Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #206

[CamilleBSP]

Do we have any testimony at all that provides evidence of any restraints used? if so, is there a link? I didn’t think there had been any but maybe I’m a bit behind. Ty.

No testimony of restraints whatsoever.

 

[INfisherman]

Do we have any testimony at all that provides evidence of any restraints used? if so, is there a link? I didn’t think there had been any but maybe I’m a bit behind. Ty.

None that I recall & I take the post you quoted more speculative/theory as to what might have occurred & less of a statement per se.

JMO

 

[dub]

This has probably been discussed, sorry I’m not recalling….. is it thought by fellow posters that the phone was in Libby’s pocket the whole time after the video recording? And then maybe fell out when her jeans were put on Abby? Then at some point it fell out onto the ground and her body was over it? Incredible and so lucky that he didn’t witness that happening, if so! The chaos that must have been happening

If I remember right, there was an attempt to unlock the phone very shortly after the video was taken.

I assumed this was Libby attempting to do this with the phone hidden in her sweatshirt pouch pocket rather than her jeans, as it would have been easier to conceal and manipulate in there, but that’s just a guess.

I don’t have a good idea of how the phone ended up where it did, but yeah your theory is a good possibility.

 

[photographer4]

Why all the confessing then? That's not a logical thing to do if you're simply innocent. MO

I think that’s a huge part of how we get wrongful convictions that end up overturned later. People do make false confessions. It’s not unheard of even if it seems illogical to some. It makes sense to me in some cases - maybe they want to give up fighting (depression). Maybe they are medicated. Or need it and aren’t. Maybe they’re scared in prison or scared of being released. I don’t know why really, but false confessions do happen and unfortunately often times jurors believe them only to learn later they were false. Moo. A quote for those interested followed by a link to the source:

“According to the National Registry of Exonerations, there have been over 2,500 exonerations since 1989, representing more than 23,950 years that innocent Americans spent in prison. Surprisingly, approximately 12% of these defendants had falsely confessed to committing the crime. This indicates not only that false confessions happen, but that hundreds of people have falsely confessed to crimes that they did not commit.”

The Psychology of False Confessions

Why would an innocent person, in his right mind, confess to a crime that he did not commit? The answer may surprise you.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[photographer4]

None that I recall & I take the post you quoted more speculative/theory as to what might have occurred & less of a statement per se.

JMO

Ok fair enough. Just wasn’t sure if I was further behind than I thought. So no evidence to suggest even soft restraints. Thanks.

 

[snooptroop88]

Do we have any testimony at all that provides evidence of any restraints used? if so, is there a link? I didn’t think there had been any but maybe I’m a bit behind. Ty.

Source: Cicero said he believes the lack of blood on Abby's hands suggested she was either restrained or unconscious when the killer slashed her throat. This is because it's unusual for people who are injured in that way to not touch their wounds in response.

Delphi trial jurors hear from blood specialist who says Libby German was likely dragged

The third week in the double-murder trial of Richard Allen began with testimonies from a forensic scientist and a blood specialist.

www.jconline.com

 

[Melted]

Did she testify or was this an investigator on the stand recounting this?

She didn’t testify to this nor did an investigator testify to it, TMS stated that they heard it in the interview

 

[photographer4]

This has probably been discussed, sorry I’m not recalling….. is it thought by fellow posters that the phone was in Libby’s pocket the whole time after the video recording? And then maybe fell out when her jeans were put on Abby? Then at some point it fell out onto the ground and her body was over it? Incredible and so lucky that he didn’t witness that happening, if so! The chaos that must have been happening

I question this because jurors asked if the ground under Abby had been disturbed and the answer from the witness was no.

“A highlight of the testimony involved a juror who asked whether the undergrowth on the ground where Abby was lying appeared to have been disturbed, which would suggest she was dressed there. Abby was found fully clothed, but she appeared to have been dressed in Libby's clothes. The juror asked the question in the form of a note that was given to the judge.

Brian Olehy, an Indiana State Police crime scene investigator, said there was no indication the area was disturbed.”

Delphi trial witness testifies seeing 'Bridge Guy' on trail: 'I remember I waved to him'

Crime scene investigators took the stand in the case against Richard M. Allen in Delphi.

www.indystar.com

I

 

[MassGuy]

I think that’s a huge part of how we get wrongful convictions that end up overturned later. People do make false confessions. It’s not unheard of even if it seems illogical to some. It makes sense to me in some cases - maybe they want to give up fighting (depression). Maybe they are medicated. Or need it and aren’t. Maybe they’re scared in prison or scared of being released. I don’t know why really, but false confessions do happen and unfortunately often times jurors believe them only to learn later they were false. Moo. A quote for those interested followed by a link to the source:

“According to the National Registry of Exonerations, there have been over 2,500 exonerations since 1989, representing more than 23,950 years that innocent Americans spent in prison. Surprisingly, approximately 12% of these defendants had falsely confessed to committing the crime. This indicates not only that false confessions happen, but that hundreds of people have falsely confessed to crimes that they did not commit.”

The Psychology of False Confessions

Why would an innocent person, in his right mind, confess to a crime that he did not commit? The answer may surprise you.

www.psychologytoday.com

This is the context people keep referring to, and it's the completely wrong one. Allen did not confess to law enforcement, which is what that research is analyzing. This is a completely different situation, with a very different dynamic.

