Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #210

[AugustWest]

Third party “actors” which JG has denied the DT to bring in as a defense for RA. Not able to go into further detail as per TOS, at the moment. Should JG change her position upon an “offer of proof” for a “nexus” to these individuals by the DT, I suspect we will be allowed to discuss these individuals once again. JMHO

Thank you susiQ for helping clear that up for me.

 

[Myvice]

I'm sorry, I must have missed your conversation with @susiQ. If you can tell me which part of the investigation you are unclear about, I would be happy to help. Are you unfamiliar with the timing of RA's confessions, or the possible confessions of other unnamed persons?

TY AugustWest. I'm unfamiliar with the other confessions and their resolutions. I followed the case early but didn't keep up until it came to trial so I'm catching up.

 

[shonyakay]

Third party “actors” which JG has denied the DT to bring in as a defense for RA. Not able to go into further detail as per TOS, at the moment. Should JG change her position upon an “offer of proof” for a “nexus” to these individuals by the DT, I suspect we will be allowed to discuss these individuals once again. JMHO

And that's based on Judge Gull's ruling that the defense has not presented legit proof to show any of them were involved.

Truth and Reality is highly valued here at WS afterall.

 

[getthefax]

I absolutely believe he is guilty, but I’m not willing to go all-in on a conviction. There’s a lot going on here, and there’s a lot more skepticism here than in most cases (from people following).

And I hate to say it, but even if he is found guilty, I don’t think this is anywhere close to over.

Agree. Maybe they should add this scenario to the poll — guilty but acquitted/hung jury/mistrial…

If he is convicted I’m guessing a lot will go down on appeal.

MOO

 

[Myvice]

Third party “actors” which JG has denied the DT to bring in as a defense for RA. Not able to go into further detail as per TOS, at the moment. Should JG change her position upon an “offer of proof” for a “nexus” to these individuals by the DT, I suspect we will be allowed to discuss these individuals once again. JMHO

OK, now I get it. TY, and thanks for the warning about TOS.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I haven’t seen anyone say that. And it’s disputed whether he ever gave a coherent and detailed confession to his therapist. We don’t have recordings of those statements. We don’t know what else he said in that same conversation. We don’t know what his behavior was like on that day. , but we do know around that time he was eating feces and drinking out of the toilet and expressing confusion about what was happening and “losing his mind.”

Based on the chaotic and disorganized “confessions” he made to his family around the same time, it’s reasonable to also assume that his statements to his therapist were similarly chaotic and disorganized.

I think “we” do know. The therapist was a witness and her testimony in court as well in the 3 day hearings have been reported.
He was very organized in his confessions. He gave his motivation to his therapist and followed through with telling his family because he was as worried about his eternal soul. Maybe for the first time in his life.
I do believe his confessions were detailed because he disclosed information that I did not know and in fact LE didn’t even know prior to his arrest.
Such as box cutter, white van and interruption of attempted SA. He knew they crossed the creek. He knew exactly how they died and why. This could not be determined by crime scene photos.
He also left out things we know and he didn’t. Like the fact that he was seen by BB and SC. Not included because he wasn’t aware he had been spotted by other individuals the day of the crime. He told his truth to the degree that he knew and was comfortable sharing with the therapist and his family.
I think his breakdown started happening after his family refused to acknowledge his confessions and promise him unconditional acceptance.

All my opinion.

 

[steeltowngirl]

But a suspect’s mental state alone—even insanity—is insufficient to establish involuntariness absent some coercive police activity. Colorado v. Connelly, 479 U.S. 157 (1986).

Confessions: Police Interrogation, Due Process, and Self Incrimination

: Analysis and Interpretation of the of the U.S. Constitution

law.justia.com

 

[Myvice]

Is it possible his confession about killing his family and friends was referring to the fact that he knew he had killed himself metaphorically when he killed the girls and became a suspect? Like his life was over and theirs probably was too by being associated with him?

 

[Vaderman]

Is it possible his confession about killing his family and friends was referring to the fact that he knew he had killed himself metaphorically when he killed the girls and became a suspect? Like his life was over and theirs probably was too by being associated with him?

This was my interpretation. This trial has reminded me I should moderate my words.

 

[Kittybunny]

Not necessarily. We often have a lot of threads right before a high profile trial. And there are often lots of unanswered questions. People thought Mark Redwine might be innocent. There was very little actual forensic evidence left behind.

There were a lot of people thinking Chase Merrit was innocent of the McStay family murders. There were hundreds of long threads there with unanswered questions too. Same with Mollie Tibbets trial. Some people believed the defense and felt the defendant was being targeted because he was here illegally. They believed his weird story about the 2 phantom killers forcing him to accompany them.

I don't think it will be hung. IMO

Don’t forget Alex Murdaugh. Polls were split, talking heads on Court TV and other places felt the prosecution hadn’t proved their case, and Alex, a high-powered attorney himself, testified in his own defense, and yet the jury came back with a guilty verdict in less than three hours.

Jurors are smart and use common sense. I have complete faith that they will get it right, and have SO much more information than we do at this point. They are able to observe tone of voice, the demeanor of the defendant, have context for testimony. We are looking through a very limited aperture, but that view for me is plenty of bricks in the wall.

 

[AugustWest]

But a suspect’s mental state alone—even insanity—is insufficient to establish involuntariness absent some coercive police activity. Colorado v. Connelly, 479 U.S. 157 (1986).

