Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #210

[katydid23]

Do false confessions have to be made or taken seriously if someone is deemed in psychosis though? Or can they be a mix of that state and just a general state of hopelesness/depression?

False confessions?

Obviously 'false' confessions don't have to be taken seriously. IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

justice is people doing their job correctly and following the law. If RA is "going down...to the full extent the law allows," the State better offer up some clear and convincing evidence BARD because right now I don't see it IMO

It doesn't matter what you or I think, only what the jury decides. JMO

 

[fred&edna]

Please, correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t “We The People, which includes a judge and jury, supposed to consider a defendant innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt before they make assumptions? TIA IMO

I'm confused by your post as a reply to mine. Maybe it's just me.

jmo

 

[acutename]

So? That is a common figure of speech, used most often by someone who is not in a psychotic state.

My brother was a schizophrenic---he went in and out of psychosis. When he was on his meds he was usually sane and measured. When triggered he would sometimes have psychotic episodes.

When he was in his right mind he was very intelligent and truthful. If he could sit and have a coherent conversation, answer questions logically, then he was in his right mind. He was reliable and logical in that state of mind.

When he was hearing voices and acting delusional it was very obvious. He could not have a linear, logical conversation with proper responses to questions.

I do have his convo with KA handy and it convinces me he was in his right mind and sane at that time. Saying 'I think I'm losing my mind' shows me he knows the difference between those two states of consciousness. He knows he goes in and out of sanity. It's a scary thing. My brother spoke the same way. He knew he was often on the edge of sanlty. It's tragic.

When my brother was in a psychotic state he was convinced the CIA was after him. He had his windows blacked out with black butter paper and he put tin foil around his radio and TV antenna---not sure why exactly. But he was convinced Johnny Carson was speaking to him in code about some secret CIA operation. He even went to the Tonight Show one afternoon---drove from SF Bay Area to Burbank---to sit in the audience and he actually ran towards the stage during commercial break and was arrested----for real.

But in between those crazy episodes, he was sane and wonderful and very funny and sweet. When he was not being psychotic, he knew he was not in the CIA. He even laughed, kind of embarrassed about some of his antics. He remembered little of it but knew he was acting crazy during those 'fits' as he called them.

Sadly, when he was off his meds he could be volatile and dangerous. He was mad at my stepdad one time, and when my parents got home, they found Papa's stuffed living room chair in the backyard, full of holes made by an ice pick, which was broken on the lawn.

Did your brother, in his "sane" state, recall and understand things he had done when psychotic? Or was it all a bit mysterious to him? Maybe the good RA can't always recall what the bad RA did...maybe when prompted, some of it comes back. He sounds like a mess IMO and not sure if he attacked some one else to avoid acting out on his family IMO. Wonder if Dr. Wala had more insights in court than what has been reported so far.

 

[Trebor5591]

You don't think his lawyers have been remiss in any way in the handling of RA's case? A man who wants to and has plead guilty to the brutal murders of two girls...his wishes should have been ignored, his lawyers did nothing wrong with the handling of that? He should go free and everything the DT has done in the course of this case has just been zealous, they've done nothing wrong? LE has lied, witnesses have lied, even RA has lied? Mummm, I don't believe it. A guilty man wanted to plea guilty but was not allowed to do so, as simple as that. That is JMO. Respectfully, we're worlds apart in thinking

An attorney can not force their client to plead not-guilty. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. An attorney can make recommendations, which may carry a lot of weight with the accused, but they can not force their client to plead not-guilty.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I'm confused by your post as a reply to mine. Maybe it's just me.

jmo

I'm not sure either.

 

[Myvice]

I'm not sure if they still plan to put someone else up to talk about these issues or not. My understanding - i'm not a lawyer so this may not be accurate - is they can't ask the witness certain things unless the Prosecution opens the door to it somehow. The prosecution didn't ask about stomach contents or tox screens that I know of so I have wondered if we may learn more or not in the coming days. Does anyone know? Not moo - questions. Ty

Or it just might not be relevant in this particular case.

 

[minor4th]

That’s simply not true.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-former-fire-chief-recalls-nighttime-search-for-girls-and-lack-of-sightings/

Baldwin pointed out that Weber owned an Sig Sauer, the same type of gun that Allen owned which prosecutors linked him to the murder through. But during cross-examination, Mullin revealed that Weber’s gun was collected and tested but wasn’t found to be a match for the unspent round found between the girls’ bodies.

My mistake.

 

[ClearAhead]

I don't know what is the right thing to do here because I can see it both ways. Showing the world what this child murder did is not allowing RA to hide from the world knowing exactly what he did. I think after the leaked photos and all the hoopla about this being some ritual, they might have wanted to show that it was not. It was turned into a circus by the defense team and I think showing just real truth of what was done might have been important here. These girls are gone and they are gone because this evil man did this and he left them like he did without any care for how they would be found. If the defense didn't fill those Franks with their fictional stories then maybe showing the actual truth of this wouldn't have been needed. IMO

I agree all the drama of the leaked photos and the overblown fiction of this being a ritual has taken focus off the only suspect who was charged. Thankfully the jury hasn’t been privy to all diversionary tactics so they will see the truth for what it is.

