Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #206

[scapa]

The comment about the moisture marks below Libby's eyes being tears... just made me cry. I'm a 63 year old guy and this is just devastating to hear and picture in your mind.

Hearing this has to be almost unbearable for the family in the courtroom.

I want to here the confessions: It is second nature to deny early on, and then later realize keeping up the lie is worse on sleeping at night than coming clean and admitting your guilt.

I think they have a decent case against him with lots of circumstantial and eyewitness testimony (including RA's interviews). The big thing will be his confessions which is why they are leaving that to the end.

Me too. A small, extraordinarily powerful detail that seemingly went uncovered by a few outlets initially.

And yet it's what I remember from that stream of testimony. Not the blood, not the wound patterns -- just the tearmarks on the face of a child who cannot have been equipped to make sense of the brutalities inflicted on her and her friend, on an unseasonably warm scheduled "snow day" on a trail walk that should have been easy catch up between kindred spirits.

Those clear, faint stains, that somehow survived the carnage. There is for me no crueller or more eloquent image of the horrors of that day.

As you say, heartbreaking.

 

[SouthEnd]

And I'd say the fact that they "misplaced" this information for years on years is just one more thing that concerns me in this case. MOO.

Yeah I do worry that someone out there might have tried to have RA's back out of some misplaced sense of neighborliness. That would explain why he was marked cleared without any followup.

All MOO

 

[Melted]

Is there? What is the reasonable doubt to you? And who do you think was BG? An unidentified male that RA did not himself see?

Very possible. There are more ways to get to that area than the main path. JMO

 

[photographer4]

Yes, he said he was wearing his blue jeans and his black Carhartt jacket.

Know what he was not wearing? White wash jeans.. The guy Sc said she saw was wearing white wash pants. 'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

 

[MassGuy]

And I'd say the fact that they "misplaced" this information for years on years is just one more thing that concerns me in this case. MOO.

Do you genuinely believe they’d spend years chasing their tails, extensively investigating numerous people, if they actually knew they had this misfiled piece of paper?

That makes zero sense, and is wholly refuted by the facts.

That statement was in fact misfiled, with his name transposed with his address.

Kathy Shank explained on the stand, exactly how she found it, and what came next.

This delay brought them back to a place that they should have been all along. This conspiracy stuff is baseless and gets us nowhere.

 

[tlcya]

Ok there are confirmed nerds in the jury, and I say this with utmost admiration. Someone from the jury was asking the DNA expert 'how do they eliminate chimera DNA when testing' and I was shocked - it is something that in my decades of following true and fictional crime might have cropped up like once. According to the MS even the DNA expert was impressed with the question.

It was in this episode: The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Nine: Crime Scene Analysis

Chimera DNA: Chimera (genetics) - Wikipedia

maybe they watched the CSI Las Vegas episode S4.E23 years ago, that is where I learned about chimerism. fascinating stuff.

 

[otto]

I'm pretty sure DNA is considered direct evidence but yes, I agree there is always room for conspiracy theories if one is inclined.

DNA is circumstantial evidence.

"DNA evidence constitutes circumstantial evidence used to identify the perpetrator of a serious crime by comparing the DNA profile of a suspect with the DNA profile of a bodily substance found at the crime scene or on or in something associated with the crime. It can provide compelling evidence linking a suspect to the crime. It is not in itself proof of guilt."

FPT HEADS OF PROSECUTIONS COMMITTEE REPORT OF THE WORKING GROUP ON THE PREVENTION OF MISCARRIAGES OF JUSTICE

Department of Justice Canada's Internet site

www.justice.gc.ca

 

[Jade]

RA: get Mom out of the way so she is not doing any interruptin'. Check



imo

 

[tlcya]

Proof please! Otherwise it's just "IMO".

not the OP but I think they were being facetious.

 

[FrostedGlass]

In RA's PCA, RA relayed he was wearing blue jeans and a blue or black jacket.

Yes it does but his recorded interview tells a different story. I'll believe what he actually said.

