Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #210

[Han]

That is the part I just do not understand (dragging her body to be parallel with Abby's). For what purpose? There had to be a purpose in the killer(s) mind(s). Otherwise, why not just leave her where she dropped to the ground? Why not drag Abby, who would have been easier to drag, over by Libby? Just why not leave them where they died?! I can't wrap my head around their reasoning.

IMO not wanting to disturb Abby‘s body.

 

[INfisherman]

I respectfully disagree...there is no exact match for anything you have stated, there are only similarities (gun, clothes), the statement from 2017, there is a question to whether it was misfiled, whether RA was cleared, it depends who you ask...RA mentioned the boxcutter...yes...and he saw crime scene photos...and he confessed after seeing crime scene photos, autopsy reports, witness statements and everything else...

It doesn’t have to be exact. Nothing in a trial is exact save specific digital evidence which is presented in an unaltered state with time stamps, not even DNA is exact, for that matter. Anything requiring testing or procedure can be argued to its legitimacy.

 

[Vern]

Can you specify what RA knows that only the killer does because it’s not the van

According to Dr. Wala's psych report, RA stated "white van" during his confession.

I was asking in here yesterday, and this morning to a link where this "white van" is discussed in the public domain; it's yet to be provided. It isn't in any of the official case documents available thus far to the public. The prosecution states that detail was not in discovery.

I checked for hours and hours out there in SM land and find only discussion about "white car", "white truck" and "white pickup truck". No white van.

Please provide a link to this detail being in the public domain prior to Richard Allen making this detail known in his confession.

Also, anyone out there with a link to the "BW stating he was home at 3:30pm originally" claim that keeps being made ... still waiting for a link to that if anyone can find one. I did find the 3:30pm claim originating on R years ago by a certain user with it flying like wildfire after that through the interwebs and certain youtube channels, but that individual didn't cite any source for it; they based it upon BW finishing his shift at 3pm (despite the fact that BW actually finishes work at 2pm - as he testified to under oath.)

Again, any help finding sources to cite for the above underlined items being in the public domain.


Also, still wondering why the Defense isn't/has not called the very first LEO who engaged with BW ... on the 13 February at 1730hrs before the girls were even found deceased. I do suspect that the Prosecution may have him back up on the stand. Has the Defense just forgotten about him?
________________________

Richard Allen said he saw a white van near the trail when he kidnapped the girls, psychologist's report shows​

...
Allen, according to Wala's note, said he intended to rape the girls, but he didn't because he saw a white van driving nearby. Instead, he crossed Deer Creek, killed them and left, avoiding the main trails as he walked back to his car.




Carroll County Sheriff's Office Deputy Mitch Catron, who has worked for the county for 12 years, said in the day's final testimony that he responded to a call about the missing girls around 5:15 p.m. that day.

Using large maps of the area around the Monon High Bridge and Deer Creek, attorneys made Catron point out how he approached the trail from the south on a private drive that led him through the woods and, eventually, to the property of Brad Weber.
...
McLeland, the lead prosecutor, asked of Weber: "Was he covered in sweat? Was he covered in blood? Did he look disheveled in any way?" Matron said no to each question.
Weber allowed the officer to search his property, though the defense noted that Catron didn't look inside two outbuildings on the site. He said he likely stayed for less than 10 minutes.

Although the trees were bare in February, Catron said he saw nothing out of place when he searched the woods near Weber's property and along the private drive."

 

[Boxer]

Casualty evacuations. 250lb is the standard (the average weight of a soldier with their battle order/weapon on) - no matter what size 'we' - the carrier (fireman's carry) or the dragger (casevac combat drag) is.

Mind, that's Canadian Army standard, but my fellow soldiers in theatre often had to do the same thing and do also have to meet their annual fitness standards and annual IBTS (Individual Battle Test Standards).

IMO.

MOO dragging a 200 lb body would leave lot evidence (from the cemetery?)

