Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #210

[detectivewannab]

"Devoted fan base" is a very wrong assumption and it borders on insult.

Let me clear I am not his "fan". I have no feelings about him one way or another.
I am adamantly opposed to the treatment he has received and I'm appalled that it's been allowed.

Would you prefer they slit his throat, and leave him naked in the woods for everyone to see him? He put himself in the situation.

 

[acehard]

But that type of evaluation is different than a competency evaluation. That would be much more extensive and if he could be ruled incompetent at the time he made the confessions it would discredit the confessions. His attorneys never got a competency evaluation so we don't know whether he was incompetent or insane at the time of his confessions.

He didn't officially make any confessions to require evaluation. The psychologists are her own words. Only recording are when he talked to his wife. He's obviously competent to stand trial. MOO

 

[Crazyjster]

He didn't officially make any confessions to require evaluation. The psychologists are her own words. Only recording are when he talked to his wife. He's obviously competent to stand trial. MOO

A person's ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND CHARGES AND COMMUNICATE WITH ATTORNEY determine competency so in the beginning I don't think competency was an issue, however I think it might have become an issue...and he was treated by the psychologist with meds. He never went to court incompetent therefore a competency eval was probably seen as unnecessary. However other evals might have been helpful...Idk

IMO

 

[ClearAhead]

Only a guilty man would dare claim self defense against two young teenage girls. However it appears the D might’ve talked him out of that. JMO

BBM

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/what-google-searches-from-richard-allen-reveal/

On Oct. 2, 2022, less than two weeks before he was initially questioned in the case, Allen searched for the “65+ best kidnapping and hostage movies ever made.” Other searches from the same day included “man held hostage by teen” and “movie about a man being held against his will.”

 

[fred&edna]

Is it stated in any of transcripts the steps LE took to clear EF, and BH? If so, does anyone have a link?

 

[Arkay]

Misconduct by federal jail guards led to Jeffrey Epstein's suicide, DOJ watchdog says

The Justice Department’s watchdog said Tuesday that negligence, misconduct and poor job performance by the federal Bureau of Prisons and workers at the New York City jail enabled Epstein to take his own life in August 2019.

www.pbs.org

So often when we read about the conditions in which RA was kept, I think about Jeffrey Epstein. I recall someone here mentioned him and I meant at the time to post this, but got distracted by real life.

IMO it’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation for the prison systems.
Particularly, as this excerpt below states, when the prisoner is notorious and the fallout from a prisoner’s suicide is front page news.

Had RA not exhibited signs of mental illness in prison and verbally spoken about wanting to hurt himself, he probably would not have had to endure the extreme self-protection protocols.

The prison system is an industry like any other. Had RA killed himself there, the onus would be on the warden and the guards. Two Epstein guards were fired and arrested but pled out, because the necessary drastic steps were not taken and Epstein did of course kill himself in his cell.

ETA: Epstein grew up in a neighborhood near me and I have friends who grew up with him. According to them he was just another nerdy little kid. One never knows.

My opinion.

Excerpt from link:

 

[WildHuncher]

We have arrived at a place where *most* of the important evidence is in. Thus the conversation has drifted into what is “reasonable.” OK, we’ve been doing a lot of that all along.

One person’s reasonable is another person’s “That dude just ain’t goin’ there.” The “not BARD” party finds grounds to disallow every single item of evidence. The “it’s easily BARD” party by this point is wondering what it would take to accumulate a preponderance of evidence if every item added is summarily dismissed and never juxtaposed with any others.

One recurring answer is DNA. But there will not be DNA in many cases. There is no DNA in the case of these murdered girls and it’s not likely coming.

So we have to be willing to see patterns in data of which no one item is beyond critique. Some are seeing a pattern first outlined in the PCA. Some are seeing a pattern of “rush to judgment” if not outright conspiracy.

I’ve been willing to believe a man who assaulted and attempted to murder a young girl was the culprit in this case. Even when I learned the investigators were telling the family it wasn’t him, I thought they were wrong.