 

[photographer4]

Yeah I do worry that someone out there might have tried to have RA's back out of some misplaced sense of neighborliness. That would explain why he was marked cleared without any followup.

All MOO

Yeah... I worry a lot about the same issue, but not in regards to RA. Moo.

 

[SouthEnd]

maybe they watched the CSI Las Vegas episode S4.E23 years ago, that is where I learned about chimerism. fascinating stuff.

Ah I never watched CSI Las Vegas! See, I'd be a better sleuth for it.

Joking aside, I am impressed by their questions. They focus on methodology and processes, they understand phones and data much better than the average coworkers I've had. Even if all the questions come from a single juror, since they are allowed to discuss amongst themselves as long as they are all present, I hope that person helps with any questions.

All MOO

 

[Emma Peel]

i don’t get how manipulating the BG image would fool anyone. The jury has seen the original video. The defence and state can obviously say where approximately BG was standing when captured.

there is no way to trick anyone.

the D efforts to establish the innocence of Bridge Guy are bizarre to me.

MOO

Have we heard that the P has rested?
Have the D's started their case?

(I cannot keep up on the daily drip drip. I try to do so at night tho.)

 

[tlcya]

Ah I never watched CSI Las Vegas! See, I'd be a better sleuth for it.

Joking aside, I am impressed by their questions. They focus on methodology and processes, they understand phones and data much better than the average coworkers I've had. Even if all the questions come from a single juror, since they are allowed to discuss amongst themselves as long as they are all present, I hope that person helps with any questions.

All MOO

yes, very encouraging, we know at least one juror is paying very close attention to the science, which is the thing that tends to get most jurors lost (JMO). This is great news.

 

[Shadowtrix]

Another thing I have started to wonder more about lately, especially in light of those saying one person couldn’t have possibly done all of this alone. I’ve started to wonder if the killer forced one of the victims to help restrain the other.

 

[shonyakay]

Yes it does but his recorded interview tells a different story. I'll believe what he actually said.

But you haven't seen it.

 

[heartandsoul]

Very possible. There are more ways to get to that area than the main path. JMO

Whilst I agree that cannot be ruled out, I’m gonna need more than just it being a possibility to dismiss the sheer amount of things pointing at RA = BG for me to believe it.

It may or may not be enough for the jury when the defence take their turn.

 

[BUF]

RA: get Mom out of the way so she is not doing any interruptin'. Check



imo

Yeah. That “quick” 15 minute visit to see old mom.

 

[KSwizzle]

I've not put much thought into whether RA could accomplish it all by himself, but to be fair he is what 5'4", not trim at the time, and had a heart attack and stents put in at some point before the murders

 

[SouthEnd]

Know what he was not wearing? White wash jeans.. The guy Sc said she saw was wearing white wash pants. 'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

I wish there was video of my only time giving a description to LE. (I swear I am not haunted by bad luck, I've lived in London for years and years and all my brushes with criminality are the norm where I live!)

Someone on a bicycle snatched my phone, and because it happened while I was on my way to the hospital (I think they might have thought I was injured?) the LE came to take my statement. I had ran after the bike mind you, for quite a while, so I THOUGHT I had a great idea of what that... lovely man looked like.

The actual description I gave? I said the bicycle was orange, and then as I was saying that, I was no longer sure. Orange or actually red? Or maybe it had a stripe of bright orange, because bicycles are not orange, so that would be impossible right? Also the guy looked like my childhood friend. No, I did not see his face, at all. But the back of his hand... had the same kind of hair???

Long story short, I hope no one here ever needs to give a description of a perp/suspect, because in that moment you realise just how floaty memory is. HOEVER: I was 100% sure that if they showed me a photo of the bike I'd know it right away. In fact I kept looking at bikes for months afterwards and I kept thinking nope, not this one, no way.

All these to say: Descriptions from memory are fluid. We observe a couple of elements when looking at ppl and the brain fills in the rest. However our brains are VERY good at identifying things we have seen - that's how we recognise the people and the places we know. That's why I give very low trust in the actual descriptions, and much more in the ability of ppl to match a memory to an image.

All MOO