Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #210

[steeltowngirl]

Wonder if they have BW’s van on camera?

Rozzi says Allen’s reference to the van was general, not specific. “Is that the only van in Carroll County at the time?” Rozzi asked. Harshman says “that was the only van on 625 at the time.”

Delphi Murders trial: Day 12 live blog

Day 12 of the Delphi Murders trial begins with the jury expected to hear two hours of audio.

www.wishtv.com

 

[minor4th]

According to the Indiana statutes that have been posted here previously, there is a high bar that has to be met. It has to be MORE than just someone making a confession. The confession has to have substance, like it was a possibility to have happened.

I don’t believe there’s an Indiana statute that lays this out. It’s based on constitutional case law and Indiana case law. I researched this a bit this afternoon, and actually the bar is quite low. If evidence makes it any more likely or less likely that a defendant committed the crime, then the third party evidence should be allowed. When a third party confesses to a crime, that certainly makes it less likely that the defendant is the perpetrator. No, it does not have to be more than someone making a confession.

With respect, I went to law school and have been a trial lawyer for 30 years. I’m not just regurgitating generic google results. I can provide more detail if you care to hear it.

 

[minor4th]

Nothing is ever clear in this case.
What does mean that the car looked like it was in a movie?
How on earth does the defense have a photo of this car?

It’s not a photo of the actual car, but one that resembles what Heath saw that day.

 

[fred&edna]

The P never talked about the case being this case being a slam dunk, if you have a link stating they did so please link it. No trial is a slam dunk when you are dealing with 12 people all coming from different backgrounds and from their own personal experiences.

What I believe the State has laid out plainly is that RA-BG-Killer. To think it would be anyone else would be to deny all plausible and reasonable explanation. Yes, hypothetically Big Foot could have been at the bottom of the hill and done this terrible deed, but is that reasonable? One man, self admittedly, dressed as BG was on that bridge that day, filmed by Libby and his name is Richard Allen.

JMO

As one of my favorite WS-member lawyers said, "jury trials are a crap-shoot". (I repeat his quote A LOT!)

jmo

 

[Myvice]

I don’t believe there’s an Indiana statute that lays this out. It’s based on constitutional case law and Indiana case law. I researched this a bit this afternoon, and actually the bar is quite low. If evidence makes it any more likely or less likely that a defendant committed the crime, then the third party evidence should be allowed. When a third party confesses to a crime, that certainly makes it less likely that the defendant is the perpetrator. No, it does not have to be more than someone making a confession.

With respect, I went to law school and have been a trial lawyer for 30 years. I’m not just regurgitating generic google results. I can provide more detail if you care to hear it.

While I certainly respect your years as an attorney, if the person making the confession is cleared, would that still be considered evidence? I'm only asking and not trying to be disrespectful. MOO

 

[minor4th]

I want to know how Allen knows the girls were abducted at the south end of the bridge, and how he knows they moved across the creek.

"He saw a van and got scared, then telling the girls to cross the creek."
Delphi Murders trial: Day 11 live blog

Searchers were looking north and south of the bridge when they were missing, and their bodies were found north of the creek.

I don't suppose he had access to the investigators' working theories. What about the crime scene in the discovery indicates they had moved from south to north through the creek, and had not always been north of it? How did he know which direction 'bridge guy' was moving in? Clothing can be tossed in the creek. I think that is something only the killer would have known, and law enforcement.

JMO

His lawyers probably told him.

 

[minor4th]

While I certainly respect your years as an attorney, if the person making the confession is cleared, would that still be considered evidence? I'm only asking and not trying to be disrespectful. MOO

It’s still evidence, but the jury would have to determine how much weight to give it. Richard Allen was also cleared …until he wasn’t.

 

[katydid23]

Did your brother, in his "sane" state, recall and understand things he had done when psychotic? Or was it all a bit mysterious to him? Maybe the good RA can't always recall what the bad RA did...maybe when prompted, some of it comes back. He sounds like a mess IMO and not sure if he attacked some one else to avoid acting out on his family IMO. Wonder if Dr. Wala had more insights in court than what has been reported so far.