Google


The Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) has several fitness tests that involve carrying weights, including:

FORCE Evaluation
This annual test measures the minimum physical standards for CAF members to perform common defense and security duties. One component of the test is the sandbag drag, where recruits carry a 20 kg sandbag while pulling at least four more bags on the floor for 20 meters without stopping.

The Circuit

This test includes a 5 km march while wearing 35 kg of combat gear, a five-minute break, and a circuit of movements that includes a "185 pound casualty drag". In this drag, soldiers lift and drag a heavy sandbag while still carrying most of their own gear.

It requires the participant to pull a minimum of four 20 kg sandbags across the floor while walking backwards over a distance of 20 meters without stopping.
The participant carries one 20 kg sandbag in their hands, cradling it with both arms under the sandbag. The total frictional force of all five bags is 33.6 kg.

 

[INfisherman]

If he is found guilty the YouTube masses will fade away so if there is any appeal there will be a lot less noise at least.

Moo

We can only hope but sadly I have my doubts.

JMO

 

[Warwick7]

That is the part I just do not understand (dragging her body to be parallel with Abby's). For what purpose? There had to be a purpose in the killer(s) mind(s). Otherwise, why not just leave her where she dropped to the ground? Why not drag Abby, who would have been easier to drag, over by Libby? Just why not leave them where they died?! I can't wrap my head around their reasoning.

By leaving Libby near that tree shows she ran from him and/or fought him.

In moo his mind wouldn't have that. In his mind he had the power and control not a teen girl. A teen girl that he looked as refuse anyway.
M00

 

[Vern]

I respectfully disagree...there is no exact match for anything you have stated, there are only similarities (gun, clothes), the statement from 2017, there is a question to whether it was misfiled, whether RA was cleared, it depends who you ask...RA mentioned the boxcutter...yes...and he saw crime scene photos...and he confessed after seeing crime scene photos, autopsy reports, witness statements and everything else...

And RA also confessed before seeing any discovery and before any psychotropic drugs were administered too soooo....

IMO.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Disagree and have seen convictions overturned on appeal due to not enough evidence to convict so what did the jury convict on? Emotions!
For example...

Woman Convicted in Baby Daughter's Death Cleared of All Charges

A woman convicted in connection with the murder of her infant daughter will soon be released from prison after the remaining charge against her was dismissed.

www.rockdalenewtoncitizen.com

Likewise - should a jury acquit based upon emotion?

Ar this point, defense case is based on pitying RA for breaking down behind bars. If the jury feels pity, defense hopes they ignore evidence and also ignore RA’s own confessions.

jmo

 

[INfisherman]

Got it. I haven't heard so can't form an opinion and don't consider TL an expert in deciphering audio. How is it ok to tell the jury what to hear? Why not let them listen and decide instead of telling them what to hear? Can't form an opinion about the time frame of the voice either since I haven't seen the video. As for the gun I disagree. Can't decipher anything from that blurry image.
Agree to disagree. JMO

I believe the jury was played both the original unedited version & the cleaned up versions of the video. A person giving testimony as to what they believe they hear (or see or think or smell) is in no way instructing the jury. Not everything presented as evidence is an undeniable fact. That’s Hollywood court fiction.

JMO

 

[Vern]

BG could be a a million men in a blue jacket, jeans and a hat IMO

Just in Indiana that day there probably were, but only one of them was on that bridge or even the trails on 13 February 2017 ... at the same time these girls were kidnapped down the hill and led to their murders.

One guy ... in all of Indiana.

One guy, who IMO, admitted he was there at the time, in very similar clothing and who has confessed ad nauseum.

All IMO of course.

 

[INfisherman]

I just think it's interesting how first it was RA isn't bridge guy. But now that RA probably is bridge guy, welllllllll maybe bridge guy isn't the murderer. The simplest explanation is usually right. Not some complicated thing and honestly if they wanted to really frame him up good they could have just followed him around for awhile and got his DNA off something he threw away and then planted his DNA on something from the crime scene. MOO.

People just love a good conspiracy.

