Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[Bbgiraffe]

Because they saw boyishly good looking, poofy haired young men and square jawed blonde athletic men.

It's interesting that Richard Allen didn't see this supposed other man...if there was another man.

 

[WildHuncher]

Because they saw boyishly good looking, poofy haired young men and square jawed blonde athletic men.

That would have been sorted out long ago. They saw one man. One man saw them. There was one male on the trail.

The descriptions vary because it wasn’t important at the time and people just aren’t that reliable on the details.

 

[FrostedGlass]

13 Thing To Know From The Delphi Murders Trial Today - Oct 24 Sorry for getting this out late. Long day at the office.

1. Today the State focused all testimony squarely on Richard Allen, telling jurors how they zeroed in on the defendant & why they arrested him.


2. Jurors learned Allen “fell thru the cracks” of the state’s Delphi Murders investigation, resulting in a 5-yr delay in his arrest. Investigators literally forgot Allen called their tipline 3 days after the murders to report being on the Monon High Bridge the day of the murders.
View attachment 540437



3. It was a volunteer file clerk who discovered a summary of Allen’s 2/18/17 interview with a DNR investigator that triggered his 2022 arrest. The file clerk testified today, as well as the investigator who conducted the 2017 interview discovered in an old file box.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849665198136660095

4. The investigator met Allen in this grocery store parking lot. He said nothing from the interview seemed unusual & Allen’s file was marked “CLEARED.” Again, Allen called police ON HIS OWN to say he was near the crime scene the day he allegedly killed 2 girls. Think about that.
View attachment 540438

5. Former Delphi Police chief Steve Mullin & sheriff Tony Liggett both told jurors that after finding the 2017 RA interview in 2022, they quickly re-interviewed Allen & searched his home where they seized lots of knives & a gun later linked to a bullet casing at the crime scene.

View attachment 540439
6. ISP Lt. Jerry Holeman testified that during the search, when Allen was told he could file a complaint if investigators damaged his house,Allen replied “It doesn’t matter, it’s over.” Defense attorneys said the testimony from Holeman lacked importance context.
View attachment 540440

7. Sheriff Liggett told jurors the recovered gun allegedly linked to the crime scene bullet casing “put us over the edge” to arrest Allen. But he said even without that evidence, he had enough to arrest RA based on witness statements placing Allen near the crime scene. And then…


8. The defense went on the attack. During cross examination, atty Brad Rozzi asked Liggett about the statement of witness Betsy Blair, who described seeing Bridge Guy (the man seen on Libby’s phone & who the State says is Allen). It led to a remarkable admission by the sheriff.

View attachment 540441
9. Rozzi: “Betsy Blair saw a man who was boyish and beautiful with brown poofy hair in his 20s or 30s…Her description does not match the description of Richard Allen.”Liggett: “But neither do the 3 girls’ [descriptions] of Richard Allen.”Rozzi: “Exactly. Right.”


10. Yes, the sheriff pointed out for the jury that all four State witnesses who saw Bridge Guy on the day of the murders described seeing someone who does NOT look like the defendant. Not a great moment for the prosecutor who otherwise made some progress today.

View attachment 540443
11. The defense also pushed back hard on witnesses who seemed to spin testimony by leaving out important context or details. Atty Andy Baldwin scolded witness Steve Mullin:“You are so desperate to place Richard Allen’s car traveling west on 300N that…you lied to this jury.”

View attachment 540444
12. Jurors also got to see/hear a super enhanced version of the Bridge Guy video captured on Libby’s phone. BG is behind Abby. Liggett says he hears:Abby: Is he right here? Don’t leave me up here.Libby: That be a gun. There’s no path here.BG: GuysGirl: Hi.BG: Down the hill.

View attachment 540445
13. Today @EmilyWTHR & I were joined in the courtroom by 13News legal analyst Katie Jackson-Lindsay. She is amazing at picking up on legal nuances & breaking down complex interactions in the courtroom. See for yourself in our Day 6 Delphi Debrief. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XeJpTO6TW2Q

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849690711668527144

IMO
This is a "BAM!" exchange, for sure.
9. Rozzi: “Betsy Blair saw a man who was boyish and beautiful with brown poofy hair in his 20s or 30s…Her description does not match the description of Richard Allen.”Liggett: “But neither do the 3 girls’ [descriptions] of Richard Allen.”Rozzi: “Exactly. Right.”

