Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[TristanP]

Probably because he has been in retirement for 7 years already. He's probably feeling a bit old for having to jump back into a major trial. He likely doesn't remember things as well as he used to and would also have some difficulties with cross examination at his age and being immersed in retirement. He really has very little to add because he was not an investigator and he did not have a big hand in any of the case at hand now.

Dang, you’ve got this man with one foot in the grave. Seems like he was competent enough to draft his response to the subpoena, so I am guessing he’s still quite sharp.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

20-50 year range is a bit outside the scope of "exact same description" IMO.

Double post.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

The witnesses recognized the man they passed as BG? Was there additional testimony from those witness? Because the two I heard about did not identify the guy they passed as BG, or as RA, or say that BG is RA.

The witness only saw one person on the trail. Not even just one male. One person. During their walk from the high bridge at 12:43pm to near the freedom bridge at 1:26pm. They saw this one person sometime after the photo at 1:26pm when they were walking back toward freedom bridge. These times are documented by photos taken by the witness. The PCA says they walked the entirety of the trail and only saw one person. One other person admits to being there. Richard Allen. The other witness saw one male on the bridge some time after she arrived at the trail at 1:46pm and other than that only saw Abby and Libby before she left the trail at 2:14pm.

Court documents released in Delphi murder case: Read the probable cause affidavit here

The affidavit does not indicate how Libby German or Abby Williams were killed Feb. 13, 2017. Read the probable cause affidavit here.

www.indystar.com

 

[m00c0w]

Lol I see what you did there and I agree!
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However, on cross examination, defense attorney Bradley Rozzi argued that previous fishing licenses had listed Allen’s height at 5′ 6″. Then it was 5′ 4″ in 2016 and changed back to 5′ 6″ in 2017.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-tip-marked-cleared-found-while-cleaning-out-desk-put-richard-allen-on-the-radar-in-2022/

You left out the next part of that:

Dulin explained from the stand that when printing old licenses, the most recent demographic data is on the top. Printing a license from 2005 in 2017, for example, would list his height as 5′ 6″ in the header information because that’s the 2017 entry. His report showed the most recent year-to-year, Dulin said. And that is what showed the change.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

His report showed the most recent year-to-year, Dulin said. And that is what showed the change.

But if he was pulling the records from 2022 why would it have showed a change in 2017? What am I missing?

Most recent year to year would have been 2021 to 2022 I would think- I’m obviously not understanding unless he didn’t get another fishing license after April 1,2017? I’m confused

 

[MiniMoo]

Yeah this witness was a huge L for P. This is a very observant jury as we’ve seen… and they had NO questions for this guy…

What does L mean just for clarity?

 

[rez125]

What does L mean just for clarity?

A loss.

 

[MiniMoo]

And didn’t another say it was tan?

Are you taking a page from the jurors because they seem to ask some great questions to find out information and facts as well.

Tan definitely came up for sure.

JMT

 

[MiniMoo]

A loss.

Got it! Thanks.

 

[ClearAhead]

Do we know if KA is on the witness list? If anyone would know if a man bought new clothes or got rid of old ones, it would be his wife imo.

According to the link of Stipulations posted here a couple times earlier she will be a witness. It was agreed by both parties that she could also attend the trial.

 

[Simply Southern]

Indeed. “Keepsake” could honestly easily be a little disingenuous and leading. This jury is sharp and noticing these things. Imo IF the P shows this box and it’s some metal tobacco or ammo tin, or a common little wooden box from a cheap antique store they will realize and not be too keen.

If they show the box and there’s something creepy about it alluding to this case that’s something else. But imo that’s not likely not the case with Mr cvs here.

I have several boxes that are obviously junk collectors. But if someone disengenous took one and said omg this is his KEEPSAKE box it will seem like I was having a good time with rubber bands, a couple bottles of wine, that date on that silver dollar must be significant, and someone has a bottle cap fetish.

This jury seems smarter than this by a mile though.

AMO

I’m sure they will show the “box”.

Moo

 

[al66pine]

Former Prosecutor's Response to Subpoena? Competence?

Dang, you’ve got this man with one foot in the grave. Seems like he was competent enough to draft his response to the subpoena, so I am guessing he’s still quite sharp.

@TristanP

Did former prosecutor PERSONALLY draft his own response to subpoena? IDK.

