Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #207

[otto]

He absolutely did skip over a major part. He’s freaked out by the van so he kills them, but when did their fricken clothes come off?!

These guys do seem to typically downplay their crimes, or blame their victims. Here we see the former.

He also claimed at some point that he made sure they were dead so they didn’t suffer.

Those girls bled out for several minutes. At best he left before they were dead, and at worst he watched them die.

Libby died with tears rolling down her cheeks. Abby's first injury was fatal, but she bled out. Libby's first injury was not fatal, so her blood is found in several locations, including the side of a tree. She was nearly decapitated, and she bled out. He had an hour with them. He dragged Libby's body nearer the tree before leaving, but there's no DNA to prove that. Blood evidence proves that. Then he cleaned up by putting their clothes in the creek, tossing sticks on them.

Does anyone recall whether the clothes were upstream or downstream? I read that they were not in the direction that was searched first. It might help to understand the route he took from the crime scene to his car.

This is the early sketch from trial evidence. There's blood across a 7-8 foot diameter (estimation based on body length).

 

[MassGuy]

After today's testimony from Dr. Walla, it looks like the case is over. I think the probability of Richard Allen being convicted went up to 99.9%.

Richard Allen gave a confession to Dr. Walla where he talked about being interrupted during the crime by a person driving a van. The state then presented someone who happened to be arriving home at the same time as the crime who lives near the crime scene area who was driving a van.

Then the investigators showed that only 1 2016 black Ford Focus SE was registered in Carroll County, Indiana to a Richard Allen so even if the police cannot identify who was driving or the license plate, it seems like it was most likely Richard Allen who was caught on camera driving past the Hoosier Harvest store.

I thought Richard Allen might be innocent. The way he denied killing Abigial Williams and Liberty German so vehemently, I really believed it.

Today was very important, and I think tomorrow will be even bigger for the prosecution.

We can't forget though. The defense is going to get the ball, and they'll attempt to poke holes in everything we've heard. They'll say that the conditions in which Allen was held caused him offer up false confessions. They'll say those confessions were based on his knowledge of what was in the discovery documents. They'll call a ballistics expert to cast doubt on the bullet analysis. They'll attack the investigation, calling it sloppy. They'll point fingers at alternate suspects, and downplay the prosecution's case at every opportunity.

Some of those things they may be able to do quite effectively, so I think it's just too early to predict where this will end up in a couple weeks.

 

[Willow Knight]

Poor guy is going to get thrown under the bus by the DT.

How many lives are being attacked by this DT? Accusing innocent people of the crime, leaks of CS photo that ended in the death of another, the families of the victims, and now this.

All this support for an accused child killer. Telling the killer to keep his mouth shut, don't confess, blame innocents for the crime, false accusations of improper treatment in prison, attacking the guards...it goes on and on.

I really don't know how some people can sleep at night.

Abby and Libby we stand by you!

 

[StarryStarryNight]

 

[gremlin444]

This was a great question! How could RA have seen or heard a car or a BW if the last movement of the phone was 2:32 - the same time that BW arrived? Weren’t they already across the creek if the phone had stopped moving? Have I misunderstood where BW is - is that not the house at the south end where DTH was said? Genuine questions. Ty.

Libby films BG and Down the Hill at 2:13.

BW leaves work at 2:02 as a 1st shift worker at Subaru--likely has to punch in and out w/timecard/employee number or scan a keycard. He says it takes 20-25 min to arrive to his parents' house. So he could be arriving anytime between 2:22 and 2:27.

2:31 cell phone shows change in longitude, altitude and elevation
2:32 p.m. is the last known movement of the phone.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wishtv.com

Delphi Murders trial: Day 11 live blog

Richard Allen, accused of murdering two teenage girls in Delphi, Indiana, is on trial and Day 11 of the trial began with testimony from several witnesses including Steve Mullin, John Galipeau, Ethan Drang, and Michael Clemons.

wishtv.com

 

[MassGuy]

13 Things To Know From The #Delphi Murders Trial Today - Oct 30

1. Devastating testimony today against Richard Allen. Unlike the relatively generic confessions that corrections officers discussed Tues, today jurors heard about far more detailed statements made by Allen. #wthr

https://twitter.com/x/status/1851821706723180779

 

[otto]

I have thought about this as well - he clearly wasn’t rushing to set the scene really, was he?

RA was rushing. From 2:13 - 2:32, he forced the girls to cross the creek and walk up the ravine. As they were going up the ravine, the man with the white van on the other side of the creek returned home. RA probably saw the van, and forced the girls higher, more in the trees.