This on one is confusing. Was Libby already somewhere down the hill when Abby asked that?
12. Jurors also got to see/hear a super enhanced version of the Bridge Guy video captured on Libby’s phone. BG is behind Abby. Liggett says he hears: Abby: Is he right here? Don’t leave me up here. Libby: That be a gun. There’s no path here.BG: GuysGirl: Hi.BG: Down the hill.

 

[susiQ]

From Bob Segall:

9. Rozzi: “Betsy Blair saw a man who was boyish and beautiful with brown poofy hair in his 20s or 30s…Her description does not match the description of Richard Allen.”Liggett: “But neither do the 3 girls’ [descriptions] of Richard Allen.”Rozzi: “Exactly. Right.”

Priceless!!!
JMVHO

Eta: You beat me to it @FrostedGlass

 

[Salah11]

That would have been sorted out long ago. They saw one man. One man saw them. There was one male on the trail.

The descriptions vary because it wasn’t important at the time and people just aren’t that reliable on the details.

Spot on there is no other mystery man.

One man dressed as BG who has even admitted he was dressed similarly and out on the bridge at the time in question.

 

[JAY CLUCK]

IMO
This is a "BAM!" exchange, for sure.
9. Rozzi: “Betsy Blair saw a man who was boyish and beautiful with brown poofy hair in his 20s or 30s…Her description does not match the description of Richard Allen.”Liggett: “But neither do the 3 girls’ [descriptions] of Richard Allen.”Rozzi: “Exactly. Right.”

This on one is confusing. Was Libby already somewhere down the hill when Abby asked that?
12. Jurors also got to see/hear a super enhanced version of the Bridge Guy video captured on Libby’s phone. BG is behind Abby. Liggett says he hears: Abby: Is he right here? Don’t leave me up here. Libby: That be a gun. There’s no path here.BG: GuysGirl: Hi.BG: Down the hill.

I’d speculate Libbie was at the end on dirt where it’s easy to walk. You can’t walk on that bridge quickly and not looking down from looks of it. It’s treacherous.

 

[Yemelyan]

At the top of the post, I put, so there is no confusion and use quotations.
From the article:

Yes...I was thanking you for doing it this way.

 

[m00c0w]

MOO of course, but they made their biggest mistake when they honed in on RA and got tunnel vision. Rozzi did an excellent job of getting Liggett to actually show the jurors what a myopic and poor investigation this was and how nothing much so far actually supports RA as being BG.

I’m looking forward to the “confessions.” All MOO.

They got “tunnel vision” after 5 years of investigating multiple people, resulting in them being cleared? It’s not like they heard his name in 2017 and spent 5 years only focusing on poor Ricky. They searched the freaking Wabash for many days to try and prove KK and TK were guilty. Only one person so far has come up in the investigation that checks all the boxes, including an inordinate amount of confessions. And he’s currently on trial.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

I would add that hunters don’t hunt with handguns, so I don’t get this obsession by the defense to try to paint a picture of a forest floor covered in .40 ammo. My granddaddy used to carry a handgun when hunting or fishing to take care of other things like snakes and snapping turtles, but he seldom had to use it.
The defense cannot deflect from the fact that RA stated he had never been in the area of the crime scene and had never loaned his gun to anyone, yet that unspent bullet at the crime scene cycled through RA’s gun, and ballistics is not junk science.

Disappointed neither the P nor DNR, that I am aware, came back & pointed out a few things just to cover more bases for any jurors who are ignorant of common gun/outdoor activities/practices:

• the ammo found typically isn’t used for hunting
• deer stands are also used for bow hunting yet arrows aren’t laying around everywhere
• bow hunting season runs longer than gun season
• bullets don’t usually just fall out of magazines
• spare magazines are usually kept in a holster of sorts with snaps over the top of the ammo inside

JMO

ETA fancy bulleted formatting

 

[Salah11]

Oh and if there is this mystery good looking man (boyish) with hair then he certainly isn’t BG as BG is short and Fat going by the video. So unless the defence have changed the definition of what good looking means then he isn’t the killer.

Moo

 

[m00c0w]

From Bob Segall:

9. Rozzi: “Betsy Blair saw a man who was boyish and beautiful with brown poofy hair in his 20s or 30s…Her description does not match the description of Richard Allen.”Liggett: “But neither do the 3 girls’ [descriptions] of Richard Allen.”Rozzi: “Exactly. Right.”

Priceless!!!
JMVHO

Eta: You beat me to it @FrostedGlass

I think the actual point is whooshing some people, including Rozzi.