Then I learned about the catfishers. THEN I abandoned that other guy and figured this was obviously the big break. Even when I learned the investigators were giving up on that angle, I once again couldn’t believe my ears. Not for some time.

So I’m not in a conspiracy against RA and really don’t think there is one. The pattern is not one of people being out to get RA. I don’t see a rush to judgment either. LE waited patiently under years of criticism until at last pieces fell into place.

The pattern I saw and still see was outlined in the PCA.

 

[Crazyjster]

Misconduct by federal jail guards led to Jeffrey Epstein's suicide, DOJ watchdog says

The Justice Department’s watchdog said Tuesday that negligence, misconduct and poor job performance by the federal Bureau of Prisons and workers at the New York City jail enabled Epstein to take his own life in August 2019.

www.pbs.org

So often when we read about the conditions in which RA was kept, I think about Jeffrey Epstein. I recall someone here mentioned him and I meant at the time to post this, but got distracted by real life.

IMO it’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation for the prison systems.
Particularly, as this excerpt below states, when the prisoner is notorious and the fallout from a prisoner’s suicide is front page news.

Had RA not exhibited signs of mental illness in prison and verbally spoken about wanting to hurt himself, he probably would not have had to endure the extreme self-protection protocols.

The prison system is an industry like any other. Had RA killed himself there, the onus would be on the warden and the guards. Two Epstein guards were fired and arrested but pled out, because the necessary drastic streps were not taken and Epstein did of course kill himself in his cell.

My opinion.

Excerpt from link:

View attachment 542796

While inmates are being held until trial, they are "innocent" until proven guilty. We need to treat them with with respect and dignity because they still have their rights. They also might be acquitted. For those who work as DOC employees, the last thing they need is to be looking at a lawsuit because those suck and typically and the FBI gets involved. for those awaiting trial, when conditions suck, it leaves the door open for appeals, which, even if cases are airtight, is absolutely devastating to victims families because cases get dismissed or have to get retried. I think that the jails, and courts shout almost over accommodate sometimes.,

 

[acehard]

A person's ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND CHARGES AND COMMUNICATE WITH ATTORNEY determine competency so in the beginning I don't think competency was an issue, however I think it might have become an issue...and he was treated by the psychologist with meds. He never went to court incompetent therefore a competency eval was probably seen as unnecessary. However other evals might have been helpful...Idk

IMO

The fact that a psychologist is treating him for psychosis, depression, anxiety etc is the evaluation. Besides, he himself or those he was confession to were saying he's out of his mind. Add the videos showing his bizarre behaviors which started after the prolonged incarceration does raise doubt about the confessions. This is why the content of these confessions is what's more important and needs to be scrutinized. MOO

 

[Boxer]

I agree 100%...but it depends what he was being evaluated for..either way IMO the D failed....if he was just given a suicide risk eval then he should not have been in solitary 13 mo...the effects are detrimental to people without a MH Dx...and to those with acute MH issues it can exacerbate symptoms after a few days. Once a client is stable on meds it is best to move out of SC. A full competency eval is typically 30-90 days for the courts and they were typically ordered by the judge or state agency or the defense privately. They are different then SW or SP (suicide precaution). There are other evals as well that can be court ordered or privately ordered by the D that were not done (i.e. offender evals).

His lawyers were skating.

Dragging Libby back...
Cicero testified to the area as a "bowl depression if you will, where the bodies found. (Great place to hide).
Cicero also testified he believes if Libby's body had not been moved, it would have been easier to see their bodies from the creek.

Agree, more of the same type of shoplifting line of sight cleverness.

 

[Boxer]

Only a guilty man would dare claim self defense against two young teenage girls. However it appears the D might’ve talked him out of that. JMO

BBM

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/what-google-searches-from-richard-allen-reveal/

On Oct. 2, 2022, less than two weeks before he was initially questioned in the case, Allen searched for the “65+ best kidnapping and hostage movies ever made.” Other searches from the same day included “man held hostage by teen” and “movie about a man being held against his will.”