Not everything---sometimes he'd wake up with bruises or scrapes and not know why.

When he got arrested my older brother and I went to pick him up. My older bro is an attorney and tried to ask him what happened but there was not much clarity. He remembered driving to LA and said he had tickets to Tonight Show but said he didn't know why . But he had told me several times about Johnny Carson being his 'operative' so I kind of knew why.

But when we'd ask about that he either didn't remember or acted like he didn't. I'm not sure which it was.

 

[Momofthreeboys]

His lawyers probably told him.

And he received a lawyers packet the first week of April. If there was any of the defense disclosure he may have seen that.

 

[NoeticSoul]

It’s still evidence, but the jury would have to determine how much weight to give it. Richard Allen was also cleared …until he wasn’t.

Your Dick Dastardly (or who is it?) Avi's likeness precedes you! I kid and appreciate your input even thought we differ.

 

[FrostedGlass]

It’s not a photo of the actual car, but one that resembles what Heath saw that day.

Did the defense say it was just a photo to compare?
It's such an unusual car, I thought it might have been a photo of one he had in mind.

 

[Myvice]

It’s still evidence, but the jury would have to determine how much weight to give it. Richard Allen was also cleared …until he wasn’t.

Respectfully, I can't see that as apples to apples. The person that confessed was followed up on and deemed not to be involved whereas RA being marked cleared was a clerical error until it was followed up. Jmo.

 

[Boxer]

There was much more the D could have done to seek a competency evaluation and then some imo They chose not to. moo

Agree. i think they thought that should he meet with a therapist he might work out how to confess and get a fresh start on hinself even if that meant prison or the DP.

 

[susiQ]

Respectfully, I can't see that as apples to apples. The person that confessed was followed up on and deemed not to be involved whereas RA being marked cleared was a clerical error until it was followed up. Jmo.

Well, apparently there were certain LE that were NOT prepared to clear this individual and would have pursued this line of investigation if not stymied by UC. IMHO UC did not fully investigate this individual nor the people he was involved with. Badly done, IMO.

 

[Vaderman]

I have a nuanced question and this is all pure speculation on my part:

Hypothetically, if there is an on-going investigation with many "tentacles" surrounding this case, would the state be "allowed' to try Richard Allen without mentioning possible other actors?

I guess my question is: is the fact that RA is currently on trial proof that the state believes he acted alone? Does it put to rest that other suspects are being investigated?

 

[girlhasnoname]

I absolutely believe he is guilty, but I’m not willing to go all-in on a conviction. There’s a lot going on here, and there’s a lot more skepticism here than in most cases (from people following).

And I hate to say it, but even if he is found guilty, I don’t think this is anywhere close to over.

This case is ripe for appeals, but at the end of the day, I believe RA will lose those appeals. JMO

 

[Boxer]

Can you provide a source to requests prosecution have or have not made regarding TV line of vision to gallery? The answer may be there.

Bailiff's failure.

 

[AugustWest]

Respectfully, I can't see that as apples to apples. The person that confessed was followed up on and deemed not to be involved whereas RA being marked cleared was a clerical error until it was followed up. Jmo.

His file being marked clerical error occurred before any confessions occurred. Other confessor did so while under absolutely no pressure to do so. I guess you are right that it wasn't an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Myvice]

Well, apparently there were certain LE that were NOT prepared to clear this individual and would have pursued this line of investigation if not stymied by UC. IMHO UC did not fully investigate this individual nor the people he was involved with. Badly done, IMO.

I'm not very familiar with the individual. Were he or she at the park that day and seen with the girls? Did anyone see them? I'm really asking a question because I'm not familiar with this aspect of the investigation?

 

[zh0r4]

I have a nuanced question and this is all pure speculation on my part:

Hypothetically, if there is an on-going investigation with many "tentacles" surrounding this case, would the state be "allowed' to try Richard Allen without mentioning possible other actors?

RSBM

Yes. To clarify, the prosecution decides whether or not there is enough evidence or insufficient evidence to prosecute. Also, I don’t think there is a current investigation still ongoing. JMO.