 

[photographer4]

I think you're possibly underestimating just how much sound can carry in a rural area, in a river valley. When I lived in a rural area, we heard a car long before we ever saw it, if we saw it at all.

The killer of the girls was on high alert. I'm sure it sounded like that van was about three feet behind him, when it probably wasn't even in view yet.

MOO

Ok, but the way I understood it was they *crossed* the creek *bc* he heard the car? Is this not correct? Seriously asking!

 

[Warwick7]

The sad thing is he still appears to have Libby naked within minutes of seeing the van. He just aborted his original crime scene for a less public one. Her phone, which she put under her shoe, stops movement at 2:32 pm. It would make sense that is when she undressed because Abby is found dressed her in her clothes with the shoe and phone under her. I think she got redressed from that pile of clothes and immediately RA ceased her movement, never realizing what was under the one shoe.

Libby had the brains and courage to video the BG.
Then...she had the smarts to hide the phone under a shoe which ended up under Abby, along with her own tears.
She really deserves credit!!!
Someone really trained some smart thinking in this young woman!
Boom! Bam! Because of her courage we are here today!

 

[katydid23]

I think it’s suspicious to destroy notes for a patient who is facing trial. The notes are the best evidence.

Didn't she say she typed her notes into a saved Word file and then destroyed the handwritten notes?

 

[Boxer]

Snipped by me; are there any links that Indiana refused FBI help? From what I recall during the trial the D kept implying it and the LE refuted those claims. Where is that information coming from, do we have documented proof that the relations between the agencies broke down?

A genuine question, since I've only seen DT alleging it without any data thus far.

The FBI brought their mobile electronic forensic lab and also engaged the top digital know-how in the country to extract Libby's phone data.

 

[m00c0w]

Ok, but the way I understood it was they *crossed* the creek *bc* he heard the car? Is this not correct? Seriously asking!

Yes, that is correct. The phone moving around 2:25 aligns with BW returning home after leaving at 2:02 for a 20-25 minute trip. They walked up 20 feet of elevation from 2:25-2:31, which is consistent with the far bank of the creek. Phone stops logging activity at 2:32, likely in its final resting place until police discover it.

The timeline is solid.

JMO

 

[lisette]

Thank you! Found these topo maps. PDFs can be downloaded. Orange arrow is my best estimation of where the bodies were discovered. Please let me know if the location should be adjusted. These maps illustrate your point - across the river (North), part way up the ravine at 2:30 (elevation change), then the phone stopped working at 2:32.

The man who lives near the bridge (South side of creek) was no where near the girls when they stopped moving.

View attachment 541905

https://www.yellowmaps.com/usgs/topomaps/drg24/30p/o40086e6.jpg

Delphi topographic map 1:24,000 scale, Indiana

Delphi topographic map in Indiana viewable online in JPG format as a free download. Digital topo map DVD and paper map purchase of the Delphi USGS topo quad at 1:24,000 scale. Gazetteer of geographical features showing elevation, relief.

www.yellowmaps.com

The road BW would’ve been traveling on is across the creek, down from where your arrow is. He could’ve been coming down that road anywhere from 2:22 to 2:27, pulling in the driveway by 2:30. He could’ve passed very close to where RA and the girls were, forcing RA to cross the creek quickly, with them arriving at the killing spot by 2:32, at which point the phone stopped showing movement. Perhaps he was very still and forced the girls to be very still and quiet until he was sure that the van had passed. I think everything lines up perfectly with his confession and with the arrival of BW in his van.

 

[otto]

BW left at 2:02, and the drive is 20-25 minutes. This puts him getting home at 2:22-2:27.

1:31 pm – 2:08 pm – 1,682 steps (707.34 meters)
2:08 pm – 2:18 pm – 414.38 meters
2:25 pm – 2:32 pm – 66 steps (50.64 meters)
2:31 pm – two-floor elevation change

Cecil’s testimony explained the iPhone uses 10 feet as its estimation for distance for a “floor,” meaning the two-floor elevation change would be about 20 feet. The Health App, he explained, doesn’t record a duration for the elevation change. He said that it happened during the steps taken from 2:25 pm to 2:32 pm.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/he-was-covered-in-mud-and-blood-bridge-guy-witness-testimonies-continue/

The movement from 2:25-2:32 would be consistent with BW coming home and interrupting RA, sending the girls up the creek bank resulting in a 20ft elevation change.

Delphi topographic map 1:24,000 scale, Indiana

Delphi topographic map in Indiana viewable online in JPG format as a free download. Digital topo map DVD and paper map purchase of the Delphi USGS topo quad at 1:24,000 scale. Gazetteer of geographical features showing elevation, relief.

www.yellowmaps.com

 

[katydid23]

Cue the next conspiracy theory...

moo

Exactly. The D already said that they believe the girls got into a car and were driven away from the W's driveway.