RA admitted he saw the girls. He described the exact circumstances they reported in their witness statements, complete with matching timeline.

The people who (quite apparently with a little bit of critical thinking about the evidence) literally saw RA and RA says saw him described him differently. That is the point here, and is valid. Eyewitnesses are notoriously bad. What matters is they all say they saw BG.

I understand why some folks are so eager for the defense to get a win in after the testimonies that absolutely wreck the defense’s theory… but this isn’t quite the issue it’s made out to be.

JMO

 

[Trebor5591]

I listened to TMS Day Six for the trial.
When Jerry Holeman testified about the search RA said something a couple times. Now while we can never know exactly the way another person's mind works in any given situation, RA's words are interesting in the context of what was going on and being said to him at the time he spoke them, IMO.

The first time Holeman approached RA saying, (paraphrasing) we're going to try and be careful as we search, but if something gets damaged during the search there's a form you can fill out to get reimbursement to fix it.

RA answered, " It doesn't matter. It's over."

The RA asked, (paraphrasing) where his wife was, did they arrest her? Holeman replied that she couldn't use the bathroom at the house because of the search, she went to her work to use the bathroom. Do you want me to bring you there to her?

RA answered, "It doesn't matter. It's over."

The conversation that was occurring each time, once about damage to his home and another about being with his wife are two very important things in a person's life...home and family.

I must say his choice of words do not sound, IMO, like what an innocent man would be saying who was just told his home was in danger of possible damage or his wife had actually removed herself to another place at what was I'm sure a very stressful situation.

I think if being an innocent person in such a situation, I'd be saying, yeah I'd sure appreciate if you didn't damage stuff, this is my home! Or I'd want to call my spouse to make sure they were ok. If they had taken my phone away (for the search) I'd ask to use someone's phone to call my spouse or take him up on the ride and be with my spouse.

Very out of place and pessimistic choice of words, for an innocent man, in that situation.
"It doesn't matter. It's over." What was all over in his mind and why?

All of this is just my opinion.

IMO, RA said "It doesn't matter. It's over" because he knew he was caught for killing Abby and Libby.

 

[WildHuncher]

Spot on there is no other mystery man.

One man dressed as BG who has even admitted he was dressed similarly and out on the bridge at the time in question.

And the girls were walking together as a group. Had they been strung out along the path, one could imagine scenarios where they did see different men. Black Jacket Guy, Poofy Haired Guy, etc.

But we know a group of girls saw just one man and just one man saw them. The girls now say under oath that man was BG. Are they lying? Why?

That man continued on down toward the MHB.

Betsy Blair, arriving later and just driving in, saw the group of girls. Then she went down the trail to the MHB and saw a man she says under oath was BG standing on the first bridge platform. Is she lying? Why?

She turned back and passed Abby and Libby coming down the trail toward that one man, BG. BG, who is also RA.

 

[BUF]

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Six: "It Doesn't Matter, It's Over"
So it wasn't during the Steve Mullin cross examination, it was during Tony Liggett's but Murder Sheet did have some jury reaction reports you might find interesting. 1:01:30 of the above episode

Kevin: And then Rozzi began the cross examination and he started talking about "Oh, when all this was going on, the sheriff's election was going on, hmm folks?" And Nick McLeland objected and there was such disgust in his voice when he said: "Is the defense contending that he made an arrest with no evidence to better his position in his election? With no evidence?" And there was such disgust in his voice when he said it. And it just occurred to me when he said it, this defense team for reasons I have never understood, I have never understood this, they have really been assiduously courting YouTubers- and not just any YouTubers, the most irresponsible, untrustworthy YouTubers imaginable. They've made them their base, they've made them their focus group. They love YouTubers. They court these YouTubers so much they actually have a YouTuber sitting in a defense seat.* So, they're not shy about it. But the problem is when you court these particular type of YouTubers, when you make these YouTubers your focus group, you think that the things they respond to is what other people will respond to. But when McLeland indicated his disgust with this notion that this arrest was somehow engineered because of the election, I looked over at the jury and they were responding to McLeland. And also keep in mind, we had just heard Kathy Shank discovered this tip on her late husband's birthday. And now they're saying- I guess she was part of a conspiracy too?
Aine: Oh, we're all part of the conspiracy at this point, Kevin.
Kevin: Because I mean like, if you think this was just cooked up because of the election then she has to be in on it. And I don't think that's an idea that would really go well in front of this jury from what I saw.

*Kevin is referring to Bob Motta here

Thank you very much!

