Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #207

[dub]

When I was in therapy, my therapist took notes by hand while we talked.. it was more personal that way. She told me she would write up these notes to store online later.. not sure if that is a word document or what, but she took the notes she made and typed them up. I dont think it's odd that this is what they do in the prison.. I'm not sure she could bring her computer to the prison cells.. likely notes made it easier to refer to later in her office to type them up.

Of course the defense would make this act of "Destroying" her notes seem nefarious. I bet if you asked she did the exact same thing for every single patient she has.

Can confirm - I’m a therapist and I do exactly the same thing.

[When they are typed up, it’s typically done in some kind of encrypted/HIPAA compliant online software such as Simple Practice just fyi ]

 

[New Penny]

I’d like to know too. It seems like the defense was making a show of it.

Yes. Isn’t the usual protocol to ask the judge to not release them by informing the witness they may be recalled to the witness stand?

 

[Tricia]

Be sure and participate in our Websleuths Delphi poll.
CLICK HERE and weigh in on the case

 

[Jealoushe]

There's a map in this video that shows BW house in relation to the crime scene & bridge.

 

[otto]

The road BW would’ve been traveling on is across the creek, down from where your arrow is. He could’ve been coming down that road anywhere from 2:22 to 2:27, pulling in the driveway by 2:30. He could’ve passed very close to where RA and the girls were, forcing RA to cross the creek quickly, with them arriving at the killing spot by 2:32, at which point the phone stopped showing movement. Perhaps he was very still and forced the girls to be very still and quiet until he was sure that the van had passed. I think everything lines up perfectly with his confession and with the arrival of BW in his van.

True, but RA was not interrupted. That part is not true.
He continued to assault the girls for another hour.

 

[photographer4]

BW left at 2:02, and the drive is 20-25 minutes. This puts him getting home at 2:22-2:27.


1:31 pm – 2:08 pm – 1,682 steps (707.34 meters)
2:08 pm – 2:18 pm – 414.38 meters
2:25 pm – 2:32 pm – 66 steps (50.64 meters)
2:31 pm – two-floor elevation change


Cecil’s testimony explained the iPhone uses 10 feet as its estimation for distance for a “floor,” meaning the two-floor elevation change would be about 20 feet. The Health App, he explained, doesn’t record a duration for the elevation change. He said that it happened during the steps taken from 2:25 pm to 2:32 pm.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/he-was-covered-in-mud-and-blood-bridge-guy-witness-testimonies-continue/

The movement from 2:25-2:32 would be consistent with BW coming home and interrupting RA, sending the girls up the creek bank resulting in a 20ft elevation change.

Hrm. Ty for trying to explain. I may just need a lot more sleep to absorb this.

 

[m00c0w]

View attachment 541918

Delphi topographic map 1:24,000 scale, Indiana

Delphi topographic map in Indiana viewable online in JPG format as a free download. Digital topo map DVD and paper map purchase of the Delphi USGS topo quad at 1:24,000 scale. Gazetteer of geographical features showing elevation, relief.

www.yellowmaps.com

Gray Hughes <modsnip> has developed some of the best mapping I've seen regarding the case. I just scrubbed through tonight's livestream, and he did show a map towards the beginning that I believe to be fairly accurate. I've attached the original that I'm leaving as a thumbnail, but this is my annotated version of the map with the specific topic we're discussing:

My annotations are in blue. The pins and red annotations are from GH.

 

[Warwick7]

We'll see what aggravation they bring, but IMO they'll try hard to impeach BW on any detail in order to cast assertion on his credibility. But it doesn't matter. The jury don't have to evaluate BW's credibility. His cellphone and vehicle data will speak for him.

JMO

Oh @Megnut you nailed this!
I remember sitting on the edge of my couch on pins and needles when
Donald Demarino testified in Tammy Moorer's trial.

He was a convicted criminal who'd done time for burglary and drug charges. The defense demanded to call his character and credibility into question. Yes he saw that picture of Heather. He saw what he saw.

BW's credulity will be forced. But, I have no doubt he will prevail.
And the jury will take all of this into account, to the benefit of Libby and Abby.

 

[photographer4]

There's a map in this video that shows BW house in relation to the crime scene & bridge.

Ty!

 

[photographer4]

Gray Huges, regardless of how you feel about his opinions, has developed some of the best mapping I've seen regarding the case. I just scrubbed through tonight's livestream, and he did show a map towards the beginning that I believe to be fairly accurate. I've attached the original that I'm leaving as a thumbnail, but this is my annotated version of the map with the specific topic we're discussing:
View attachment 541923
My annotations are in blue. The pins and red annotations are from GH.

Has Grey been in the courtroom? I don’t follow him - ty

 

[roeashl1]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

“In the meantime - However, Walla's involvement in the case became a focus during cross-examination. The defense questioned her decision to access the Department of Corrections database and participate in online discussions, podcasts, and social media pages about the case, raising concerns about her impartiality.“

Delphi Double Murder Trial Day 11: Allen's former psychologist takes the stand

DELPHI, Ind. (WLFI) – Day 11 of the Delphi double homicide trial for Richard Allen, accused of the 2017 murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, got underway Wednesday.

www.wlfi.com

How do we know what their database has in it? Is there info on witnesses? Their statements? Cars noted in the area? I don’t think she helped the states case as much as they hoped. Moo.

She looked up Kegan Kline in the database if that’s what you’re asking.

