Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[m00c0w]

I'm no math whiz but there is a nice distance tool on Google maps, along with an excellent understanding of the lay of the land surrounding the crime scene, and access to some topographical data, I took the time to look at it all and came to what I think is a common sense conclusion. BTW, I'll opine that bridge guy is taller than 5' and shorter than 6'.

Based on the RL affidavit, we know approximately where the girls were found:

LOGAN WARRANT final_Redacted.pdf

et he rS de. ur M. et he rS de. ur M. et he rS de. ur M. ...

www.docdroid.net

USGS has topo maps of the area from 2016, which can be viewed here:

Get Maps

Explore, interact, and download USGS topographic maps free of charge from topoView.

ngmdb.usgs.gov

In short, it looks like the girls were located in the area I highlighted in red, which would fall squarely within an approximately 20ft elevation gain from the bridge side of the creek, based on contour lines (1 line = 10ft according to the legend). This also highlights to me how steep the river banks actually are. It would be hard to move anyone in or out of that area without them being fully ambulatory.



All my opinion.

 

[mrjitty]

The other point TMS brought forward, since the cellphone wasn’t turned off or turned back on, if the girls were taken by car and brought back (even if the app doesn’t log steps in a vehicle) it still would’ve logged steps from exiting the car to the crime scene area, which it didn’t.

I just finished listening to this Day 5 podcast and although they’re not technical experts, I appreciate their insights and impressions from inside the courtroom. JMO

Also the phone had onboard GPS data (latitude and longitude) which updated if they moved. This is why the phone has to be off for the D theory, Otherwise, even if in a car, the location would change substantially.

 

[mpnola]

@statt#1 You seem to be a math whiz. For fun, can you figure out the BG's height? (sorry if this question is not allowed, please delete if it isn't and thank you).

Grey Hughes actually did this before Richard Allen was a suspect. He figured a shorter man. I can't remember the exact height but around 5'6 or 5'7, I think.

 

[Justice101]

I wasn’t particularly referring to the time. I was simply imagining the chaos of committing the crime alone. If you’ve got two young, frightened girls and a gun in one hand to intimidate them with, two bladed knives hidden somewhere on your body and any other equipment you thought you might need, and one runs, what do you? Shoot her in the back and kill her, while the sound of gunfire permeates the area and draws attention to your location? In the meantime time the other girl is screaming and crying and possibly running away in the other direction.
So do you the fire another shot to kill her? And what if you miss, fire again? Now you’ve got people hearing more shots, who aren’t afraid to get involved and dial 911 on their cell phones. Now where do you go, back to your car and hope no one sees you or do you just run? Now you’ve left your spent gun cartridges everywhere.
The girls had no rope burns on their hands or bodies, no gag marks or duct tape residue on their faces. How did he physically control them both, with either a gun or one of two knives in his hand?
“Fight or Flight” is a natural survival mechanism that we’re all born with and no matter how close of friends the girls were to each other, I do not believe they were just being brave and stood by each other to the end.
It’s a strong life preserving response controlled by many body systems and I doubt young girls were mature or strong enough to die for each other. They had no defensive wounds, and no identifying DNA under their nails, so how did this killer do it alone? I’m just trying to understand how it was possible without any help. IMO

He probably held one with a knife or gun and had the other girl comply. But like you, 2 would be much harder.

Maybe he killed one early to make it easier on himself.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Any other states?

The majority of States I believe, with the exception of Maryland who has put some limitations.

Regardless, we are talking about a trial occurring in Indiana and it is allowable to come in. It will be a case of dueling experts IMO and will be up to the jury to decide which expert they give more (if any) weight to.

JMO

 

[Vern]

The thread moves fast...Am I right that LE doesn't have the alleged phone RA says he had on the day of the murders? RA had lots of other phones, but no phone to prove he was looking at stock tickers that day? Explain it to me folks, please

Yeah, IMO that would be the one phone that you'd definitely want to hold onto knowing:

- 2 X Girls were brutally murdered on that trail (you googled it, so if 'innocent' you knew about the case);
- You were on the trails in the general timeframe of the crimes (even if you were only there from 1330 - "gone by 1415hrs");
- You had already tipped yourself in as being there from 1330 - 1530hrs to a CO; and
- If that phone really would be your "I had nothing to do with it/it exonerates me" schtick.

But, nah. Nothing to see here IMO.

 

[charminglane]

Also the phone had onboard GPS data (latitude and longitude) which updated if they moved. This is why the phone has to be off for the D theory, Otherwise, even if in a car, the location would change substantially.

Very clear, thank you!

 

[ClearAhead]

You could just say they moved the girls and left the phone there and brought them back later, I don’t believe in this second location abduction defense but they didn’t have to move the phone

The cellphone was found under Abby, under Libby’s shoe. To have left the cellphone and then later find it in a treed area in the dark would be greatly difficult I would imagine.

In addition as I recall the D theory has the abductors whisking the girls away from DTH directly to an awaiting vehicle parked on the access road. So there’d be no reason have gone to the crime scene where the murders occurred just to drop a phone.