 

[JAY CLUCK]

I think the actual point is whooshing some people, including Rozzi.

RA admitted he saw the girls. He described the exact circumstances they reported in their witness statements, complete with matching timeline.

The people who (quite apparently with a little bit of critical thinking about the evidence) literally saw RA and RA says saw him described him differently. That is the point here, and is valid. Eyewitnesses are notoriously bad. What matters is they all say they saw BG.

I understand why some folks are so eager for the defense to get a win in after the testimonies that absolutely wreck the defense’s theory… but this isn’t quite the issue it’s made out to be.

JMO

If they’re so bad why is eye witness half the case? We’re now back at square 1 lol

I think the whoosh is that it’s what the jury thinks, not us in the cheap seats.

 

[INfisherman]

Plot twist…..

….P adds theft charges for all the box cutters taken from work! (obviously kidding)

 

[arielilane]

Thread by @MaxLewisTV on Thread Reader App

@MaxLewisTV: Delphi Murders Trial Day 6 Recap: I'll start where I left off on my morning recap and that was with Steven Mullin back on the stand. He's the investigator for the prosecutor's office. -Once tip...…

threadreaderapp.com

]Delphi Murders Trial Day 6 Recap:

I'll start where I left off on my morning recap and that was with Steven Mullin back on the stand. He's the investigator for the prosecutor's office.

-Once tip from Richard Allen resurfaced in Sept. 2022, Mullin got a call from Tony Liggett
-They began looking in to Allen
-They found out what cars he drives which included a 2016 Black Ford Focus
-He went to Hoosier Harvest store to see if cameras there captured the vehicle as it had several other cars
-Vehicle matching that description seen at 1:27 PM
-Car was traveling east to west
-Camera doesn't capture license plate or the driver
-Mullin said shape and appearance are consistent
-The time is significant because Allen said he arrived at the trails around 1:30
-After that, Mullin and Tony Liggett went to speak with Allen

​

-Mullin said they went to Allen's home and asked to speak with him
-Mullin said they told him he was not obligated to go with them but Allen agreed to do so
-Mullin said he advised Allen of his rights
-During the interrogation, said he visited his mom that day
-Afterwards he went home, got a jacket and then went to the trails
-He said he walked past three girls on the trail
-Allen said during that interview that he arrived at noon and then left at 1:30
-He told Mullin he walked to high bridge to look at the fish
-Allen said he normally goes to the trails through the city but may have gone through the country
-If he took the country route, he would pass by the camera on the Hoosier Harvest store
-Allen told investigators he was wearing black or blue Carhart jacket, jeans and boots
-Mullin said during the interview he initially was going to let them look through his phone but changed his mind
-Mullin said he became "agitated" when they showed him photo of bridge guy
-Mullin said Allen responded by saying "if the picture was taken with the girls camera..."
-"...there's now way it could be me"
-Allen then walked out and ended the interview
-During cross examination, Baldwin accused Mullin of lying to the jury
-Baldwin asked Mullin to point out in the transcript of the interview where Allen said he may have gone west on the road

​

NOTE: If he's going west on the road, he'd pass in front of the camera

-Mullin looked through the transcript for roughly 5 minutes but couldn't find it
-Baldwin said Allen actually said he had gone by the high bridge entrance
-Mullin said it was his "interpretation" that Allen was talking about the Mears entrance which would mean Allen was traveling west
-Baldwin smirked and said "your interpretation"
-Baldwin says Allen told them he took "the loop" that day
-Mullin acknowledged it was a route Allen said he possibly took
-Baldwin asked if Allen told them he went through town to get to the trail which would mean he was going east on the road by the trails
-Mullin said yes
-Baldwin says "He told you if he was going to Monon High Bridge then he'd go through town"
-Mullin responded "Not how I interpret what he was saying"
-Mullin agreed with Baldwin that the theory from prosecution is that Allen was parked at the old CPS building from 1:30 to 4
-Baldwin asked if there was anything to contradict that in the investigation?
-Mullin said he wasn't aware of anything
-Baldwin then brings up Betsy Blair and her description of the car parked there that day
-McLeland asks to approach and Baldwin ended his cross

​

-Jury asked a few questions including if Mullin investigated how many other black Ford Focus cars there are in this area.
-Mullin said no
-Next up was Sheriff Tony Liggett
-A enhanced version of the video from Libby's cell phone was played
-Liggett was asked what he believes he heard and said:

Abby: "Is he right there"
Abby: "Don't leave me up here"
Libby: "See this is the path"
Libby: "That be a gun"
Libby: "There's no path here"
Male: "Guys"
Girls: "Hi"
Male: "Down the hill"
-Defense attorney Brad Rozzi asked to strike the line about the gun and Judge Gull agreed
-Liggett said after tip resurface he researched Richard Allen and found out he worked at CVS, had a lifetime handgun permit and drove a 2016 Ford Focus
-Said he and Mullin interviewed Allen
-Told the jury Allen was "wishy washy" about where he parked
-Liggett then talked about search warrant on Allen's home on October 13, 2022
-Inside home they found Sig Sauer .40 gun
-Found a .40 cartridge in a "keepsake" box as well as a blue Carhart jacket

​

-Defense attorney Rozzi then crossed and insinuated Liggett wanted to make arrest because he was running for Sheriff
-Rozzi asked if he was aware of any leaks of info early on in the case. Liggett said yes
-Rozzi then asks if bridge guy should be seen on video since he was seen walking along the road. Liggett says yes.
-Rozzi asks if they saw anyone the video. Liggett says no.
-Liggett said searches for evidence were never done in the fields along that roadway
-Rozzi then asks if there's any DNA evidence connecting Allen to the scene? Liggett says no.
-Rozzi asks if any digital evidence connects Allen to the scene? Liggett says no.
-Rozzi then asked if there were pieces of the girls clothes missing from the scene? Liggett said yes
-Those pieces of clothing have still never been recovered
-Rozzi talks about Betsy Blair and asks if it's okay to just believe what she saw because her description does of bridge guy doesn't match Richard Allen
-Liggett says "neither do the 3 girls" who were on the trail
-Rozzi said "that's exactly right"

Sheriff Liggett stepped down and I had to leave the courtroom to brief other members of the media pool. I'm still compiling those notes. More to come.
And by those notes, I mean the notes about witnesses that took the stand after I left.

• • •

​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849619045990998242

​

@MaxLewisTV

Delphi Murders Trial Day 6 Recap:I'll start where I left off on my morning recap and that was with Steven Mullin back on the stand. He's the investigator for the prosecutor's office. -Once tip from Richard Allen resurfaced in Sept. 2022, Mullin got a call from Tony Liggett


9:08 PM · Oct 24, 2024

 

[arielilane]

IMO
This is a "BAM!" exchange, for sure.
9. Rozzi: “Betsy Blair saw a man who was boyish and beautiful with brown poofy hair in his 20s or 30s…Her description does not match the description of Richard Allen.”Liggett: “But neither do the 3 girls’ [descriptions] of Richard Allen.”Rozzi: “Exactly. Right.”

This on one is confusing. Was Libby already somewhere down the hill when Abby asked that?
12. Jurors also got to see/hear a super enhanced version of the Bridge Guy video captured on Libby’s phone. BG is behind Abby. Liggett says he hears: Abby: Is he right here? Don’t leave me up here. Libby: That be a gun. There’s no path here.BG: GuysGirl: Hi.BG: Down the hill.

As you're aware, BB's description was basis for this police sketch. Imo, glad to know reason for the 2nd sketch, finally.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848878629746577867

 

[Deleted member 296739]

when even the big mistake with the surname (Whiteman/Allen) hadn't been discovered at that time.

But it had been known- RA confirmed his name and address to DD during the 2017 interview in the parking lot, DD took notes, typed them up, added his drivers license info and dmv photo to the report and turned that over to the detectives- per his testimony yesterday-

How the only person who put themselves on the bridge (after police said we want to talk to anyone who was on the bridge) within days of the murder - how this was “lost” or misfiled or not escalated to the top of the investigative chain of command is beyond comprehension- let alone how the name mistake was retained for years-

Moo

 

[m00c0w]

If they’re so bad why is eye witness half the case? We’re now back at square 1 lol

I think the whoosh is that it’s what the jury thinks, not us in the cheap seats.

How are eyewitnesses “half the case”? Their purpose was to corroborate a timeline. They did that. Days ago. We’ve now moved on to the rest of the case, including ME reports that exclude the defense’s theory, RA admitting he was in the right place at the right time in the right clothes, the revelation (that clearly rattled the defense) that the ME believes the murder weapon could have been only one knife, consistent with a box cutter, that the phone was never turned off and activity on the phone is consistent with the state’s timeline… and so on.

Eyewitnesses are only one brick in the growing wall, as has been said repeatedly by others here.

JMO