Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #207

[sripey]

It’s… peculiar. Shows defense was caught off-guard by BW’s answers.

JMO

According to Murder Sheet, defense attorney Baldwin started the cross examination of BW by asking something along the line of "Isn't it true that you were out of town a week before the murders?". Prosecution objected on grounds that the question was outside of scope of his direct testimony. Bench meeting ensued, after which Baldwin was noticably angry (according to MS). Baldwin then suggested that BW didn't drive straight home and that he worked on some ATMs. BW said he worked on the ATMs in the morning and was vehement about driving directly there. Baldwin ended his cross and gave him a subpoena.

 

[sunshineray]

It’s… peculiar. Shows defense was caught off-guard by BW’s answers.

JMO

I thought so too, very peculiar. They must have deposed him right?

 

[minor4th]

Just a quick observation - I think the timelines and various witness statements are all incredibly hard to follow and reconcile for regular people who haven’t been studying the details of the case for years. I know I have trouble with it, and I have been following pretty closely since the arrest.

 

[oviedo]

It’s definitely not standard office procedure for mental health professionals.

I know you are a verified attorney are you also a verified mental health professional? I’m curious about your comments regarding the practices of mental health professionals…

 

[m00c0w]

I think without a subpoena he wouldn't have to come back would he? I always thought if a witness was at risk for not showing up you issue a subpoena. I wouldn't imagine he'd want to testify for people that have tried to say he was involved.

IMO

Eh. Usually after testifying you’re reminded that you’re subject to recall by either side, so be prepared to come back in. They were already subpoenaed because they appeared. The second subpoena is probably unnecessary and largely performative. A threat of “Oh yeah, I’ll see you in court!”, but… you’re already in court. Not quite as effective.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I think without a subpoena he wouldn't have to come back would he? I always thought if a witness was at risk for not showing up you issue a subpoena. I wouldn't imagine he'd want to testify for people that have tried to say he was involved.

IMO

But I've never seen someone subpoenaed on the stand. Does he live far away? Maybe that's why, or they couldn't find an address, he moved?

 

[NoeticSoul]

As soon as the psychologist took a personal crime-junkie interest in the murders (visiting the crime scene, participating in online discussions), she was no longer impartial. It's possible, not certain, that she became a care provider with an agenda. In my opinion, that's a problem regarding the confessions that she elicited from the accused.

Totally respect your perspective! Open mined, I am

 

[minor4th]

I know you are a verified attorney are you also a verified mental health professional? I’m curious about your comments regarding the practices of mental health professionals…

I have a lot of experience dealing with mental health professionals in trial. Not a single one has ever destroyed their notes. Even Wala admitted it wasn’t standard practice in the industry.

So no I’m not an expert but my comments are based on my observations and experience, which are not insignificant.

 

[sunshineray]

Just a quick observation - I think the timelines and various witness statements are all incredibly hard to follow and reconcile for regular people who haven’t been studying the details of the case for years. I know I have trouble with it, and I have been following pretty closely since the arrest.

I have confidence the jury will figure that out in deliberations. NMcL can always give them a good accounting in his closing statements too.

 

[ClearAhead]

I didn’t see this White Van coming even though both NM and JH gave out pretty obvious clues of what to expect. JMO

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/state-defense-deliver-opening-statements-in-delphi-murders-trial/

“McLeland said Allen planned to “have his way” with the girls but was interrupted and then killed them.”

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-trial-isp-lt-recounts-richard-allens-arrest-interviews/

Holeman said he believed the sticks were used to camouflage the girls’ bodies, rather than be used to position them in a certain way.

He does, however, think Allen “…may have heard somebody”, such as a car, that interrupted him during the murder. “Before he killed them, after, I don’t know.”

 

[MassGuy]

I think it's quite powerful evidence for the jury. I'm hearing tomorrow there will be more audio, a couple hours worth I think. I wish we were hearing all this first hand

The confessions are getting stronger as we go along. We had the prison guards yesterday, the psychologist today, and tomorrow it will be recorded confessions.

The most important one for me so far was when he talked about visiting his parents, not having lunch with them, drinking beer, and then heading out to the trail. That's a totally coherent and believable set of events that would not be in discovery.

Other bits we've learned include his claims of being an alcoholic, that he was molested and molested others, and had mental health issues prior to his incarceration (to include thoughts of suicide). These are important as they are common traits of offenders who commit crimes like this (disorganized, sexually motivated).

I think tomorrow is going to put the prosecution over the edge.

 

[Boxer]

The responsible party to do what?

Nothing can alter the fact the tip was found and DD testified he met with RA accordingly.

Nothing alters the fact it was found. However MOO it needs to be understood that the approriate oversight of tips was not completed nor apparently even assigned.