Confessions: Police Interrogation, Due Process, and Self Incrimination

: Analysis and Interpretation of the of the U.S. Constitution

law.justia.com

Throwing Haldol in the calculus, pretrial detainment under less-than-ideal conditions, and involvement of your state-appointed mental health caregiver changes that analysis quite a bit.

 

[MiniMoo]

Yep---apparently he confessed too many times to too many people.

We can't believe the inmates because they are convicts. We can't believe the guards because they work for the state.
We can't believe his therapist because she peeked into another convict's file and she posted on social media about the case.
We can't believe our own ears when he confessed to his wife and mother because he is psychotic---even though he was speaking calmly and coherently.

So 60 plus confessions can all be explained away because reasons....

Questions:
How many confessions did you count?

Also, how many were something like:
"It was me, I killed Abby and Libby"

That in itself isn't enough as anyone can say it.

Lastly, it seems the white van isn't new, so the van confession isn't him bringing up, to me, a detail or details only the killer would know.

It seems a number of people in Delphi talked about it or knew, but not Mullins.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[steeltowngirl]

Throwing Haldol in the calculus, pretrial detainment under less-than-ideal conditions, and involvement of your state-appointed mental health caregiver changes that analysis quite a bit.

Thanks, I wasn’t analyzing though, I’m searching case law to find an answer for my question about the process of confessions. Can’t seem to find an answer here. I posted the case law as I thought it was interesting.

You did tell me to study the constitution!

 

[AugustWest]

Thanks, I wasn’t analyzing though, I’m searching case law to find an answer for my question about the process of confessions. Can’t seem to find an answer here. I posted the case law as I thought it was interesting.

Oh I see now, the "but" at the beginning wasn't yours. Sorry @steeltowngirl.

 

[fred&edna]

His file being marked clerical error occurred before any confessions occurred. Other confessor did so while under absolutely no pressure to do so. I guess you are right that it wasn't an apples to apples comparison.

Just jumping off your post (not directed at you)

It makes me wonder how many voluntary false confessions occur in high profile cases (high profile locally or nationally). As bizarre as it seems to most of us, I know it happens particularly with people who seek notoriety. (And, I don't include voluntary false confessions from convicted, incarcerated individuals)

jmo

 

[shonyakay]

Questions:
How many confessions did you count?

Also, how many were something like:
"It was me, I killed Abby and Libby"

That in itself isn't enough as anyone can say it.

Lastly, it seems the white van isn't new, so the van confession isn't him bringing up, to me, a detail or details only the killer would know.

It seems a number of people in Delphi talked about it or knew, but not Mullins.

JMO MOO JMT

Are you also claiming these same folks knew Weber was traveling down this private drive within 15 minutes of the kidnapping?

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

It seems awfully coincidental that RA's alleged psychosis happened between April through mid June. Discovery time.
If I had a client rolling around and painting his face in feces, I'd think that would be a good indicator that something more needed to be done.

Sounds like a complete failure on RA's Defense Team even though they repeatedly claimed they so deeply and emotionally cared about RA. They would have been the only ones able to order an independent psych evaluation. I think they didn't order one because they didn't want the State to potentially have access to it. RA was saying things they didn't want him to be saying to his wife, mom, the warden and others on recorded phone lines and in letters.

The State eventually got what was available from Westville/Washburn because the Defense kept referring and asserting RA's actions were due to his MH in Motions. They opened the door, and the Judge allowed the State in. JG even warned the D a few times beforehand that if they continued to rely and state facts based upon them, she would be forced to allow access to the State.

The Defense has not done RA ANY favors, I think they actually hurt him by wasting time on a non sensical defense theory and didn't protect him if they thought he was experiencing sincere mental psychosis. I find their behavior appalling, but no more than I find the behavior of an accused, demented double child murderer.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

JMO

Just jumping off your post...

If I understand correctly...
Wasn't the Discovery material delivered to RA by some type of messenger...
Not by the defense team?

If so... I feel this was not helpful to RA...

Seems the D team could have hand delivered the material...
AND... ""walked RA through" the information...

Possibly helping RA to process the information while being helped to understand...

Maybe my suggestion isn't how it is typically done...
But... I would think it could be a way for inmates to minimize the shock/triggers?

JMO...

 

[detectivewannab]

I think LE could have gotten a detailed confession out of RA if they had used a woman LE to conduct the interviews.

Interesting

 

[MiniMoo]

Are you also claiming these same folks knew Weber was traveling down this private drive within 15 minutes of the kidnapping?

IMO: If that FBI agent could testify we would likely know and also once BW is put on the stand this week we may get a better understanding.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[gremlin444]

I have seen it implied by people here discussing if he saw it in discovery about the white van or if he heard it in police interviews somehow.

Even if he did, he'd have to know the Weber's were out of town and his son would be coming over to water the plants. That seems unlikely for him or Wala to have known.

You know what's weird?

Right after one of the local papers/tv stations there updated their daily live blog after BW testified, I went and looked him up immediately (before the reports of his testimony went and clogged up the first 5 pages of Google results).

All the information on BW in terms of Abby & Libby's murders talked about that being his parents house, they were out of town, and he was checking on it.

However since he has appeared in this trial, I see no mention of the house belong to his parents and him just checking on it. Every news source calls it his house. Now, maybe his parents have died since then and he's currently living there/the owner, but what happened to the information about his mom owning it when the murders occurred?