have to prove it.

Again, the only party that needs to prove their case are the prosecution. I can see why some folks are obsessing over the defense though.

JMO

Right but it's not exactly elite tier trial strategy to present a theory that gets ruled out in the first days, because a jury is likely to weigh the defence case vs the prosecution case, notwithstanding the different burdens. That is the danger or running with a positive theory.

MOO

 

[Deleted member 229974]

NEW: the defense for Richard Allen in the Delphi murders case wants to call former Carroll County prosecuting attorney Robert Ives.

Allen’s attorneys sent Ives a subpoena on Tuesday of this week requesting his testimony at the trial.I

ves is trying to quash the subpoena,meaning he does not want to testify.

He states any information that he has would clearly be work product, which is some thing not discoverable.

It says anything that he would have information about would be purely speculative, irrelevant, and inadmissible in this proceeding. We will let you know what the judge decides.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849453150924578830

Hmmm, I wonder why he’s reluctant to return to the stand?