 

[KSwizzle]

For me, it’s not even that I don’t think he couldn’t be the murderer, he absolutely could be and seems like he is.

It’s just the constant shoddy investigations, failure of chain of command, misplaced evidence, no testing, bad prosecutorial experts, refusing outside (fbi or other) help, etc, etc, that is so depressing I feel like I can set my watch to it. On top of that to me it seems like a top down refusal to take accountability for these things as well overall

Thank god Sarah Boone literally recorded herself committing her crime because even there if she didn’t who knows

All my speculations and opinions it’s just depressing this could have been solved within a week if someone actually just followed up on a lead of the only, only male who said he was there at the time

 

[Spartygirl]

You are correct, no volunteer, clerk, or dispatcher is responsible for "clearing witnesses" it is at a lead detective level with approval of their supervisor.
Unless there was intentional deception there is one person who bears responsibilty, the Sheriff.

But, she is NOT the one that " Cleared" the witness.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

According to Murder Sheet, defense attorney Baldwin started the cross examination of BW by asking something along the line of "Isn't it true that you were out of town a week before the murders?". Prosecution objected on grounds that the question was outside of scope of his direct testimony. Bench meeting ensued, after which Baldwin was noticably angry (according to MS). Baldwin then suggested that BW didn't drive straight home and that he worked on some ATMs. BW said he worked on the ATMs in the morning and was vehement about driving directly there. Baldwin ended his cross and gave him a subpoena.

Thanks.

I was wondering what the witness had to say about the defense claim he worked on the ATM's on the way home from work which would obviously affect the timeline.

So it's looks like the timeline fits as long as this witness didn't lie today on the stand. JMO.

 

[sunshineray]

The confessions are getting stronger as we go along. We had the prison guards yesterday, the psychologist today, and tomorrow it will be recorded confessions.

The most important one for me so far was when he talked about visiting his parents, not having lunch with them, drinking beer, and then heading out to the trail. That's a totally coherent and believable set of events that would not be in discovery.

Other bits we've learned include his claims of being an alcoholic, that he was molested and molested others, and had mental health issues prior to his incarceration (to include thoughts of suicide). These are important as they are common traits of offenders who commit crimes like this (disorganized, sexually motivated).

I think tomorrow is going to put the protection over the edge.

I really think BW's testimony and RA confirming seeing him, interrupting him, while he had the girls there DTH was strong evidence.

 

[Boxer]

For me, it’s not even that I don’t think he couldn’t be the murderer, he absolutely could be and seems like he is.

It’s just the constant shoddy investigations, failure of chain of command, misplaced evidence, no testing, bad prosecutorial experts, refusing outside (fbi or other) help, etc, etc, that is so depressing I feel like I can set my watch to it. On top of that to me it seems like a top down refusal to take accountability for these things as well overall

Thank god Sarah Boone literally recorded herself committing her crime because even there if she didn’t who knows

All my speculations and opinions it’s just depressing this could have been solved within a week if someone actually just followed up on a lead of the only, only male who said he was there at the time

If someone had been assigned to managing their most valuable asset, the statements coming in.
Even if "cleared" whatever that is, RA should have been a push pin on a map of the trail with the others.

 

[minor4th]

The confessions are getting stronger as we go along. We had the prison guards yesterday, the psychologist today, and tomorrow it will be recorded confessions.

The most important one for me so far was when he talked about visiting his parents, not having lunch with them, drinking beer, and then heading out to the trail. That's a totally coherent and believable set of events that would not be in discovery.

Other bits we've learned include his claims of being an alcoholic, that he was molested and molested others, and had mental health issues prior to his incarceration (to include thoughts of suicide). These are important as they are common traits of offenders who commit crimes like this (disorganized, sexually motivated).

I think tomorrow is going to put the protection over the edge.

That particular confession was the most specific and detailed for sure.

 

[Boxer]

But, she is NOT the one that " Cleared" the witness.

She is not a responsible party, the sworn officers are.

 

[minor4th]

For me, it’s not even that I don’t think he couldn’t be the murderer, he absolutely could be and seems like he is.

It’s just the constant shoddy investigations, failure of chain of command, misplaced evidence, no testing, bad prosecutorial experts, refusing outside (fbi or other) help, etc, etc, that is so depressing I feel like I can set my watch to it. On top of that to me it seems like a top down refusal to take accountability for these things as well overall

Thank god Sarah Boone literally recorded herself committing her crime because even there if she didn’t who knows

All my speculations and opinions it’s just depressing this could have been solved within a week if someone actually just followed up on a lead of the only, only male who said he was there at the time

I agree with you. It’s a tragedy the way this case was handled whether RA is guilty or not.