Page 1 (the only page I could see on X) of the Motion to Quash* shows that Ives was represented by counsel, "Thomas J. O'Brien."

Who drafted it? O'Brien? Or Ives drafted it for O'Brien's siggy? An intern? IDK.

Not commenting about any aspect of Ives' competence, just reciting what's in the MtQ.

__________________________
* Post #176 on this thread. Image of MtQ at

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203'

Oct 24, 2024

NEW: the defense for Richard Allen in the Delphi murders case wants to call former Carroll County prosecuting attorney Robert Ives.

Allen’s attorneys sent Ives a subpoena on Tuesday of this week requesting his testimony at the trial.I

ves is trying to quash the subpoena,meaning he does not want to testify.

He states any information that he has would clearly be work product, which is some thing not discoverable.

It says anything that he would have information about would be purely speculative, irrelevant, and inadmissible in this proceeding. We will let you know what the judge...

• arielilane

• 
• 

 

[m00c0w]

And didn’t another say it was tan?

Carbaugh said she might have thought the coat was tan because he was covered in mud.

A call, Snapchat photos, the infamous video: Delphi trial offers timeline of girls' activities

Jurors on Wednesday heard from a forensic digital expert who analyzed Libby's phone and from an eyewitness who claimed seeing the "Bridge Guy."

www.indystar.com

 

[justtrish]

Actually re: the fishing license height/weight change. I'm listening to Murder Sheet's recap for today and they report that RA didn't change the height and weight when he got the fishing license, he did it several months later. So I'd say some time in the summer he goes back in and changes that information.

That to me is slightly more interesting because why does it matter to go back in later to change some data on this fishing license info online? Weight I can understand, but height is odd.

 

[ClearAhead]

Probably because he has been in retirement for 7 years already. He's probably feeling a bit old for having to jump back into a major trial. He likely doesn't remember things as well as he used to and would also have some difficulties with cross examination at his age and being immersed in retirement. He really has very little to add because he was not an investigator and he did not have a big hand in any of the case at hand now.

He resigned from his elected role, he didn’t retire. Regardless he won’t be required to testify.

Delphi Murders judge denies defense request to call ex-prosecutor as witness

New court filings reveal defense team's efforts to get ex-prosecutor Robert Ives to testify in the Delphi Murders case. Odinism introduction motion still pending.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Weight I can understand, but height is odd.

Maybe he got lifts? So much is odd about this case- moo

 

[m00c0w]

Liggett said there’s no digital evidence that links Allen, but Allen was on his phone at that time on the bridge.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wishtv.com

Not sure if he's referring to cellphone data or RA's self-reporting... but that's definitely an interesting statement to make like that, which doesn't appear to have been challenged by the defense.

 

[INfisherman]

P will more than likely come back later & address the varying descriptions & put more emphasis that eyewitnesses all agreed the man they all saw was BG. It’s not any more unrealistic or unreasonable than other claims being made or expected to be made IMO.

I’m a bit perplexed by the D claiming Liggett lying about the direction a car was traveling along 300N. What led up to that point? Were they reviewing the HHS security camera footage? I don’t recall much discussion about that here today. Anyone care to provide some background please?

 

[m00c0w]

P will more than likely come back later & address the varying descriptions & put more emphasis that eyewitnesses all agreed the man they all saw was BG. It’s not any more unrealistic or unreasonable than other claims being made or expected to be made IMO.

I’m a bit perplexed by the D claiming Liggett lying about the direction a car was traveling along 300N. What led up to that point? Were they reviewing the HHS security camera footage? I don’t recall much discussion about that here today. Anyone care to provide some background please?

TL was assuming RA must have driven a certain direction because he was going to the trails, and the defense was arguing that he actually left the trails at that time, is my understanding. The defense was accusing TL of manipulating the facts to suit his own narrative (vehicle seen driving down the road was actually leaving the trails, not going to the trails). My biggest issue with that take is that RA initially said he got there around 1:30, the timeframe of the girls running into him lines up with him arriving around that time... and therefore it makes sense that it's his car arriving shortly before then.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Liggett said there’s no digital evidence that links Allen, but Allen was on his phone at that time on the bridge.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wishtv.com

Not sure if he's referring to cellphone data or RA's self-reporting... but that's definitely an interesting statement to make like that, which doesn't appear to have been challenged by the defense.

Yes. So we have that, and these searches about the case that have been alluded to. I’m sure we’ll be hearing more.