 

[photographer4]

Source: Cicero said he believes the lack of blood on Abby's hands suggested she was either restrained or unconscious when the killer slashed her throat. This is because it's unusual for people who are injured in that way to not touch their wounds in response.

Delphi trial jurors hear from blood specialist who says Libby German was likely dragged

The third week in the double-murder trial of Richard Allen began with testimonies from a forensic scientist and a blood specialist.

www.jconline.com

Thanks. But he wasn’t at the scene, was he? He’s a blood spatter guy - I’m not sure restraints are within his area of expertise but thanks again!

 

[Melted]

I’m completely sickened by the way Richard Allen was treated before his constitutional right to a fair trial.

The fact that this happened in America should terrify everyone here

The fact they let these psychotic ramblings into evidence as confessions is equally appalling

Jmo

 

[MiniMoo]

Quite a noble guy, that RA.
Though an innocent man, he would be willing to accept LWOP in prison to spare his spouse the pressure of his trial.

Look at that character on the Green Mile that was innocent yet he chose the path he did even though...

There are a number of cases where a convicted person and their families have paid the price of guilty when they were in fact innocent.

I need to know without a doubt that the right man is on trial in Delphi.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[snooptroop88]

Thanks. But he wasn’t at the scene, was he? He’s a blood spatter guy - I’m not sure restraints are within his area of expertise but thanks again!

Understood, but he's discussing it in the context with flow of blood, so I'd guess that's why his testimony was permitted (moo).

 

[shonyakay]

I’m completely sickened by the way Richard Allen was treated before his constitutional right to a fair trial.

The fact that this happened in America should terrify everyone here

The fact they let these psychotic ramblings into evidence as confessions is equally appalling

Jmo

Are you forgetting about the 2024 confession (when he was not psychotic) where he was witnessed crying on the bed and said that he was sorry he killed the girls'?

 

[MiniMoo]

WISH TV is reporting that at the end of the interrogation video:

Allen says “arrest me or take me home, I’m done, you’re not going to find anything that connects me to the murders. you’ve lost my trust, now you’ve pissed me off, you’re an (expletive).

In the video, Allen gets up and leaves. News 8’s Kyla Russel says at this point in the courtroom, there is laughter.
Source: Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog

My thought...Interesting reaction in the courtroom.

Did he really say:

"You've lost my trust."

JAAQ - Just Asking A Question.

 

[sunshineray]

I think that’s a huge part of how we get wrongful convictions that end up overturned later. People do make false confessions. It’s not unheard of even if it seems illogical to some. It makes sense to me in some cases - maybe they want to give up fighting (depression). Maybe they are medicated. Or need it and aren’t. Maybe they’re scared in prison or scared of being released. I don’t know why really, but false confessions do happen and unfortunately often times jurors believe them only to learn later they were false. Moo. A quote for those interested followed by a link to the source:

“According to the National Registry of Exonerations, there have been over 2,500 exonerations since 1989, representing more than 23,950 years that innocent Americans spent in prison. Surprisingly, approximately 12% of these defendants had falsely confessed to committing the crime. This indicates not only that false confessions happen, but that hundreds of people have falsely confessed to crimes that they did not commit.”

The Psychology of False Confessions

Why would an innocent person, in his right mind, confess to a crime that he did not commit? The answer may surprise you.

www.psychologytoday.com

In this case I couldn't disagree with that more. There was no coercion, no browbeating under interrogation, RA's conditions were better than most others and his anxiety and depression were not severe enough or genuine enough to warrant thinking he's been strong armed into falsely confessing.

No his problem was the guilt and not wanting to go to h e l l for eternity. That's what ISP Harshman heard over and over. His mental health doctor herself said RA was faking it and the guards trained to spot honest changes in demeaner and deceivers.

I've never been more sure that RA has confessed the truth. He's not an innocent man. He's not been wrongly accused of Abby and Libby's murders. He killed them, just like he said and there's more evidence of his want to atone to come. AJMO

 

[shonyakay]

I need to know without a doubt that the right man is on trial in Delphi.

JMO MOO JMT

Snipped: What would that take in your opinion?

 

[CamilleBSP]

This is the context people keep referring to, and it's the completely wrong one. Allen did not confess to law enforcement, which is what that research is analyzing. This is a completely different situation, with a very different dynamic.

If you read the source closely, at no point they distinguish how the false confessions were elicited to amount to that 12% figure. Unless you can point me to somewhere else where this distinction is made?

When they do divide them in categories in the rest of the article, they make it plenty clear a false confession doesn't have to happen directly to an officer during an interview.

 

[photographer4]

Understood, but he's discussing it in the context with flow of blood, so I'd guess that's why his testimony was permitted (moo).

I see. Ty.

 

[MassGuy]

I’m completely sickened by the way Richard Allen was treated before his constitutional right to a fair trial.

The fact that this happened in America should terrify everyone here

The fact they let these psychotic ramblings into evidence as confessions is equally appalling

Jmo

They were trying to keep a depressed, suicidal man with a massive target on his back, alive.

He had tried to kill himself in the past, and talked about basically welcoming death around the time of his arrest.

Personally, I’d rather him alive than dead.