 

[Vern]

And that’s why if one of these girls was mine I’d worry about a juror like you. Only being honest and imo. What more proof do you need? It’s all right in front of us. Justice for the girls. RA is their guy. No doubt imo

There's a reason that the prosecution asked during voir dire of the Juror's whether "it would take DNA" for them to convict. Those potential jurors who answered "yes" were dismissed because real life crime is not a CSI episode on TV. Those type of potential jurors usually are not wiling to consider anything circumstantial ergo no one, very extreme few anyway, would ever be convicted of the crimes they've committed. What a world that would be.

IMO.

 

[INfisherman]

BG could be a a million men in a blue jacket, jeans and a hat IMO

Oddly, only ONE placed himself there resembling anything remotely close to that.

JMO

 

[twall]

Likewise - should a jury acquit based upon emotion?

Ar this point, defense case is based on pitying RA for breaking down behind bars. If the jury feels pity, defense hopes they ignore evidence and also ignore RA’s own confessions.

jmo

Of course not. They should acquit if state hasn't proven their case BARD and will be instructed to so. IMO

 

[flashy09]

There is nothing concrete...if I was prosecuting this case I would want to have more

The problem is this case doesn't have DNA.

It has a bullet found and technology has advanced to where two firearm experts can say under oath, with confidence it came from RA's gun.

They tested other Sig Sauers and did not have positive results.

RA was there in his 2017 interview and he is certainly there in his confessions.

His car is there on video.

He confesses the motive, weapon, morning details, the van that changed his crime scene location.

There are witnesses that ALL say BG photo is who they saw...at the time RA says he is there in similar clothing.
Eye witnesses are not detail witnesses. Of course there are discrepancies. But when testifying under oath, BB says poofy hair could be his hat. SC says tan jacket is probably because of all the mud. SC actually denies says effeminate eyes...we know from this trial how things can be misheard...and as a total aside, today's sketch artist has emphasized his blue eyes lol.

I think it's a slam dunk we got the bullet and the car on video to add to RA's 2017 interview and his confessions. Would the Jayme Closs have been solved if she hadn't escaped?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Of course not. They should acquit if state hasn't proven their case BARD and will be instructed to so. IMO

They will also convict without emotion if they see guilt BARD.
We have heard the jury is asking smart questions.

jmo

 

[Vaderman]

By leaving Libby near that tree shows she ran from him and/or fought him.

In moo his mind wouldn't have that. In his mind he had the power and control not a teen girl. A teen girl that he looked as refuse anyway.
M00

Sadly, the leaked search warrant regarding RL specifically stated that the girls had no visible signs of a struggle or a fight.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I get it. She's human. But I would think his DA should at least have a poker face during stuff like this. The fact she can't put one on makes me wonder how the rest of the trial will go defense-wise.

Defense attorney Jennifer Auger appeared deeply concerned watching Video #10, Russell observed. At one point, Auger held her head in her hand, and covered her mouth during another. Eventually, she looked away.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 14 live blog

Follow the trial of Richard Allen, accused of the Delphi Murders, as it continues with videos of Allen from prison and testimony from witnesses.

www.wishtv.com

She wasn't the only one. It is reported that even prosecutor NM had reactions.


Snipped from article:

"The tenth video was about an hour long. This one had an impact on McLeland, according to the pool notes, who appeared “taken aback” and was “cringing” at what he was seeing. Auger stood behind him, arms crossed and mouth open “staring in horror.”

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-jurors-react-to-video-of-richard-allen-in-custody/

 

[Boxer]

Its about 165 meters from the back of the cemetery loop to the CS, and about 135 meters over the creek and up an enbankment from N625W.

 

[flashy09]

She wasn't the only one. It is reported that even prosecutor NM had reactions.


Snipped from article:

"The tenth video was about an hour long. This one had an impact on McLeland, according to the pool notes, who appeared “taken aback” and was “cringing” at what he was seeing. Auger stood behind him, arms crossed and mouth open “staring in horror.”

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-jurors-react-to-video-of-richard-allen-in-custody/

I think it's now been confirmed that RA can do some unthinkable things.