IMO the D’s theory has been kiboshed.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849447330417705166

Delphi Murders Trial Day 5 Highlights

-First up to stand was Sarah Carbaugh
-She saw a guy walking down the road near the trails the day the girls went missing
-She recognized the BG picture on the news as the man she saw that day
-She described him as "muddy" and "bloody"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849447330417705166

 

[snooptroop88]

Right but it's not exactly elite tier trial strategy to present a theory that gets ruled out in the first days, because a jury is likely to weigh the defence case vs the prosecution case, notwithstanding the different burdens. That is the danger or running with a positive theory.

MOO

D's not deflecting the evidence against RA, which imo is a fatal error, but perhaps one beyond their control in that it cannot be deflected. If the D chooses to ignore the evidence posed by the P against their client, they can't really espouse some wack alternative theory that falls on its face. It has to have some teeth to it.

But that's just what they're doing, they are indeed espousing these wack theories, and these wack theories are falling on their face. And D's point of refuge will be-- appeals. It "shoulda been" the Odinism.

Don't count on it. The judge knew what she was doing in this case. If you need any evidence of that, look at the "new" D strategy. Does it look convincing? Does it even dovetail with the prior theory? Were the current conspirators now being discussed by the D carpooling with the Odinists, and they had no room in the car for muddy bloody BG? So he was hanging out on the road walking to his own vehicle-- really??

Or does it look like D's throwing darts to desperately find something that doesn't hit "Rick"?

 

[Cedars]

Also the phone had onboard GPS data (latitude and longitude) which updated if they moved. This is why the phone has to be off for the D theory, Otherwise, even if in a car, the location would change substantially.

I recall one of the comments the cellphone witness made was he was analyzing the movement data through Libby's Apple Health app.

He also said something like: it was generally considered quite accurate in terms of things like tracking elevation change.

I don't know what souce he got that from, but I assume millions of Apple users would complain if they were doing stair climbing for fitness and the app didn't register it accurately.

JMO

 

[Tricia]

If you haven't voted in the Websleuths poll today, be sure to do so.
So far,
63.8% guilty,
21.1% not guilty,
24.1% undecided.
Changing this a bit. We will put up a new poll at the beginning of court each day.
To participate, CLICK HERE

 

[MassGuy]

Order for Kegan Kline transport:

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/24/Kegan-Kline-transport-order-1.pdf

 

[ClearAhead]

Right but it's not exactly elite tier trial strategy to present a theory that gets ruled out in the first days, because a jury is likely to weigh the defence case vs the prosecution case, notwithstanding the different burdens. That is the danger or running with a positive theory.

MOO

True and with a weak alternative theory, the risk is that it might appear to the Jury the D has no defense and can’t even refute the evidence, so the accused must be guilty.

The D did state their defense was “gutted” when the Judge ruled to not allow it. It seems they had put all their eggs in one basket. However there’s still lots of time left….

 

[arielilane]

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5 days ago ... BobSegallWTHR: 13 Things To Know From The Delphi Murders Trial Today - Oct 19 1 ... Richard Allen appeared to bow his head & pray just before ...

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5 days ago ... BobSegallWTHR: 13 Things To Know From The Delphi Murders Trial Today - Oct 19 1 ... Richard Allen could have come from the police. #wthr. Share ...

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3 min read. 13 Things To Know From The Delphi Murders Trial Today - Oct 18 1. Richard Allen appeared to bow his head & pray just before jurors entered the ...

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13 Things To Know From The Delphi Murders Trial Today - Oct 18 1. Richard Allen appeared to bow his head & pray just before jurors entered the courtroom for ...

 

[m00c0w]

Order for Kegan Kline transport:

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/24/Kegan-Kline-transport-order-1.pdf

The defense is playing with a ticking timebomb if they actually call this guy to the stand.

 

[Inthedetails]

Right but it's not exactly elite tier trial strategy to present a theory that gets ruled out in the first days, because a jury is likely to weigh the defence case vs the prosecution case, notwithstanding the different burdens. That is the danger or running with a positive theory.

MOO

Let's keep in mind the jury isn't there to compare the prosecution's case to the defense. It isn't a match-up between those two parties.

Instead, the jury matches up the prosecution's case to the law. That's where the match up is - with the law.

The jurors ask, did the state present evidence that checks off the list of requirements under the law to convict, without reasonable doubt.

jmo

 

[Sillybilly]

This is a bit OT in the current flow of trial discussion, but I was rummaging on unfired ammunition. Wanting to drop a link to this rather comprehensive Firearm Examiner Training from University of Florida. It's a wealth of info that may be of interest to our members with links to many resources at the end. Good page to bookmark.

Module 09 :: Examination of Unfired Ammunition

projects.nfstc.org

 

[MassGuy]

The defense is playing with a ticking timebomb if they actually call this guy to the stand.

I dunno. Wouldn’t you want to call a convicted sexual predator who had contact with one of the victims?

What do you see as the pitfalls here?

 

[sunshineray]

Wow, how embarrassing the state witness didn't know this or bother to research it.

The jury questions lead me to believe an experienced IT person is on the jury.

Moo

He was wasn't concerned with the obvious probably, it's a picture of Abby taken by Libby with a time stamp, not some phantom menace who's phone was paired to Libby's. Nor was he concerned with opening an asinine door for more discussion Such nonsense, IMO, doesn't need credence. But I'm sure the defense will bring it up again in their case.
AJMO