This case really isn’t as complex as it might seem. An admitted alcoholic, a sex addict, a loner with mental health issues who has fantasizes about molesting young girls one day until one day while he’s hunting for same he happens across two on an isolated bridge and corners them, ending up slitting their throats possibly in frustration as things didn’t progress as he intended.

He confesses but his wife and mother persuade him to shut up about it so everyone’s life can go along as if he’s innocent without any thought or consideration for the victims family. RA knowing he’s much loved is all that matters. My opinion only.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I found it interesting that he apparently admitted to his wife that he was at the trail that day, but did not tell her he had gone onto to the bridge and out to the platform.

jmo

Half truths and distancing, typical guilty behavior IMO.

 

[zh0r4]

And was the exact same tests including fired rounds performed on the other suspect guns.

Didn’t one of those tests of another suspect’s gun come back as “inconclusive”? I wonder how they differentiate between inconclusive and match?

 

[Spartygirl]

Anyone want to predict when it will go to the jury?

Depends on how quickly the D-team can get through their
120 Witnesses they plan on calling to the stand.

"Prosecutors said they plan to call about 50 witnesses during the trial, while Allen's defense attorneys expect to call about 120 witnesses."

Delphi murders trial jury selection begins for suspect in 2017 killings of 2 Indiana teen girls

Eight women and six men have been selected to a 16-person jury in the trial of a man charged in the Indiana killings of two teenage girls during a winter hike in 2017.

abc30.com

 

[photographer4]

Or it just might not be relevant in this particular case.

Entirely possible. I don't know what I don't know... until I know... ya know?

 

[zh0r4]

"I think I'm losing my mind" was said to KA. Do you have the full phone call details handy?

Will transcripts of the phone calls be released?

 

[minor4th]

I’m trying to understand how a pretrial detainee enters a plea to confess on record? When he started confessing at Westville, were (or should have) his attorneys been notified? Was it up to them to decide to allow him to proceed with a formal confession - and if not, if they felt he was confessing falsely due to a mental breakdown, were they responsible for requesting a competency evaluation?

If there is a legal reference for the process that I could read, I will, if you could guide me to the right place. TIA

I have no idea whether the defense was notified of all these so-called confessions, but I do know they tried several times to have the safekeeping order vacated so that RA could be transferred due to his deteriorating mental health.

If RA had continued to be refused treatment and had not regained his competency, I’m sure the defense would have sought a competency evaluation. They did file a motion to have the confessions excluded because of their unreliability due to RA’s severe mental illness.

 

[girlhasnoname]

one thing for sure. he does appear to be a genuine suicide risk based on his own statements.

That's a classic sign of a Narc. Threatening suicide when things don't go their way or they are outed in their lies, manipulations, and in this case IMO, murder.

If RA wanted to commit suicide, he's had plenty of chances to do it from 2017 to 2024. Nope, he love his sick self to much. He'd rather take advantage and flex power over 2 completely innocent children, Abby & Libby.

JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

Can I ask, is there a possibility Libby had two phones? I should think one of the first things BG said to the girls was hand over your phones. Did Libby hand over another phone?
I say this because I originally thought the phone LE found was strewn somewhere in the woods and BG may have dropped the confiscated phone somewhere on the march across the woods? But to hear during testimony it was neatly tucked in the girls shoe says to me they managed to conceal it the whole time?
This maybe ties in with the snapchat photo on the bridge not found anywhere in the discovered phones memory?
Were there other photos on Libby's recent Snapchat/ social media that were not on the discovered phone did anyone ask?
This then opens a whole other can of worms as to whether she was messaging people or posting as an alias on another phone? It still amazes me BG hit the jackpot (to him anyway) in such a short space of time at the exact location he was loitering about.

Some of Libby’s video was reportedly upside down which reminds me of an early Dr Phil show the family appeared on. BP demonstrated a swinging, close to body hand motion she believe was the way Libby captured the video of GB in the distance without him ever realizing it.

Only one phone has been confirmed. Although it was Libby’s phone, it was shared, both of them used it with both having access.

The snapchat photo wouldn't be on the phone if it’s taken on the SC app, so say users who are familiar with the app. Iirc the video was the last activity recorded on the cellphone.

 

[Trebor5591]

Just some late night musings but I really can't help but feel unbelievably sad for the girls and their families today.
This whole investigation was just mistake after mistake and if he is acquitted i don't see anyone else ever being arrested and charged.
I think he is literally it for them. I'm hoping for justice and hoping they have the right guy.

In my opinion, there is no way Allen is acquitted. The jury will do their job and find him guilty. He will never be free again. JMO.

 

[Myvice]

One question I have is why the witness that the D wanted to present on video simply come after the election is over? He could come later this week if his testimony is important. Is that a possibility? MOO

 

[katydid23]

It’s wild.

Would never have thought RA staging his own confession would become his key defense.

Yet here we are.

jmo

Yep---apparently he confessed too many times to too many people.

We can't believe the inmates because they are convicts. We can't believe the guards because they work for the state.
We can't believe his therapist because she peeked into another convict's file and she posted on social media about the case.
We can't believe our own ears when he confessed to his wife and mother because he is psychotic---even though he was speaking calmly and coherently.

So 60 plus confessions can all be explained away because reasons....