 

[m00c0w]

Has Grey been in the courtroom? I don’t follow him - ty

No, but that's irrelevant. I'm just using his map to overlay what we discovered in court today through my own annotations.

 

[Amber29]

That is interesting.

As a counterpoint, my wife is a licensed mental health professional in our state and she almost exclusively takes digital notes. If she takes written notes, she transfers them to the electronic record during her admin time and shreds or discards the written notes depending on how detailed they are. This is true for the other members of her practice as well.

Just an anecdote and just my (wife’s?) opinion.

This seems like bad practice when you are treating a patient that is awaiting trial for murder. I mean computers crash and you risk losing everything. It was certainly not just your everyday patient she was treating here and she knew this.

 

[photographer4]

View attachment 541916

'I killed Abby and Libby': Prison psychologist says Richard Allen confessed to Delphi murders

"I killed Abby and Libby," Allen reportedly said. "I will kill everyone. I will wipe out everybody," Dr. Monica Wala testified.

www.indystar.com

Apparently the D argued make and model not visible on HH footage / out of town visitors not accounted for and brought up neighbouring areas.

 

[photographer4]

No, but that's irrelevant. I'm just using his map to overlay what we discovered in court today through my own annotations.

Well I was wondering because if he isn’t in court, he doesn’t have access to the exhibits does he? So what is he basing this off? Does he have the “first location” confirmed somehow or? I’m just trying to decide how much weight to give him here as a source is all. Ty in advance.

 

[otto]

Sounds to me like RA didn't need any inducing to confess over 61 times. If a person is wracked with guilt over something they normally want to get it off their shoulders. That had nothing to do with Dr. Wala's internet activities or walks on a trail. RA would have confessed to the janitor if he gave him a kind ear, not the cold shoulder like his family members or absence like his attorneys.
AJMO

Under normal circumstances, yes. However, the psychologist who documented many of those confessions was both his psychologist, and a crime-junkie who was following these murders to the same degree as most of us. No one in these types of discussions is entirely impartial when it comes to giving an opinion, professional or otherwise.

If the first confession was given to Wala, then I would be inclined to discredit all confessions on the basis that the role of psychologist Wala was tainted and compromised.

It is her professional responsibility to remain impartial. She failed to do that.

Who heard the first confession? Was that person in a position of authority where she could manipulate RA (mentally fragile, etc.) into repeating that confession? If the first person he confessed to was not Dr. Wala, then we know RA would confess regardless of meeting Dr. Wala. Then her unprofessional activities are less relevant.

 

[m00c0w]

This seems like bad practice when you are treating a patient that is awaiting trial for murder. I mean computers crash and you risk losing everything. It was certainly not just your everyday patient she was treating here and she knew this.

And fires, floods, theft can destroy the written record. I honestly don't see her transferring written notes to electronic notes as that big of a deal, and it feels like the only reason it's portrayed as a big deal is because the defense is trying to use that to somehow make her testimony less credible. Of all of the things she did, that's the most normal.

JMO

 

[al66pine]

Serrated Blades & Box Cutters.

Exactly! Some of us veteran members on this site have heard enough expert testimony to know that there is a big difference in the wounds if you use a serrated blade vs. a smooth blade. I've never heard of a box cutter having a serrated blade. RA was probably asked if he used a box cutter during one of the many, many confessions so naturally, he says that yes, I used a box cutter. JMO

@lonetraveler Thanks for your post.
Yes, ME's usu'ly distinguish serrated blade wounds from smooth blade wounds.

An Amazon search* returned, in the first 20 results, 7 or 8 serrated blades for box cutters. Suggested to me that altho I don't ever recall seeing any, that they are not terribly uncommon.

Agree that some experts' opinions are, well, sometimes "fluid" (my term) & some suspects or def't's. may be quite suggestible.
Personally not commenting about RA or these witnesses in this case.

ETA: @Bbgiraffe
Whoops, jumped from lonetraveler 's post to comment, & had not read your post.
_______________________________
* At Amazon.com, searched "box cutter with with serrated blade" showed products, either w box cutter or as a separate pack of refill blades. Sorry I can't get photos to attach.
Ex.: "Serrated Blades for Utility Knife – Ten Pack Heavy Duty SK5 Saw Razors for Box Cutter Replacement in Convenient Storage Box – Serrated Edge Razors 10 Pack, Standard Size - Fits Most Cutters &..."
"Rapid Edge 1-Pack Double-Length Utility Knife Blades, Serrated Edge Utility Blade, 5 Blade Refills"

 

[m00c0w]

Well I was wondering because if he isn’t in court, he doesn’t have access to the exhibits does he? So what is he basing this off? Does he have the “first location” confirmed somehow or? I’m just trying to decide how much weight to give him here as a source is all. Ty in advance.

I will direct you back to my original comment with the map:

My annotations are in blue. The pins and red annotations are from GH.

 

[Arkay]

Baldwin then suggested that BW didn't drive straight home and that he worked on some ATMs. BW said he worked on the ATMs in the morning and was vehement about driving directly there. Baldwin ended his cross and gave him a subpoena.

Just finished watching my Yankees lose the World Series in ghastly fashion, so I am way behind and need to catch up.

Therefore I’m sure this has been commented on quite a bit, but I cannot refrain—-Baldwin slapped BW with a subpoena right there in court????

It seems to me that if Baldwin has no answer for BW’s testimony, he devolves straight into theatrics.

I’d say the entire defense has been theatrical right from the start, actually.

JMO