And they have already said the gun owned by BW possibly matches the cartridge from CS.

And now they can say he arrived at the scene of the crime just as it unfolded.

 

[photographer4]

I think you're possibly underestimating just how much sound can carry in a rural area, in a river valley. When I lived in a rural area, we heard a car long before we ever saw it, if we saw it at all.

The killer of the girls was on high alert. I'm sure it sounded like that van was about three feet behind him, when it probably wasn't even in view yet.

MOO

Prison psychologist discusses Richard Allen’s alleged confessions on Day 11 of Delphi murders trial

The trial continues for the man accused of killing two teenage girls in Delphi more than seven years ago.

www.21alivenews.com

“He said he planned on a sexual assault but saw a van, “got scared” and decided not to, crossed the creek and “cut necks” before covering the bodies with branches.”

So that sounds like he was on the SOUTH end with the kids when he heard a car and then crossed? So you’re suggesting the sound of the car coming long before he ever would have seen it? I don’t know how that works really - how much notice would he have had on an approaching vehicle? Not moo I’m asking!

 

[sunshineray]

As soon as the psychologist took a personal crime-junkie interest in the murders (visiting the crime scene, participating in online discussions), she was no longer impartial. It's possible, not certain, that she became a care provider with an agenda. In my opinion, that's a problem regarding the confessions that she elicited from the accused.

Sounds to me like RA didn't need any inducing to confess over 61 times. If a person is wracked with guilt over something they normally want to get it off their shoulders. That had nothing to do with Dr. Wala's internet activities or walks on a trail. RA would have confessed to the janitor if he gave him a kind ear, not the cold shoulder like his family members or absence like his attorneys.
AJMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

They were a little further south than that. This is the map I posted the other day in a prior thread, source is USGS:

View attachment 541912
That was my best estimation from the GPS coordinates in the RL search warrant affidavit.

When BW interrupted them, though, they would have been on the other side of the creek. The gray line going through that area is essentially his driveway. The bridge is not on the map, but the interruption (based on today’s testimony) would have likely been on the flat area south of the crime scene on the opposite side of the creek. The road being up on the ridge right there is consistent with RA’s description of seeing the van.

JMO

Here is another link that may be helpful. You can see the owner parcels by the creek and the driveway.

https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=377&LayerID=5553&PageTypeID=1&KeyValue=08-06-22-000-015.000-006

 

[shonyakay]

Libby German's phone data analyzed at Delphi double-murder trial: 'You need to call me now!'

The analysis comes as defense attorneys are trying to introduce the Odinism theory into Richard Allen's double-murder trial.

abc7chicago.com

Actually Moo, not to nit pick but this link says both. The elevation changed AND the phone stopped moving at 2:32pm. It changed elevation at 2:31 then:

“By 2:32 p.m., Cecil testified the phone stopped and never moved again. He told the court it didn't ping anywhere outside the trails, Deer Creek and the site where the girls' bodies were found the next day.”

If the phone was already across the creek by the time BW got home from wherever he may have been, how could RA have seen him/ the vehicle? I’m confused and very sleepy so maybe I’ve missed something? Pls send coffee! Ty. Not moo - am actually asking because I think I misunderstood something.

This is the view from the top of the bridge looking down the hill. That road you see is the road N625W that leads to the Weber property.



If you go straight across that road, it leads through more woods and to the creek. Articles of the girls' clothing were found in the creek. Some were closer to the Down the Hill side of the creek and some were closer to the discovery side of the creek.

I placed a small x where "BG" forced the girls' down the hill. The arrow shows their approximate direction of travel after RA says he got interrupted by Weber returning home.

The big X is the approximate area where the girls' were discovered.

 

[otto]

They were a little further south than that. This is the map I posted the other day in a prior thread, source is USGS:

View attachment 541912
That was my best estimation from the GPS coordinates in the RL search warrant affidavit.

When BW interrupted them, though, they would have been on the other side of the creek. The gray line going through that area is essentially his driveway. The bridge is not on the map, but the interruption (based on today’s testimony) would have likely been on the flat area south of the crime scene on the opposite side of the creek. The road being up on the ridge right there is consistent with RA’s description of seeing the van.

JMO

RA is lying when he claims that the man in the white van interrupted him, so he killed the girls.

Libby was on the North side of the creek when the white van arrived at home. He did not interrupt RA, who went on to spend an hour with the girls.