Ugh.

 

[Crazyjster]

We have arrived at a place where *most* of the important evidence is in. Thus the conversation has drifted into what is “reasonable.” OK, we’ve been doing a lot of that all along.

One person’s reasonable is another person’s “That dude just ain’t goin’ there.” The “not BARD” party finds grounds to disallow every single item of evidence. The “it’s easily BARD” party by this point is wondering what it would take to accumulate a preponderance of evidence if every item added is summarily dismissed and never juxtaposed with any others.

One recurring answer is DNA. But there will not be DNA in many cases. There is no DNA in the case of these murdered girls and it’s not likely coming.

So we have to be willing to see patterns in data of which no one item is beyond critique. Some are seeing a pattern first outlined in the PCA. Some are seeing a pattern of “rush to judgment” if not outright conspiracy.

I’ve been willing to believe a man who assaulted and attempted to murder a young girl was the culprit in this case. Even when I learned the investigators were telling the family it wasn’t him, I thought they were wrong.

Then I learned about the catfishers. THEN I abandoned that other guy and figured this was obviously the big break. Even when I learned the investigators were giving up on that angle, I once again couldn’t believe my ears. Not for some time.

So I’m not in a conspiracy against RA and really don’t think there is one. The pattern is not one of people being out to get RA. I don’t see a rush to judgment either. LE waited patiently under years of criticism until at last pieces fell into place.

The pattern I saw and still see was outlined in the PCA.

And this is why we have juries! The outcome of this is going to be interesting!

 

[Momofthreeboys]

Misconduct by federal jail guards led to Jeffrey Epstein's suicide, DOJ watchdog says

The Justice Department’s watchdog said Tuesday that negligence, misconduct and poor job performance by the federal Bureau of Prisons and workers at the New York City jail enabled Epstein to take his own life in August 2019.

www.pbs.org

So often when we read about the conditions in which RA was kept, I think about Jeffrey Epstein. I recall someone here mentioned him and I meant at the time to post this, but got distracted by real life.

IMO it’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation for the prison systems.
Particularly, as this excerpt below states, when the prisoner is notorious and the fallout from a prisoner’s suicide is front page news.

Had RA not exhibited signs of mental illness in prison and verbally spoken about wanting to hurt himself, he probably would not have had to endure the extreme self-protection protocols.

The prison system is an industry like any other. Had RA killed himself there, the onus would be on the warden and the guards. Two Epstein guards were fired and arrested but pled out, because the necessary drastic streps were not taken and Epstein did of course kill himself in his cell.

ETA: Epstein grew up in a neighborhood near me and I have friends who grew up with him. According to them he was just another nerdy little kid. One never knows.

My opinion.

Excerpt from link:

View attachment 542796

Big difference here, he was not a convicted criminal. I am frankly horrified this happened in our country. Guilty or not at the time he was still presumed innocent by law.

 

[Boxer]

Big difference here, he was not a convicted criminal. I am frankly horrified this happened in our country. Guilty or not at the time he was still presumed innocent by law.

The reality is another inmate would have killed him if given the chance, he might made a mistake and accidently killed himself while making his verbals and gestures and/or harmed others with his out of control behavior.
So he was segregated and he made most of it.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Has the defense provided an alibi for RA yet for 2/13/17 between 2-3:30?

I haven’t heard an inkling of an alibi yet for any part of his day after he visited his mom in Peru.
Did I miss it?

 

[Crazyjster]

The fact that a psychologist is treating him for psychosis, depression, anxiety etc is the evaluation. Besides, he himself or those he was confession to were saying he's out of his mind. Add the videos showing his bizarre behaviors which started after the prolonged incarceration does raise doubt about the confessions. This is why the content of these confessions is what's more important and needs to be scrutinized. MOO

yes, I was insinuating that when I first replied because he was being treated...however it is not a "court ordered competency evaluation", it is standard practice by a clinician in an institutional setting...

 

[Salah11]

The reality is another inmate would have killed him if given the chance, he might made a mistake and accidently killed himself while making his verbals and gestures and/or harmed others with his out of control behavior.
So he was segregated and he made most of it.

And he has access to a iPad 24/7 didn’t he?

He could make calls and when he broke it in a fit of temper ( he certainly loves to do that) he got it replaced.

Moo

 

[Crazyjster]

The fact that a psychologist is treating him for psychosis, depression, anxiety etc is the evaluation. Besides, he himself or those he was confession to were saying he's out of his mind. Add the videos showing his bizarre behaviors which started after the prolonged incarceration does raise doubt about the confessions. This is why the content of these confessions is what's more important and needs to be scrutinized. MOO

I think 24/7 bright white institutional lights that never shut off for 13 months would make me crazy...it is little things that you can't begin to comprehend that add up and actually cause physical and mental problems...I am usually the first person to think someone is faking MI...not this time

 

[DoctorRose]

According to his own Defense Team RA wasn't crazy or acting crazy until Discovery. RA was 'affable, had a sense of humor, was polite and engaged in helping them in his defense'. They weren't concerned about RA's mental health enough to order and independent Psych Eval from Nov until April and even after April with his "psychotic" episodes. Wonder why?

Then come the phone confessions to Wife and Mom and he's suddenly a paper and pooh eating, drooling, head banging, self pleasuring, among other things, histrionic lunatic. RA presented this way from April to June, and then mysteriously calmed down again, with an occasional ragey outburst or confession. Like this recent one where he threatened to kill the guard at Cass County jail where he's being held during trial.

After Discovery RA KNEW what the State knew at that point, as would the general public shortly. His wife and mom wouldn't talk to him about it so there's a perfect storm for his explosive behavior and his psychosis. He MUST have their approval and CONTROL of them regardless of what he'd done, which he begged for each time he confessed.

Why do people insist on forgetting that prior to his arrest Defendant Allen was a functioning member of society, holding down a steady job which included decision making skills, had a home paid for, had a long term marriage, traveled, participated in pool tournaments and socialized down at the local pub? Just a regular ole' Rick, except we know he wasn't.

RA went to the MHB on Feb 13, 2017 to kill, and unfortunately Abby & Libby fit his desired victimology. It's really as simple as that, even though to us it makes absolutely no sense and never will.

All IMO

IMO I think it’s also possible to understand this info from the opposite perspective. Speculation for how and this isn’t necessarily my opinion: A normally functioning person still polite and calm while he’s sure this mistaken arrest will be ameliorated. That takes immense patience. But he does have a history of mental health issues, and once confronted with the state’s case against him the reality of his situation sinks in. How did his bullet wind up at the crime scene? The timelines line up. Well crap this might not be so easy to fix after all. So he panics and loses his marbles for lack of a kinder or more accurate phrase. (And this part I do believe; I do believe he was truly psychotic regardless of whether he’s a murderer and of the reason behind his psychosis.). But he could have become psychotic out of fear and the belief that he was doomed even if he didn’t do it. Also, his psychosis didn’t just disappear. He was given Haldol, which is a pretty potent anti-psychotic drug. He regains a grip on reality, gets talked down from his ledge, and regains confidence in his ability to get through this situation. All to say, I don’t think that the pattern of his mental health points to his guilt. I also think we need to keep in mind that the psych on the stand said someone who can tell a chronological and organized story is LESS LIKELY to be psychotic. It doesn’t mean they can’t be. All JMO, speculation, and a hypothetical.

 

[Boxer]

Has the defense provided an alibi for RA yet for 2/13/17 between 2-3:30?

I haven’t heard an inkling of an alibi yet for any part of his day after he visited his mom in Peru.
Did I miss it?

Right.